are tires not made uniformly?

[y_p_w]

Of course tires aren't made uniformly. If you look, they come in different sizes and some even in different speed ratings for the same size. If you're reading reviews, people are putting them on different vehicles and those tires are often a different size.

I don't expect that the same model 15" tire on a base model Toyota Corolla is going to perform the same as a 17" version on a WRX.

 

[datech]

Even though they use the same mold each tire is laid up individually.

I usually find they are quiet and smooth when new then start getting noisier after 15-20k miles.

Even if they aren't perfectly smooth you might get many useful miles. I don't think that quiet and smooth are required for good traction, even though that's what we might like on a long highway trip.

 

[Lapham3]

I've had the same brand and type tires on two of my cars=Goodyear GT and the differences were in size and the country of manufacture. In this case, the US tires were fine, but those made in CHILE?!? were all out of round to some degree. Sometimes...well, you don't really know until they're on your car. Dan Mpls. Mn.

 

[tommygunn]

Continentals sure aren't!

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
When one reads a specific tire model reviews on Tire Rack they range from "the best tire I ever had" to the "the worst tire I ever had" and some in between. I understand that there are different sizes and cars and expectations, but some people talk about having tires worn out in under 20,000 or some other crazy stuff and some other people state "no wear at 20,000 miles." What is going on?

The reason I'm going through this reviews now, I'm not very pleased with the conti purecontacts I just got installed.


First, tire wear is highly variable. It depends on many things that are beyond the control of the tire manufacturer.

THEE single most thing that has an impact on tire wear is cornering. Most tire wear occurs in the cornering mode - and I use a metric I call "Turns per Mile" - that is, how many substantially 90° turns do you make in an average mile traveled. In my commute, mine was 1.1 - which I think is about average.

Another way to look at this is the difference between country driving and city driving - city driving being very rough on tire wear.

I've seen tires wear out in less than 10K miles - and the exact same tire go over 100K. The difference? The 100K tires spent most of their life on the interstate, while the 10K's were in-city delivery service.

So different people with have vastly different experiences on the same exact tire, just because of what they are doing with them.

Second, OE tires (that tires that come on a new car from the factory) are completely different from tires designed for sale in the replacement market - with OE tires being designed for good fuel economy (which they get by sacrificing wear and/or traction) and replacement tires being designed for good wear or traction (by sacrificing fuel economy).

Many people don't know that - and more importantly, expect the tires that come on their new car to be have good wear qualities (the opposite of reality). Needless to say, those folks write bad reviews.

Please note that this is a completely separate issue from being pleased (or not) about a new set of tires - which is part of your post.

Is it the ride, or the handling feel? Those things are part of the design and can vary all over the ballpark. But those properties have nothing to do with the quality of the tire - and everything to do with what the designer intended the tire to do.

Is it a vibration? Those things are a function of the consistency in manufacturing - and those are a "quality" issue.

 

[CapriRacer]

Oh, and I forgot to mention that OE tires are designed to the vehicle manufacturer's specifications - and each vehicle manufacturer will have a different set of specs. The net effect is that EVERY tire with a line will be different from every other tire in that same line. Sometimes that same size within a line will be supplied to different vehicles and each will be different.

So a tire supplied to BMW will be different than a tire supplied to GM or Ford, even though they are the same size and name. Needless to say, some will like what is supplied, and some won't.

 

[friendly_jacek]

CapriRacer, thanks for chiming in.

You made some good points on the OEM tires. I picked up on some of that when I noticed that some economy OEM tires were garbage in small sizes and decent in their SUV size.

The example I picked in my first post (the best/worse tire I ever had) were actual reviews on tire rack on conti pure contact on similar Mercedes sedans, so I assume similar size.

My problem is I'm comparing a brand new aftermarket tire to worn out LRR OEM tire and results are much worse, except for traction. The OEM tire was not a traction champion (and B-rated), but it was OK for most of my commuting. The OEM tires also lasted almost 40,000 miles (in mostly city driving with lots of cornering!), and I could've used them a bit longer, but got a sidewall damage and changed the whole set. There were very quiet and smooth riding the entire time. I kept pressure at about 40PSI.

The new continental tires have noticeable noise, some fine vibrations, and are vague rather than crisp in turns, even when pumped up to 50PSI. I also lost about 5-8 MPG, which amounts to about 10-15% in my prius. I expected some minor MPG loss, but not as much and the pure contacts are supposed to be "ecoplus" whatever that means.

Fortunately, I switched cars with my wife recently, so I'm not annoyed by them anymore. My girl feels no difference of course.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Here is another point that makes me think.

A recent review from prius driver:
Quote:
Superb tire for the Prius; very highly recommended. Replaced Bridgestone Ecopia EP20's, due to pothole caused damage, that came with the car when new. The PureContact tires are much better is every performance category. Noise is very good, and about equal to the EP20's. Fuel economy has stayed the same; a great feature IMO given the tremendous improvement in traction and handling.

The Continental's are just great in all types of rain with zero hydroplaning&; tested up to 85 MPH on the highway. Dry traction and handling capability is beyond what the Prius can generate. Road feel is excellent, connected without being overly "twitchy". Road impacts, large and small, are felt but well dampened such that it makes for a very pleasant ride.

We use dedicated winter tires so only got a few days in April snow storms to evaluate snow and ice traction. For an all season tire, I was very pleased at the traction level. Starting and stoping in a few inches of snow were no problem at all. Turning stability was excellent at reasonable speeds. Ice traction can't match our winter tires but, with the aid of traction control and ABS, the tires got the car moving and stopped just fine on icy patches.

So far, the Continental's have been very impressive and a huge upgrade compared to the OEM tires.


I also went from EP20 to pure contacts and the new tires feel much worse. This is why I'm thinking tires from deeply discounted internet places may be a defective batch (and hard to return).

 

[Lapham3]

I remember that 'blem' tires were sold when I worked at the tire shop-sposed to be cosmetic issues. As white letters tires were just coming out, I think funky lettering was a big part of that.
I have a '05 Elantra where the original gal owner had all maint done at the dealer (even a Hyundai marked battery replacement). The replacement BFG Traction T/A tires were in the OE 195/60-15 size and 87T that are DIRECTIONAL. I thought what-on this type car?? Turns out Hyundai only and expensive/hard to find. As I found a small sidewall bubble on one and wanted it off the car. The tires are near the end at 35K miles, so I'm changing them all. Dan Mpls. Mn.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
........This is why I'm thinking tires from deeply discounted internet places may be a defective batch (and hard to return).


Please don't think of tires as being produced in "batches". While the process is discrete - that is, there are individual products - and a particular size/pattern might be produced this week and not next week - it isn't like making a cake where it is sliced into individual slices and sold as slices and each cake is different or there are "batches" of cakes.

Tires are made sort of like cars. There are individual components that are assembled and processed and while there may be variations, it isn't like you can distinguish a "batch".

Besides, I really think most of the differences in consumer reviews of tires has to do with where the reviewer is coming from and what his expectations are. I remember a guy giving a terrible review for the snow traction of a highly rated all season tire - just after the worst snow storm in 10 years. I don't think that problem was the tire.

Also, road surface texture varies all over the map. Since road surface texture affects wear, noise, and traction, it shouldn't be a surprise that some tires do well in certain places and not in others.

 

[The Critic]

This is a random thought - have you tried wire brushing the rotor hat and the back of the wheel (mounting area) to remove any built-up rust.

 

[camrydriver111]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Johnny248
What are you unhappy about with the Conti's? Those PureContacts are nice tires.


That's what I thought based on the CR and the reviews I read.
There is tire singing/humming noise at low speeds 20-40 mph and the car doesn't feel smooth anymore, especially at higher speeds. Some vibrations are felt in steering wheel (higher frequency than simple out of balance) and handling is not very precise. Now, I have only about 100 miles on them and some of that could be break-in, but I have a feeling noise and vibrations are going to get worse with age.

In got them on a huge discount from Discount Tires. Could it be a defective batch or improper storage? Mine are made in France and not the ones made in Mexico. I even checked if they were installed correctly, sides are labeled inside/outside.

90% of reviews say the tires are very quiet, but about 10% say noisy, so I think there must be some variation there.


Did you figure out what the problem was Jacek? I'm having similar problems with my PureContacts. Mine are made in USA btw.

 

[oilmaven]

I have a set of the PureContacts on the Suzuki...about 15,000 miles on them. I bought them based on the glowing reviews on Tire Rack. Although very quiet at first, I'm noticing increased tire noise already...also, they aren't great in the snow (contrary to the ratings)from my experience. Ride and handling is OK and they seem to be wearing well but overall I'm disappointed with the tires and will buy something else when its time.