My rental this time is a 2013 focus Se with the automatic. I actually can't stand the car. To be honest the transmission is horrible. The car with a stick is a blast with the automatic it's actually very frustrating to drive. Sometimes I would swear the transmission has a mind of its own. That being said the transmission does a lot better when you are beating the snot out of it. When you get on it it shifts aggressively but actually kind of inspiring but at low speed average take offs it's harsh and lurches some times. It's fun if you like beating on your car. But for a daily commuter this car is all but absolutely terrible. It would be very hard next to impossible to live with this car on a day to day basis. Anyone else share my opinions on this?
Ford focus dual clutch transmission
- Thread starter ram_man
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I rented an automatic model ( Not sure if it was the SE ) and in bumper to bumper commuting trafic, it was ok. Stopping every block or so is not really fun in any car.
They are having big problems with the clutch shuddering on take-off on these. Ford has already extended the warranty on the unit. The internal seals leak and contaminate the clutch.
My dad is having all sorts of shuddering issues with his 2013 Focus as well. He can't stand the car because of it. I've been in it a few times and I saw what he meant. It was really awkward.
Supposedly there are software updates to fix the harsh shifting.
Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_PowerShift_transmission
The PowerShift gearbox is a joint development between Ford, Getrag and Luk and was first introduced in Europe. Both Volvo and Ford use wet clutches and hydraulic actuation. However, the new PowerShift gearbox used in the Ford Fiesta and Ford Focus uses dry clutches and electric motor/solenoid actuation. Some have criticized the PowerShift's rough starts and lack of smooth shifting, but Ford has continually released (but not publicized) upgrades to transmission software and firmware designed to address these concerns.
I'm not sure how the updates are received. Tesla sends regular updates via WiFi or cellular.
Found an article that explains it. It's supposed to be brought in for servicing, and they apply the updates when it's in.
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/...=blogs&_r=0
Still - you can read the comments (latest from 2013) and there are complaints about grinding gears and bucking.
Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_PowerShift_transmission
The PowerShift gearbox is a joint development between Ford, Getrag and Luk and was first introduced in Europe. Both Volvo and Ford use wet clutches and hydraulic actuation. However, the new PowerShift gearbox used in the Ford Fiesta and Ford Focus uses dry clutches and electric motor/solenoid actuation. Some have criticized the PowerShift's rough starts and lack of smooth shifting, but Ford has continually released (but not publicized) upgrades to transmission software and firmware designed to address these concerns.
I'm not sure how the updates are received. Tesla sends regular updates via WiFi or cellular.
Found an article that explains it. It's supposed to be brought in for servicing, and they apply the updates when it's in.
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/...=blogs&_r=0
Still - you can read the comments (latest from 2013) and there are complaints about grinding gears and bucking.
A problem with automated dry clutches IMO is that the friction of the clutches changes with temperature, glazing and possibly other factors, so the computer is constantly learning (both clutches). In order to first find out the friction characteristic has changed, a bad shift using the old values must first occur. It can then apply the new values (rate of engagement) afterward, until the clutch friction changes again, only to repeat the process.
The dry clutch friction characteristic, I suspect, varies more frequently than a wet clutch in a slushbox, which is mostly affected by ATF FM, where shift feedback really only changes suddenly with a fluid change and slowly via subsequent fluid degradation. DCT is very inconsistent in comparison
Best bet for a quickly modulating and unpredictable right foot? Abandon the automatic and use Manual mode.
The dry clutch friction characteristic, I suspect, varies more frequently than a wet clutch in a slushbox, which is mostly affected by ATF FM, where shift feedback really only changes suddenly with a fluid change and slowly via subsequent fluid degradation. DCT is very inconsistent in comparison
Best bet for a quickly modulating and unpredictable right foot? Abandon the automatic and use Manual mode.
If the car has pronounced clutch chatter at launch, odds are very high the cutch has been contaminated with transmission oil because of leaking seals. This is often accompanied by a visible leak between the gearbox and engine when viewed from beneath. The solution is replacement of the offending seals with an improved version.
In addition, a number of software updates have been made, all of which smooth out the DCT's behavior.
Rental car companies are not likely to bring the car in for service as long as it moves. And ThirdeYe, remove the aeroshield on th bottom of the engine compartment and take a look for leaks. Even if none exist, have your father take it in to a competent Ford dealer for repair - these can be made to work well, and most do.
In addition, a number of software updates have been made, all of which smooth out the DCT's behavior.
Rental car companies are not likely to bring the car in for service as long as it moves. And ThirdeYe, remove the aeroshield on th bottom of the engine compartment and take a look for leaks. Even if none exist, have your father take it in to a competent Ford dealer for repair - these can be made to work well, and most do.
Originally Posted By: Danh
If the car has pronounced clutch chatter at launch, odds are very high the cutch has been contaminated with transmission oil because of leaking seals. This is often accompanied by a visible leak between the gearbox and engine when viewed from beneath. The solution is replacement of the offending seals with an improved version.
In addition, a number of software updates have been made, all of which smooth out the DCT's behavior.
Rental car companies are not likely to bring the car in for service as long as it moves. And ThirdeYe, remove the aeroshield on th bottom of the engine compartment and take a look for leaks. Even if none exist, have your father take it in to a competent Ford dealer for repair - these can be made to work well, and most do.
DanH, thanks I'll take a look. He took it to the dealership last year and they claimed it was "normal" for a dual clutch transmission to shudder the way his was.
If the car has pronounced clutch chatter at launch, odds are very high the cutch has been contaminated with transmission oil because of leaking seals. This is often accompanied by a visible leak between the gearbox and engine when viewed from beneath. The solution is replacement of the offending seals with an improved version.
In addition, a number of software updates have been made, all of which smooth out the DCT's behavior.
Rental car companies are not likely to bring the car in for service as long as it moves. And ThirdeYe, remove the aeroshield on th bottom of the engine compartment and take a look for leaks. Even if none exist, have your father take it in to a competent Ford dealer for repair - these can be made to work well, and most do.
DanH, thanks I'll take a look. He took it to the dealership last year and they claimed it was "normal" for a dual clutch transmission to shudder the way his was.
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
The Beetle has a DSG transmission, extremely annoying in traffic (which I'm in everyday) and it kind of whips you around lol but that's how it's been since new.
Originally Posted By: ThirdeYe
Originally Posted By: Danh
If the car has pronounced clutch chatter at launch, odds are very high the cutch has been contaminated with transmission oil because of leaking seals. This is often accompanied by a visible leak between the gearbox and engine when viewed from beneath. The solution is replacement of the offending seals with an improved version.
In addition, a number of software updates have been made, all of which smooth out the DCT's behavior.
Rental car companies are not likely to bring the car in for service as long as it moves. And ThirdeYe, remove the aeroshield on th bottom of the engine compartment and take a look for leaks. Even if none exist, have your father take it in to a competent Ford dealer for repair - these can be made to work well, and most do.
DanH, thanks I'll take a look. He took it to the dealership last year and they claimed it was "normal" for a dual clutch transmission to shudder the way his was.
It's not. The old TSB number was 14-0047, there is a new one, but I don't have the number handy. Mine is much improved with the new seals/clutch and programming, and overall it's much improved, but as the clutch has worn in, takeoff is starting to revert to slightly less desireable characteristics, and I'm considering taking it back in for the latest update. With the latest TSB in addition to updated software, is also the latest revision of the clutch pack (rev E, or F I think) Take it in and tell them it has severe clutch chatter. Any dealership service dept should be very familiar with this procedure.
Originally Posted By: Danh
If the car has pronounced clutch chatter at launch, odds are very high the cutch has been contaminated with transmission oil because of leaking seals. This is often accompanied by a visible leak between the gearbox and engine when viewed from beneath. The solution is replacement of the offending seals with an improved version.
In addition, a number of software updates have been made, all of which smooth out the DCT's behavior.
Rental car companies are not likely to bring the car in for service as long as it moves. And ThirdeYe, remove the aeroshield on th bottom of the engine compartment and take a look for leaks. Even if none exist, have your father take it in to a competent Ford dealer for repair - these can be made to work well, and most do.
DanH, thanks I'll take a look. He took it to the dealership last year and they claimed it was "normal" for a dual clutch transmission to shudder the way his was.
It's not. The old TSB number was 14-0047, there is a new one, but I don't have the number handy. Mine is much improved with the new seals/clutch and programming, and overall it's much improved, but as the clutch has worn in, takeoff is starting to revert to slightly less desireable characteristics, and I'm considering taking it back in for the latest update. With the latest TSB in addition to updated software, is also the latest revision of the clutch pack (rev E, or F I think) Take it in and tell them it has severe clutch chatter. Any dealership service dept should be very familiar with this procedure.
Other than getting confused creeping along in a parking lot, I liked it better than a slushbox!
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: ram_man
MThat being said the transmission does a lot better when you are beating the snot out of it. When you get on it it shifts aggressively but actually kind of inspiring but at low speed average take offs it's harsh and lurches some times. It's fun if you like beating on your car. But for a daily commuter this car is all but absolutely terrible. It would be very hard next to impossible to live with this car on a day to day basis. Anyone else share my opinions on this?
My findings exactly. If youre really trying for sporty, fastest shifting every time, its OK. But the lack of a readily accessible neutral position, and lack of real control to select gearing makes for less economical (I always beat EPA highway numbers) and more annoying operations.
MThat being said the transmission does a lot better when you are beating the snot out of it. When you get on it it shifts aggressively but actually kind of inspiring but at low speed average take offs it's harsh and lurches some times. It's fun if you like beating on your car. But for a daily commuter this car is all but absolutely terrible. It would be very hard next to impossible to live with this car on a day to day basis. Anyone else share my opinions on this?
My findings exactly. If youre really trying for sporty, fastest shifting every time, its OK. But the lack of a readily accessible neutral position, and lack of real control to select gearing makes for less economical (I always beat EPA highway numbers) and more annoying operations.
It probably needs the pseudo rebuild, and TCM reflash
I posted earlier this year on a back-to-back experience of renting a Mazda3 and a Focus. The dual clutch tranny pretty much ruined the entire experience w/the Focus. Otherwise, a pretty nice car but the transmission was an embarrassment. Seriously, I can't understand how a new car could actually be that bad or make it into production. I thought there was just something wrong with my rental car, but when I checked on the Google, turns out it wasn't just me...
Supposedly it learns your driving habits and becomes better--but what if multiple people drive the car or you disconnect your battery? Regardless, it was terrible. Meanwhile the 6 speed in the Mazda 3 was the best stepped auto I've ever driven. I generally hate stepped auto transmissions, and I could definitely live with that one.
Supposedly it learns your driving habits and becomes better--but what if multiple people drive the car or you disconnect your battery? Regardless, it was terrible. Meanwhile the 6 speed in the Mazda 3 was the best stepped auto I've ever driven. I generally hate stepped auto transmissions, and I could definitely live with that one.
This makes me nervous. Very happy with old school, third pedal, clutch...
To each, their own though.
To each, their own though.
is Ford using CVT like Honda & Toyota are in their civic & corolla respectively?
CVT vs Dual Clutch Automatic Transmission, what is more reliable? I guess as far as economy cars go, I'm not talking about sports or super cars.
a family member has the 14 corolla with CVT, its absolutely amazing, 40mpg city driving for my cuzin so far, she doesn't go on the highway as there is no need for her and she is not easy on the car by any means.
CVT vs Dual Clutch Automatic Transmission, what is more reliable? I guess as far as economy cars go, I'm not talking about sports or super cars.
a family member has the 14 corolla with CVT, its absolutely amazing, 40mpg city driving for my cuzin so far, she doesn't go on the highway as there is no need for her and she is not easy on the car by any means.
My daughter bought one of these new. She got almost 50,000 on it now. Seals/clutches replaced (twice by different dealers) and every program update available. It's better but still not right. Chatters, noisy, rough shifts ete. etc... I think Ford's "better idea light bulb burnt out on this one.
I don't reallly blame them for trying. I place it on the stupid EPA and CAFE regulations. (yeah I know, not supposed to "get political". This'll probably get pulled. But that's my feeling on it...........
I don't reallly blame them for trying. I place it on the stupid EPA and CAFE regulations. (yeah I know, not supposed to "get political". This'll probably get pulled. But that's my feeling on it...........
Originally Posted By: 01_celica_gt
is Ford using CVT like Honda & Toyota are in their civic & corolla respectively?
CVT vs Dual Clutch Automatic Transmission, what is more reliable? I guess as far as economy cars go, I'm not talking about sports or super cars.
a family member has the 14 corolla with CVT, its absolutely amazing, 40mpg city driving for my cuzin so far, she doesn't go on the highway as there is no need for her and she is not easy on the car by any means.
Compared to what CVT?
Ford DCT vs Nissan CVT - The Ford DCT does strange things, but they can make 100K easily. Nissan CVTs can't make it 100K without failing.
Ford DCT vs Subaru CVT - Subaru seems to have a reliable CVT.
Honda and Toyota are too new to the game with US models.
Ford is using the DCT on their two smallest models and conventional automatics on everything Fusion and bigger.
is Ford using CVT like Honda & Toyota are in their civic & corolla respectively?
CVT vs Dual Clutch Automatic Transmission, what is more reliable? I guess as far as economy cars go, I'm not talking about sports or super cars.
a family member has the 14 corolla with CVT, its absolutely amazing, 40mpg city driving for my cuzin so far, she doesn't go on the highway as there is no need for her and she is not easy on the car by any means.
Compared to what CVT?
Ford DCT vs Nissan CVT - The Ford DCT does strange things, but they can make 100K easily. Nissan CVTs can't make it 100K without failing.
Ford DCT vs Subaru CVT - Subaru seems to have a reliable CVT.
Honda and Toyota are too new to the game with US models.
Ford is using the DCT on their two smallest models and conventional automatics on everything Fusion and bigger.
an MTX is my first choice but Ford's DCTs I have driven were way better than any slushbox. Once you understand there "is" a clutch and use the throttle accordingly, they drive fantastic.
Yes, there have been some leaking issues that contaminate clutch plates but I haven't ran into those.
Yes, there have been some leaking issues that contaminate clutch plates but I haven't ran into those.
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