Engine rebuild durability?

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: Jim_Truett
Your symptoms sound exactly like the 2002 civic I just worked on. The compression test was 190 psi across the board, but showed 95% leak down on 3 and 4. The gasket was compromised between 3 and 4 and also seeped coolant into the chambers when it was hot and pressurized.

Do a leak down test and post up the results.

190 psi across the board with 95% leak down?

 

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
In 2006, at 175k miles the engine overheated and warped the head and caused head gasket leak, or the other way around I'm not sure. A reputable mechanic that many of my friends use rebuild the top end for $1k (about half is labor and half is part). The job include milling the head flat, measuring all dimensions and replace all gaskets and seal in the head. The head gasket was leaking between cyl 3 and 4 as well as between the cylinder and the coolant area.


What you're describing is not a full engine rebuild; that was just a cylinder head rebuild.


For $1000 they did not get a full rebuild.

For $1000 to go another 75K miles seems reasonable to me.

 

[zzyzzx]

If it matters, I have over 151K on a Jasper engine that I had installed ~2002

 

[Jim_Truett]

Originally Posted By: Trav

190 psi across the board with 95% leak down?


Yep. I had to do it twice because I didn't believe it either. It also drove perfectly and idled perfectly. The main symptom was extremely rough idle on a hot start, with a slowly dropping coolant level in the reservoir.

 

[Trav]

Wow thats crazy, at least you found it.

 

[fdcg27]

Yep, this would be the most cost-effective repair, should the existing engine actually turn out to be toast.
A proper diagnosis by a good old-school Honda indie would be money well spent.
I bought a JDM engine once and had good service from it.
It was quite dirty for a 35K engine with a solid compression test, but it cleaned up nicely with no more than a few 3K oil changes.
It ran for well beyond another 100K, at which point it died because the guy I sold it to didn't bother to change the timing belt.
The car was an '86 Civic Wagon, one of two that we owned back in the day.
Great car, incidentally and I'd buy one today if available over something like the comparatively bloated, overweight Fit, which also has less interior volume and inferior fuel economy in actual use. Doesn't shift or handle as well either. The mid-eighties Civics were in many ways the peak of Honda design.
I feel a little strange with an Accord weighing another ton and a half.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Jim_Truett
Originally Posted By: Trav

190 psi across the board with 95% leak down?


Yep. I had to do it twice because I didn't believe it either. It also drove perfectly and idled perfectly. The main symptom was extremely rough idle on a hot start, with a slowly dropping coolant level in the reservoir.



Just did the compression test this morning with my neighbor helping me turn the key. The result is like this as well: 190-190-200-190 (the 200 may be blip, but you can probably say it is close enough?).

Drove perfectly and idle perfectly unless on a hot start, and "slowly dropping coolant level".

I'll do a coolant pressure test tonight and see what's going on.

 

[cptbarkey]

check the oil, is it chocolate milk, or swirley? bubbling coolant in the overflow? white smoke out the tailpipe?

 

[AKhan87]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Yep, this would be the most cost-effective repair, should the existing engine actually turn out to be toast.
A proper diagnosis by a good old-school Honda indie would be money well spent.
I bought a JDM engine once and had good service from it.
It was quite dirty for a 35K engine with a solid compression test, but it cleaned up nicely with no more than a few 3K oil changes.
It ran for well beyond another 100K, at which point it died because the guy I sold it to didn't bother to change the timing belt.
The car was an '86 Civic Wagon, one of two that we owned back in the day.
Great car, incidentally and I'd buy one today if available over something like the comparatively bloated, overweight Fit, which also has less interior volume and inferior fuel economy in actual use. Doesn't shift or handle as well either. The mid-eighties Civics were in many ways the peak of Honda design.
I feel a little strange with an Accord weighing another ton and a half.

The JDM i got from HMotors was spotless inside, as if someone had steam cleaned the inside, not even a spec of oil in there, valve cover was removed to verify what I saw through the oil fill hole.

 

[PandaBear]

So I popped open the radiator cap tonight and try to use the Autozone Motorad MT-300 to test the cooling system.

There's a vacuum inside the cooling system and I hear a slurping sound as soon as I started to twist and open it. The rubber plunger doesn't seem to slide too smoothly, I had to push it a few times to smooth it out. The recovery tank coolant amount is at full mark, but I had to fill about 1/2 or more quart into the radiator before it is full (that doesn't include starting the engine to include any thermostat cycling to burb it yet).

The radiator cap (replaced in 2008, it was a South Korean made Gate 16 psi) was last opened 10k miles ago when I flush the coolant and the radiator was replaced in 2009 (CSF plastic tank).

Unfortunately Autozone's cooling system pressure tester does not have the right adapter for the car (the adapter for the filler neck or the cap is too big) and I couldn't test the cooling system pressure tonight.

What could it be now?

 

[Trav]

It sounds like the cap has a bad vacuum check valve, start by replacing the cap and a full cooling system.
If its holding a vacuum its looking more doubtful that the engine has a blown head gasket.

The wonky cap just did a sort of Mickey Mouse pressure test for you. Get a cap from the dealer, the aftermarket ones cant be trusted.
If the cap has a bad check valve who knows what else is wrong with it, the system could have been over pressured.

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^I wonder if everyone here knows how important the cap is. It rarely fails, but they do wear out over time.

And if not replaced with OEM then they are TWICE as suspect IMO...

 

[PandaBear]

So with a new cap the problem remains. I called a few mechanics referred by my track going friends that does a lot of rebuild (including 1 that rebuild it last time).

Options:

1) Top end rebuild with original parts.
Estimate on the same rebuild on the same head, if all is good and within service limit, is $1200 after 8 years of inflation (instead of $1000).

2) Top end rebuild with a lower mile junkyard head.
Around $1300

3) Swap in a lower mile (around 90k) junkyard motor, no rebuild.
Around $1500

Consider the car is worth $1400-$4500 depends on the condition (running or not). I'm not going to spend $3000 to rebuild a junkyard motor top and bottom end. It is still cheaper than scrapping this car or trading it in for another car (not driving much these days and we have another family hauler already).

Which option makes the most sense?

 

[Trav]

What about this one? It shouldn't cost much more than $300 to get it to you by truck.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-B18B-Dohc-1-...=p2054897.l5663

You will possibly end up just using it as a long block because of the CA emissions but the price (if they don't bid it to the moon) and miles are good, looks clean too.
How did the cylinder leak down test go?

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Trav
What about this one? It shouldn't cost much more than $300 to get it to you by truck.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-B18B-Dohc-1-...=p2054897.l5663

You will possibly end up just using it as a long block because of the CA emissions but the price (if they don't bid it to the moon) and miles are good, looks clean too.
How did the cylinder leak down test go?


$700 + $400 delivery + labor to install is about $1500, no?

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Swap in a lower mile (around 90k) junkyard motor, no rebuild.
Around $1500, no?

90K vs 45K big difference yes!

 

[AKhan87]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Swap in a lower mile (around 90k) junkyard motor, no rebuild.
Around $1500, no?

90K vs 45K big difference yes!

I agree with Trav, my last ZC motor from Hmotors was in "mint"(obviously subjective) condition, I would open up the replacement motor and redo all the seals before putting it in and your good to go.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Man, I guess I am just getting too old.

We replace an occasional motor around here these days. But back in the old daze we did a lot of that sort of thing.

NO WAY any used junkyard motor is going into any car I actually like. It's too much work to be disappointed later when that tiny galled spot on the cam chews up a lifter, or that rust flake flies off and buggers up something.

Same amount of work nets me a nice rebuilt motor I can be confident will last longer than a new one...

 

[spackard]

I just don't like the Integra with an auto. If it was a manual I'd say rebuild it.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Man, I guess I am just getting too old.

We replace an occasional motor around here these days. But back in the old daze we did a lot of that sort of thing.

NO WAY any used junkyard motor is going into any car I actually like. It's too much work to be disappointed later when that tiny galled spot on the cam chews up a lifter, or that rust flake flies off and buggers up something.

Same amount of work nets me a nice rebuilt motor I can be confident will last longer than a new one...


I know where you coming from but unfortunately a lot of these new engines don't lend themselves to easy rebuilding.
Qualified and talented machinist are getting scarcer by the day, thats why we see so many crate engines now.

Old iron engines got better with age, the iron got better with time but a lot of this aluminum stuff cracks with time and use, some heads are just throw away items today.