Euro Oil.....Why?

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I hate to point out that 5w30 is by far the most common oil spec in Europe.

And petrol is around $10/11 for a gallon (Not US gallon)

All Ford apart from the Ka and some high performance models use 5w30 (reduced HTHS) and have done so since the 90s.

Jaguars and Land Rovers use a mix of 5w30 for the diesels and 5W20 for the 5.0 V8, not surprising really as the V8 is a US Ford lump i believe.

My wifes Clio specs a -w40 but it is a 2006 model, the same engine in later DPF equipped models is 5w30.

The 2.2 ecotec as fitted to many cars in the US is another good example.

The engine isn't widely used in Europe but is fitted to the BiLs Vauxhall Vectra that spec either 5w30 or 5w40 and i have used both in it over the last 3 yrs.

Fuel economy and performance have been unchanged on both.

My diesel Pathfinder can be filled with 5w30 or 5w40 (C3) but in non DPF can be filled with A5/B5 as an experiment i used 5w30 Mobil Super 3000 X1 FE A5/B5 as it has Saps as low as a C3 oil.

I got a very slight economy improvement, 0.2mpg on the read out over several month.

My Pathfinder is a 2008

Out of interest i did a check on the Morris oil site for Golfs from around the 2009/2010 era, specifically the 2.0tdi

It specced a 5w30 in both.

Saying all European cars use -w40 oil is as accurate as saying all of the US has a blanket 55mph speed limit.

Yes it may have has some truth in it.

But is not really accurate since the 90s
 
Well I'm 35 years old and can't remember a car being spec'd for 20w-50 in moderate climate of Europe. Sure there were some exceptions like M cars and some Alfas, but normal grade in 90s were 10w40 and that went down to 5W40 with introduction of cheap HC oils in early 2000.
When Euro 5 norm came about 5W30 oils started to be specified for most petrol and diesel engines.
I think we don't use 0W20 because we don't have cars that could operate with them. There are almost no NA bigger engines in Euro market, all are turbo and some that are NA are quite rev happy and have to do hard in a heavy car of today.
So in reality there is no big difference between NA and Europe, maybe only a grade.
 
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Would be interesting to know what oilweight Volvo recommends in U.S
Here in Sweden i use 0w30 ACEA A5/B5 as recommended in our XC90 D5 -08 and V70 D5 -06 on earlier models up to 2005 5w40 SM/CF ACEA A3/B3 was the recommended weight.
Our Tahoe 5,7 1996 and Suburban 5,3 2003 i use 5w30 as recommended.

Looks like Europé is late to accept new tecnology. For an example Volvo made the U.S speced cars for export with catalytic converter from 1976 but it took to 1986-1987 until we started to use it on cars here in Sweden.
I cant se any 0w20 oil in stores here in Sweden and even 0w30 is hard to find.
 
You just need to have owned a car from the era when you were either just a gleam in your father's eye or were too young to drive.
20W-50 was widely recommended for many Euro cars up through the mid 'nineties.
As I noted above in this thread, the OM of my old BMW recommends this grade for temps from -10C to 50C. 10W-40 is recommended from -30C to 15C, so was not considered suitable for hot weather.
The only reson that our old W201 got 20W-50 summers and 10W-40 winters is that the OM recommended those grades for the ambient temperatures encountered.
Another point of confusion is that many Euro makers today recommend oil by a certification met and not by grade.
It is coincidental that many makers selling cars here have certs that build upon the A3/B4 requirements, with the result being that the oils recommended are either thick thirty grades or forty grades with minimum HTHSV well beyond what almost all American and Asian designs have recommended for them.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You just need to have owned a car from the era when you were either just a gleam in your father's eye or were too young to drive.
20W-50 was widely recommended for many Euro cars up through the mid 'nineties.
As I noted above in this thread, the OM of my old BMW recommends this grade for temps from -10C to 50C. 10W-40 is recommended from -30C to 15C, so was not considered suitable for hot weather.
The only reson that our old W201 got 20W-50 summers and 10W-40 winters is that the OM recommended those grades for the ambient temperatures encountered.
Another point of confusion is that many Euro makers today recommend oil by a certification met and not by grade.
It is coincidental that many makers selling cars here have certs that build upon the A3/B4 requirements, with the result being that the oils recommended are either thick thirty grades or forty grades with minimum HTHSV well beyond what almost all American and Asian designs have recommended for them.


+1 here...

My old Chevy Vega would go 750 miles on a quart of Castrol GTX 20W-50.

Everything else was a 400 mile fix.

I had to go to the local import parts place to buy the extra thick Castrol in my little town.

Thank goodness because I picked up a copy of Autoweek there and discovered European sports cars.
 
Originally Posted By: V70tdi
For an example Volvo made the U.S speced cars for export with catalytic converter from 1976 but it took to 1986-1987 until we started to use it on cars here in Sweden.

For whatever reason, Volvo in North America has always been (or at least marketed themselves) as ahead of the curve on emissions controls. With respect to catalytic converters, 1976 was way ahead of most of the North American market.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You just need to have owned a car from the era when you were either just a gleam in your father's eye or were too young to drive.
20W-50 was widely recommended for many Euro cars up through the mid 'nineties.
As I noted above in this thread, the OM of my old BMW recommends this grade for temps from -10C to 50C. 10W-40 is recommended from -30C to 15C, so was not considered suitable for hot weather.
The only reson that our old W201 got 20W-50 summers and 10W-40 winters is that the OM recommended those grades for the ambient temperatures encountered.
Another point of confusion is that many Euro makers today recommend oil by a certification met and not by grade.
It is coincidental that many makers selling cars here have certs that build upon the A3/B4 requirements, with the result being that the oils recommended are either thick thirty grades or forty grades with minimum HTHSV well beyond what almost all American and Asian designs have recommended for them.



I will defer to your more indepth knowledge of what oils have been specced for European cars whilst operated in Europe.

And don't confuse Eastern Europe with Western Europe they are very different beasts despite what the EU and their federalist agenda might make you think.

And i can say with good consicience that i have never owned or used a car that specced 20w50.

Even my 1966 Austin A40 didn't spec 20w50.From memory it was 15w40 and i am certain i used either Duckhams or GTX.

My 1979 Allegro didn't spec 20w50 that i know, again it got 15w40 from memory.

You are aware that there are more countries in Europe than Germany?

France, Spain and the UK have also built cars for many years.

I am not saying 20w50 has never been specced but which cars are you referring to?

Engineers in Europe are not stupid.

And the British managed to be the only country to develop a proper vertical take off and landing plane.

And in partnership with France the only ever supersonic passenger aircraft.

With an extremely good safety record. And don't be surprised if it flys again after the political moves to stop it flying are reversed.

If you actually mean many German cars spec 20w50 them say so.

Germany is not Europe it is Germany.
 
You are both right to a point. First it's not true that 20w50 was recommended to mid 90s, that was in 70s and good part of 80s. I'm not that young to not know what was recommended in 90s. I discussed this with my dad (guy was quite a petrol head when young) and man said 15w40 was most common grade for normal cars of that era.
But he also mentioned that some of his cars used 10w50 or 20w50 like Alfa 1750 Berlina, Fiat 125 TC and R8 Gordini.But we have warm whether here so I'm not sure what was spec'd in colder climate.
 
Originally Posted By: bigjl
[Deletia]

And the British managed to be the only country to develop a proper vertical take off and landing plane.

And in partnership with France the only ever supersonic passenger aircraft.

With an extremely good safety record. And don't be surprised if it flys again after the political moves to stop it flying are reversed.

While it's true that the british managed to develop a VTOL aircraft, that is the ONLY virtue of the Harrier. It has the worst safety and reliability record of any "modern" military aircraft. It has terrible range. It requires an excessively inordinate amount of maintenance. Many pilots have died in Harriers. The sooner they are all scrapped, the better.

As for the Concorde flying again, dream on. It will never happen. The crash was the straw that broke the camel's back. The aircraft was not economically viable before the crash and it's much less so now, considering that many airlines are reducing and/or eliminating their first class. BAC and Aerospatiale are not the only ones who could develop such an aircraft. The reason no one else developed one is because the market was so small, it was not economical for anyone else to develop an SST.

Really, I can't help but wonder what does any of that have to do with oil?
 
Originally Posted By: SilverC6

Thank goodness because I picked up a copy of Autoweek there and discovered European sports cars.


In the early 1970's my grandmother had a next door neighbor with a 383 Charger, a Fiat 124 Coupe, and a Porsche Speedster in his garage. He gave me his Autoweek back issues. I also happened upon the April 1968 issue of Car and Driver that contained fellow Kentuckian David E Davis Jr.'s article "Turn Your Hymnals to 2002." After that it was all over...
 
Originally Posted By: MCompact

In the early 1970's my grandmother had a next door neighbor with a 383 Charger, a Fiat 124 Coupe, and a Porsche Speedster in his garage. He gave me his Autoweek back issues. I also happened upon the April 1968 issue of Car and Driver that contained fellow Kentuckian David E Davis Jr.'s article "Turn Your Hymnals to 2002." After that it was all over...


The independent imports parts dealer I frequented would sell you the current Autoweek but then let you grab all the back issues that you wanted.

Road and Track and Car and Driver replaced my Hot Rod and Car Craft subscriptions.

Every month was an adventure, right down to the R&T Stan Mott's Cyclops and Mini Moke cartoons.

I tell my two sons that I owe my modest career success/motivation to a 1975 vintage R&T classified for a '67 Ferrari 275 GTB/4 long nose for $14,500.
 
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: SilverC6

Thank goodness because I picked up a copy of Autoweek there and discovered European sports cars.


In the early 1970's my grandmother had a next door neighbor with a 383 Charger, a Fiat 124 Coupe, and a Porsche Speedster in his garage. He gave me his Autoweek back issues. I also happened upon the April 1968 issue of Car and Driver that contained fellow Kentuckian David E Davis Jr.'s article "Turn Your Hymnals to 2002." After that it was all over...


OT, but for you guy's that are into classic cars I find Classic & Sports Car and Ruoteclassiche to be great read, although second magazine is in Italian.
 
I subscribe to-among other mags-Thoroughbred and Classic Cars; it is excellent if a bit pricey.
 
So what you are all saying is; it is not because of the extremely loose tolerance engines from Europe as opposed to the ultra refined and high precision engines from the USA?

28.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Michael_P
So what you are all saying is; it is not because of the extremely loose tolerance engines from Europe as opposed to the ultra refined and high precision engines from the USA?

28.gif




No....

It's apples and oranges.
 
Originally Posted By: bimmerdriver
Originally Posted By: bigjl
[Deletia]

And the British managed to be the only country to develop a proper vertical take off and landing plane.

And in partnership with France the only ever supersonic passenger aircraft.

With an extremely good safety record. And don't be surprised if it flys again after the political moves to stop it flying are reversed.

While it's true that the british managed to develop a VTOL aircraft, that is the ONLY virtue of the Harrier. It has the worst safety and reliability record of any "modern" military aircraft. It has terrible range. It requires an excessively inordinate amount of maintenance. Many pilots have died in Harriers. The sooner they are all scrapped, the better.

As for the Concorde flying again, dream on. It will never happen. The crash was the straw that broke the camel's back. The aircraft was not economically viable before the crash and it's much less so now, considering that many airlines are reducing and/or eliminating their first class. BAC and Aerospatiale are not the only ones who could develop such an aircraft. The reason no one else developed one is because the market was so small, it was not economical for anyone else to develop an SST.

Really, I can't help but wonder what does any of that have to do with oil?


+1

Also should point out that the Tupolev TU-144 was a non British passenger supersonic aircraft.

And there are plenty of other "proper" VTOL planes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTOL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_VTOL_aircraft
 
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: SilverC6

Thank goodness because I picked up a copy of Autoweek there and discovered European sports cars.


In the early 1970's my grandmother had a next door neighbor with a 383 Charger, a Fiat 124 Coupe, and a Porsche Speedster in his garage. He gave me his Autoweek back issues. I also happened upon the April 1968 issue of Car and Driver that contained fellow Kentuckian David E Davis Jr.'s article "Turn Your Hymnals to 2002." After that it was all over...


I'm the other way. Had a 914-6 when I was just a kid, my first track rat. A parade of 911's and a couple of 924/944's. Two BMW's and a Merc or two.

Then I ditched them all for American iron. Still do well at the track even in a 4 door sedan. My old Vettes were cheap and easy to make very competitive.

Nothing wrong with change, I'll have another exotic import soon...
 
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