Mobil 1 EP 0w20 Tested - 210,000 miles

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Originally Posted By: BrianC
I want to know the wear #'s on the bearings vs new. It seems both Mobil and Amsoil want to boast the longevity of their oil while not providing current data that proves a wear advantage due to the use of the respective brands products.

Amsoil did a Taxi test in Las Vegas and somehow didn't feel the wear#'s on the Main bearings were important. Their deal was the oil was used for 900 hours without sludging. Well, that's nice, but where are the wear #'s.

Marketing at it best. Facts lacking for both. Lot's of DUDU being spread.



Let me start by saying I'm not a Mobil fan however I am a reasonable person with half a brain.



Now what are you even talking about when you say "wear numbers", because even us half a brain guys know a used oil analysis is in no way a reliable form of measuring an engines wear,which can only mean you are referring to messing wear via measuring an engines parts before build and at teardown,right?

Or how are you saying we should be measuring that?
Just wondering?
Because even me,not a Mobil fan,will buy the stuff and use it for the exact same interval I use my more favoured flavour of engine oil.

In fact because of the fact that Mobil guarantees their ep line is good for 15000 miles I wouldn't think twice about running it that long in an application that qualified.
Even me,who isn't find of the brand is smart enough to know that if it's on sale,cheaper than my personal fave,well I'm using it.
Whether or not the brand carries anyone's particular favour doesn't change the fact that they make a quality product comparable to any other product in the same tier on the shelf.
I like sopus products however they aren't always on sale when I'm buying so I buy what speaks to my wallet.
No,I am not find of m1 as a brand however you can be darn sure I'm using it if it's what's on sale when I'm changing oil.
 
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Under warranty, Mobil recommends staying with the mfg OCI.


Smart move imo, if they recommend any longer they'd be footing the bill in the event of an oil related engine failure.
 
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Under warranty, Mobil recommends staying with the mfg OCI.


What do Mobil cover you for when you're out of manufacturer warranty? 15k miles regardless of manufacturer oci?
 
Originally Posted By: Apollo14
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Under warranty, Mobil recommends staying with the mfg OCI.


What do Mobil cover you for when you're out of manufacturer warranty? 15k miles regardless of manufacturer oci?


I think it's 1-yr/15k for EP and 1-yr/10k for the normal Mobil 1.
 
Originally Posted By: Apollo14
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Under warranty, Mobil recommends staying with the mfg OCI.


What do Mobil cover you for when you're out of manufacturer warranty? 15k miles regardless of manufacturer oci?


From
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Extended_Performance_Warranty.aspx

What the Period of Coverage Is
The Mobil 1 Extended Performance limited warranty is valid for 15,000 miles or your vehicle’s OEM recommended oil change interval, whichever is longer.

Additional requirements for Mobil 1 Extended Performance include:
Oils must be put in service not later than five (5) years from the date of purchase; and
an oil change must be completed every twelve (12) months.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Under warranty, Mobil recommends staying with the mfg OCI.


Smart move imo, if they recommend any longer they'd be footing the bill in the event of an oil related engine failure.


It's actually protection for the customer. The car builder could refuse the claim other wise.
 
Not sure how well the test results correlate to the typical real world application. Indoors, room temp, no dirt, no salt, no rain. Would be interesting to know how many hours a day these engines were run.

If run 10 hours a day, the test would have taken a little over a year and there would have been a few hundred starts. The test could have been run 24/7 through the week and finished in about 7 months with only about 30 heat-up and cool down cycles. At any rate, compared to the typical application there would have been relatively few temperature cycles and engine starts (and no "cold" starts below room temperature).

Not a bad test, but certainly not a great test. I suppose it does support the validity of the 15K OCI capability of the oil in a broad sense.
 
Quote:

Now what are you even talking about when you say "wear numbers", because even us half a brain guys know a used oil analysis is in no way a reliable form of measuring an engines wear,which can only mean you are referring to messing wear via measuring an engines parts before build and at teardown,right?

Or how are you saying we should be measuring that?
Just wondering?


Teardown #'s vs new factory specs and tolerances.

My point is many of these tests don't tell the whole story. I am not saying either product doesn't perform well.

Publishing the actual teardown #'s vs new would be more convincing as well as the parameters of the simulated 210k test. Speeds, hrs per OC, temps, rpm's, start/shutdown, cooldown/warmup cycles, etc.
 
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Originally Posted By: BrianC
Quote:

Now what are you even talking about when you say "wear numbers", because even us half a brain guys know a used oil analysis is in no way a reliable form of measuring an engines wear,which can only mean you are referring to messing wear via measuring an engines parts before build and at teardown,right?

Or how are you saying we should be measuring that?
Just wondering?


Teardown #'s vs new factory specs and tolerances.

My point is many of these tests don't tell the whole story. I am not saying either product doesn't perform well.

Publishing the actual teardown #'s vs new would be more convincing as well as the parameters of the simulated 210k test. Speeds, temps, rpm's, start/shutdown, cooldown/warmup cycles, etc.





Not related to this particular test, but Doug did perform those measurements when he was doing the testing of Delvac 1 5w-40 in his OTR fleet in Australia. He provided some wonderful pictures on here of components with 1.2 million Km's on them and indicated that all parts were returned to service after inspection.
 
Quote:


Teardown #'s vs new factory specs and tolerances.

My point is many of these tests don't tell the whole story. I am not saying either product doesn't perform well.

Publishing the actual teardown #'s vs new would be more convincing as well as the parameters of the simulated 210k test. Speeds, hrs per OC, temps, rpm's, start/shutdown, cooldown/warmup cycles, etc.


Just to add, one other point;

An example, pure hwy driving results in an avg speed of about 50 MPH as published by EPA. City is just over 20 MPH.
In the Mobil 1 test, they only mention miles.

At an AVG of 50 MPH that engine would have 4200 hrs at 210,000 miles. At a pure city AVG of say 23 MPH, it would have 9130 hours, over double the hours.

That's 300 hrs per OC, or 652 hrs per OC. or somewhere in between. I think that would be relevant information
 
I'm not exactly sure how the test beds compare to actual field testing. That's a good question. The test beds do allow for changing conditions and are outdoors.

If the only time the engines were shut off was during the oil change, that means the conditions were not that severe. These are the details you'll never get from these types of marketing studies. It's still a lot better than going blind with no testing or approvals though.

The key thing to take from it is Mobil continues to update and push their 15k mile oil, and validate the testing. Few other off the shelf products have done that.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
I'm not exactly sure how the test beds compare to actual field testing. That's a good question. The test beds do allow for changing conditions and are outdoors.

If the only time the engines were shut off was during the oil change, that means the conditions were not that severe. These are the details you'll never get from these types of marketing studies. It's still a lot better than going blind with no testing or approvals though.

The key thing to take from it is Mobil continues to update and push their 15k mile oil, and validate the testing. Few other off the shelf products have done that.


Agree 100%, and I currently use regular M1. As a side note, I use hours to calculate my OCI.
Hyundai says 7500/3750, Nor/Sev. Hwy avg speed is about 50. That equals 150 hrs. City is 21, I round up to 25. 3750/25=150.

So the way I see it, Hyundai wants a 150 Hr OCI, which I choose to comply to avoid any hassles with the warranty.

Currently my avg speed is 35. So my current fill will be changed with 5250 miles on the oil. Last time it was 38 so it lasted 5700 miles.

I've always been puzzled as to why every engine on the planet is serviced based on hours EXCEPT cars and light trucks.

You could also figure based on the oil. M1 says 10,000 miles. M1 EP says 15,000. So that would be 200 or 300hrs on those products. So using avg speed adjusts the mileage based on my driving habits and keeps the time in service constant, which I think makes more sense. JMHO of course.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
I'm not exactly sure how the test beds compare to actual field testing. That's a good question. The test beds do allow for changing conditions and are outdoors.


Looked like much of the video including the obvious dyno shots were indoors in a typical garage type environment. I suppose they could open the overhead doors to get some exposure to the outside air temperature.
 
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
If Polaris ever gets it done, I have a 10K M1 5W30 EP & Fram Ultra UOA from my xB-with MANY SHORT TRIPS on it!
As promised, short trip UOA with EP posted-
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3470847/%2705_Scion_xB,_10K_on_M1_5W30_E
 
Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
Originally Posted By: buster
I'm not exactly sure how the test beds compare to actual field testing. That's a good question. The test beds do allow for changing conditions and are outdoors.


Looked like much of the video including the obvious dyno shots were indoors in a typical garage type environment. I suppose they could open the overhead doors to get some exposure to the outside air temperature.


They have both. I've seen the outdoor type in other videos.

4:35.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C003m55SQaY
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
I guess EP is the equivalent of the regular M1 of the past.


Not really. I have used M1 since 1978 and todays M1 oils(reg M1 included) are equal to and perhaps better than any I have ever used from XM.


I don't think group 3 was available way back in 1978, LOL.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
I guess EP is the equivalent of the regular M1 of the past.


Not really. I have used M1 since 1978 and todays M1 oils(reg M1 included) are equal to and perhaps better than any I have ever used from XM.


I don't think group 3 was available way back in 1978, LOL.


It wasn't. Todays base stock blends of 3+, 4, and 5 are better than the old 4 alone. Most all oils have been improving the last several decades.
 
too many marketing words like "essentially," "looks like," "barely," etc. Actual wear measurements would have been more useful.
 
Knowing the numbers how much bearings are worn down is pointless, as the car sat on the dyno entire time. Put in new engine and tranny and you can sell the car as new.

If you want real world testing, then hire a couple of 16 year olds and let them drive the car for 210k miles the way 16 year olds drive, while Mobil pays for oil changes. Then we can look at the numbers.
 
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