I Don't Change My Oil

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Originally Posted By: satinsilver
A cab or two burns through 4 quarts over 12 hours/300 miles or so.

That's a tad nasty. If one of mine had been doing that, it would be spending a day or so in the garage.
 
Originally Posted By: jsinton
Originally Posted By: ram_man
I am missing the point....is there a logical reason to perform this test that I am not understanding? The filter doesnt serve as valuable a purpose as the oil. Also oil is a filter. Why not change it out once in awhile? A filter at 3,000 probably looks very goodd inside still. Imo you would be better off changing oil more often and leaving the filter. Oil is to cheap for me not to do it every 5,000 miles or so. Ive been given [censored] on here before but my opinion is no engine has ever been damaged from changing the oil to soon on the other hand pushing oils limits has proven risky in certain cases, pop the valve cover off and let us see that. Then we can compare your pictures to mine and people with a similar mind set as me and see who's is cleaner.


Remember I get about 1 1/2 quarts of fresh oil every 4k, so essentially it's a full change every 12k. So it's not like I have the same old oil forever and ever.

My point is to save oil. If I were changing oil at 4k like before, that would have been 16.5 gallons of oil use total. I estimate for the same mileage using my system I have used 5.5 gallons. Then there's the issue of ease of the change. I just pull the filter, so that means no jacking up the car, I just reach under there and unscrew the filter. The waste oil can be caught in a paper cup. The whole process takes two minutes. I can do it on the road on long trips no problem. I can't remember the last time I actually had to dispose of the waste oil, maybe when I changed my Dad's transmission fluid. Then there's the cost. I buy the $3.29 filters at Wal Mart. So the total oil used, plus the filter cost me about $7 vs. about $19 before.


I don't think your plan is horrible at all. But personally I would drain the oil at some point and do a fresh change maybe every couple of years.
 
What the heck,,,old vw beetles did not have filters,,,had one, never lost an engine in it. Makes one think, is a filter necessary, unless your moving large metal pieces thru your engine........
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: jsinton
Originally Posted By: NMBurb02
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
OP, as I said, you will need to multiply your wear-metal ppms by 3.5 to adjust for the amount diluted by makeup oil. Then you can divide the adjusted ppms by 10 to get the ppm per 5000 miles.

Actually, your math is a bit off because it is assuming 1 qt added to a 5 qt sump. OP's car has a 3.75 qt sump. I could probably follow your math on any other day, but it has been a long day and my brain is pretty much mush at this point. Can you calculate the correction factor with that new data? I know it will be higher.


Actually, I usually fill with 4.5 quarts with a complete oil change to bring oil to the fill mark. The owner's manual says 4.2 quarts or 4 liters.

Redoing the calculation for 4.5 qt, I get a correction factor of 3.73x for 1 qt of makeup oil added every 4k miles and UOA done at 50k miles. Of course, as with anything, this is only an estimate, and it assumes uniform wear through the 50k OCI, which obviously won't be the case here, as the wear will accelerate greatly with increasing TAN.

This means, when you get your UOA results, multiply Fe, Al, Cu, Cr, Sn, and Pb by 3.73 to get the actual wear amounts. Then you can divide it by 10 to get the average wear for 50k/10 = 5k miles.





So exactly how many nanometers/microns of wear,in relation to the ppm wear metals are found in the oil.

And I think you're wrong about the base oils wearing out. Sure there's oxidation and nitration however.
It was my understanding that the base oil in a lubricant never wears out however the additives in the lubricant do deplete which then allows acids to build up.
With by-pass filtration and an alkaline base/concentrated additive package carrier would neutralize the acids in the sump and by-pass filtration catching everything a micron or smaller,which could delay oil change indefinitely.
If the oil is filtered so clean that insols are nil,and a concentrated alkaline additive which contains everything that depletes during use could easily eliminate the need for oil changes. Ph levels could easily be adjusted from acidic to alkaline,which cans your acid theory. Just change all the filters.
If there was a concentrate of course.

I know liqui-moly motor oil saver contains boron and is alkaline which helps extend oil change intervals.

Gohkan. I think your off on quite a few points in your post.


Yeah. I read it over. I'm not even going to get into picking it apart.


Sounds nice though
 
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
What the heck,,,old vw beetles did not have filters,,,had one, never lost an engine in it. Makes one think, is a filter necessary, unless your moving large metal pieces thru your engine........

For every one old VW beetle owner that did not need a rebuild, 1000 did. It was extremely, extremely common.

Anecdotes can be very dangerous
 
Originally Posted By: thunderfog
Originally Posted By: ram_man

However what bothers me is you are lax on the maintenance and some day youll sell it to unsuspecting people and they will get burned by increased wear and im sure youll ask the market value price of good or very good condition even though at that point the engine will be fair at best......not fair to future buyers and owners but I don't think you see it that way.


To be fair, 90% of used cars sold (made up internet percentage) are someone else's problem. I, myself, have been torched due to dishonesty in the used car market, and it was because I was naive enough to take someone at their word (yes, my fault; I was young). I assume all used cars have issues from the get go.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I am a fan of bypass filtration, but UOAs and bypass filtration keep me coming back to Doug Hillary's statements that oil analysis tells you about an oil's condemnation limit, not what's going on with the engine.

Bypass filtration moreso, as the filter would be trapping particulates of significance that are being shed by the engine...certainly before they do more damage, but also preventing them from being in the UOA.




From what I've learned here I wholeheartedly agree with you.
Yet we still have members who believe wear can be determined by a 25 dollar used oil analysis.
No matter how many times it's said,by professionals in the field,professionals who actually formulate and engineer lubes,etc some people think they know better.
I once thought that wear could be determined by the amount of wear metals in a used oil analysis, which professionals clearly state isn't possible,yet it's said time and time again.
A used oil analysis is only effective at monitoring the condition of the oil. Nothing else.
Establish trends and look for anomalies. It's that simple.
Heck wasn't there a member with a grand national that munched itself yet a couple weeks prior the used oil analysis looked great,with low "wear metals"
Shannow.
One of us should dig up Doug's posts referring to used oil analysis and ask a mod to sticky it.
Then perhaps it'll sink in to those folks who keep choosing to ignore the facts that Doug outlines
And Shannow. There should be a sticky in reference to how a bearing works.
I thought I had it figured out but your cliff notes really kicked butt.
Thanks for helping enlighten members like myself.
 
Originally Posted By: Subdued
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
What the heck,,,old vw beetles did not have filters,,,had one, never lost an engine in it. Makes one think, is a filter necessary, unless your moving large metal pieces thru your engine........

For every one old VW beetle owner that did not need a rebuild, 1000 did. It was extremely, extremely common.

Anecdotes can be very dangerous


So sadly true. And they are used here quite often.

I've had more than one vehicle with no oil filter. None of them ever blew up. But I can't imagine that a properly operating filter isn't going to extend the engine life...
 
Originally Posted By: jsinton
Hi guys. Just thought I'd inflame the forum. I don't change my oil anymore, not for more than 3 years anyways. I just change the filter and add make-up oil. I leak/burn about one quart per 4K miles, and I change the filter in about 3K, or when I think it's dirty. Currently, I have 47K on this batch using my system of scheduled maintenance. I'm waiting for 50K to have it tested at Blackstone. My goal is to continue to 100K and have it tested again. If it tests okay at that time, I probably won't have it tested anymore, and I will feel vindicated. Would anyone care to lambaste and belittle me?


From what you have stated every 4000 miles you would have added approx 1.5 quarts of fresh oil to the engine ie 1 quart from burned make up oil and 0.5 quarts from a filter change. If you did 12 000 miles per year you will have added 4.5 quarts so that is like 1 full oil change per year.

You are sticking your neck in for little return in terms of savings as what you are saving in engine oil you are spending on UOAs.

Interestingly the engine oil life monitor are based on changing oil and filter not just the filter as prescribed operating conditions.

I don't have a problem with what you are doing especially if its done in "an oil burner" and the engine is on the way out as there will be a continual supply of fresh additives being added to the oil. At the same time I would not recommend it.

I once thought about this before I had my engine rebuilt as it was consuming too much oil.

In engine with "normal" oil consumption definitely stick to normal OEM recommendations.
 
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Don't really see the point.

You're getting fresh oil in albeit not all at once.

Guess it beats watching MacGyver reruns.

Feats of daring....

Not much at risk with the Hyundai anyway.

A full oil change with synthetic and a top quality filter might double its retail value.
 
I've not taken the time to look through the thread yet.

But this looks like a really interesting experiment
 
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