IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant
- Thread starter alternety
- Start date
- Status
well ... i trying not fall in a pure tribology science discussion.
Everything you told me i read from the book at univ many years ago and it was successfully forgotten do to sharp curve in a profession, anyway. (btw still remember some theoretical exploration during study wasn't applicable in practice, helium bearing)
EP - i guess an extreme pressure.
Guess i wasn't clear in my previous statements, an additional additives for me personally is interesting only to increase a boundary lubrication. start stop acceleration, where my engine is 95% working (as city traffic)
that was my point, btw a diagram do support it... (recall it in a diff form like a function of something on left)
And I do believe, ceramic, or solid molybdenum or carbon do decrease harm in this situation. I'm not touching deeply a bounding process like zddp to iron etc.
Everything you told me i read from the book at univ many years ago and it was successfully forgotten do to sharp curve in a profession, anyway. (btw still remember some theoretical exploration during study wasn't applicable in practice, helium bearing)
EP - i guess an extreme pressure.
Guess i wasn't clear in my previous statements, an additional additives for me personally is interesting only to increase a boundary lubrication. start stop acceleration, where my engine is 95% working (as city traffic)
that was my point, btw a diagram do support it... (recall it in a diff form like a function of something on left)
And I do believe, ceramic, or solid molybdenum or carbon do decrease harm in this situation. I'm not touching deeply a bounding process like zddp to iron etc.
Cool, we'll keep science out of the discussion and stick to the other forms of discussion.
Originally Posted By: DrAdmin
Guess i wasn't clear in my previous statements, an additional additives for me personally is interesting only to increase a boundary lubrication. start stop acceleration, where my engine is 95% working (as city traffic)
So your engine is working in boundary lubrication in stop start traffic ?
Am interested in how you ascertained that.
Originally Posted By: DrAdmin
Guess i wasn't clear in my previous statements, an additional additives for me personally is interesting only to increase a boundary lubrication. start stop acceleration, where my engine is 95% working (as city traffic)
So your engine is working in boundary lubrication in stop start traffic ?
Am interested in how you ascertained that.
"So your engine is working in boundary lubrication in stop start traffic ? Am interested in how you ascertained that."
Molakule told me, even shows a couple pictures:
or this one:
or lifters:
maginfied:
Or I should believe you? and your statement, that no physical contact between running parts? No wear? And all this damage done by floating oil like a river wear a stone ?
Molakule told me, even shows a couple pictures:
or this one:
or lifters:
maginfied:
Or I should believe you? and your statement, that no physical contact between running parts? No wear? And all this damage done by floating oil like a river wear a stone ?
Last edited:
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
Molakule told me, even shows a couple pictures:
HUH??
Molakule told me, even shows a couple pictures:
HUH??
I find these last posts... I go and pour meself some ice water. With ice. And turn on the fan.
This is now a bit farther than I originaly assumed as I began following this thread.
Aside from this, I think I gotta get me some.
Can WS2 reseal rings and liners? Somwhere I found that ceramic/MoS2 solids can affect seal to a good degree. Is this hype or just limited improvement in specific conditions?
This is now a bit farther than I originaly assumed as I began following this thread.
Aside from this, I think I gotta get me some.
Can WS2 reseal rings and liners? Somwhere I found that ceramic/MoS2 solids can affect seal to a good degree. Is this hype or just limited improvement in specific conditions?
Last edited:
A question from one of the earlier links (
http://www.mdpi.com/2075-4442/1/4/95/pdf) that explained why this WS2 stuff is awful and will destroy the universe as we know it. They noted the Sulfur from the WS2 would cause serious corrosion problems. It seems to me that the Sulfur is fairly tightly bound. I am guessing at least as much as MoS2. Can anyone clear that up for me? And if it is not, then it would follow that MoS2 (used everywhere except toothpaste, but including oil and grease), is also not a hideous corrosive.
Just askin.
http://www.mdpi.com/2075-4442/1/4/95/pdf) that explained why this WS2 stuff is awful and will destroy the universe as we know it. They noted the Sulfur from the WS2 would cause serious corrosion problems. It seems to me that the Sulfur is fairly tightly bound. I am guessing at least as much as MoS2. Can anyone clear that up for me? And if it is not, then it would follow that MoS2 (used everywhere except toothpaste, but including oil and grease), is also not a hideous corrosive.
Just askin.
Originally Posted By: Alfa_Hadera
Can WS2 reseal rings and liners?
Don't know. Is that a manufacturer's claim? "Reseal" may be a bit strong, but it might reduce oil passage by the rings.
Originally Posted By: Alfa_Hadera
Somwhere I found that ceramic/MoS2 solids can affect seal to a good degree. Is this hype or just limited improvement in specific conditions?
At least as pertains to MoS2, it's not hype. In a very tight like-new engine, the improvement is likely to be minimal. In an engine with some ring/cylidner wear, you should get more benefit. For any engine, it will be a friction reducer, reduces oil temperature, provides start-up lubrication, etc.
Someone else can respond on 'ceramic' solids (maybe like Cera-tec?)
Can WS2 reseal rings and liners?
Don't know. Is that a manufacturer's claim? "Reseal" may be a bit strong, but it might reduce oil passage by the rings.
Originally Posted By: Alfa_Hadera
Somwhere I found that ceramic/MoS2 solids can affect seal to a good degree. Is this hype or just limited improvement in specific conditions?
At least as pertains to MoS2, it's not hype. In a very tight like-new engine, the improvement is likely to be minimal. In an engine with some ring/cylidner wear, you should get more benefit. For any engine, it will be a friction reducer, reduces oil temperature, provides start-up lubrication, etc.
Someone else can respond on 'ceramic' solids (maybe like Cera-tec?)
It might do something depending on the initial engine condition. It does form a layer on the metal, but I would not expect this layer to get very thick. I don't remember seeing that information. It does fill in the cracks and crevices found in the "smooth" surface of the finished metal. But that would probably not contribute much to fixing your ring/cylinder spacing.
I believe I would have used this as break in oil if I had it in time. As the engine is shearing off the high spots the WS2 would also probably do some exfoliating from the actions on the new surface. This might hasten the surface fill and forming of a wear layer. Once in place, this film will improve wear rates.
I believe I would have used this as break in oil if I had it in time. As the engine is shearing off the high spots the WS2 would also probably do some exfoliating from the actions on the new surface. This might hasten the surface fill and forming of a wear layer. Once in place, this film will improve wear rates.
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
paging; 67King!
Yeah, I'll get back to this. Someone has tracked me down on a Porsche forum to copy and paste that there, as well. Registered just to ask me that publicly, and the only post made since then. Been out of town and away from internet access but am now replying to it. So I thought I'd check here. Cut and paste, right down to "page 97" of a 7 page PDF.
Have to roll my eyes at the "paper." Long on assertions, way short on data. The only citation they make is about how it is being marketed, and that reference contains data that refutes their claims. Nothing resembling a DoE. Picked 5% and ran with it. That seems like kind if a whole heapin' lot of any kind if EP additive to me, anyway. No explanation of how they did their testing for anything beyond the 4-ball test.
Lots of speculation, "may cause" types of stuff. Right.
OH and hte health thing. It is received in suspension. Small particles are a concern when airborn, and the CDC does call out a question about migration from lungs to other parts of the body. In the environment where they are made. At the user level, given that it is in suspension at the tier 2 level to go into a tier 1 product, it won't really be airborn.
The later linked military one is interesting, given that MIllers has used a Sequence-6 test to show fuel economy improvements from a lab in San Antonio. Hits 6 speed load points meant to simulate a drive cycle. And the results were affirmative (i.e. was a gain).
FWIW, Aston Martin switched to MIllers with NT for their factory fill gear oil in January of this year. Previously specified a 40,000 mile service interval, but now call it a lifetime fill. We have tons and tons of similar feedback from the gear oil, in F1 (quite confidential, unfortunately), WRC (Jipocar - sponsored), IndyCar (Bryan Herta AUtosports last year - tech partnership, NOT a sponsorship). Have a NASCAR supplier (independent) and a team (sponsored by a competitor) testing it right now, but they have not shared any results with us. We have a motorcycle team sponsored by a competitor who hadn't been able to finish a race until they switched to Millers, and as much as I'd love to elaborate, any more detail may reveal who it is, which I cannot do.
Blah, blah, blah. Anyway, will try to get back to more. Have to give a more formal response given we were a site sponsor when I first posted the prior one.
paging; 67King!
Yeah, I'll get back to this. Someone has tracked me down on a Porsche forum to copy and paste that there, as well. Registered just to ask me that publicly, and the only post made since then. Been out of town and away from internet access but am now replying to it. So I thought I'd check here. Cut and paste, right down to "page 97" of a 7 page PDF.
Have to roll my eyes at the "paper." Long on assertions, way short on data. The only citation they make is about how it is being marketed, and that reference contains data that refutes their claims. Nothing resembling a DoE. Picked 5% and ran with it. That seems like kind if a whole heapin' lot of any kind if EP additive to me, anyway. No explanation of how they did their testing for anything beyond the 4-ball test.
Lots of speculation, "may cause" types of stuff. Right.
OH and hte health thing. It is received in suspension. Small particles are a concern when airborn, and the CDC does call out a question about migration from lungs to other parts of the body. In the environment where they are made. At the user level, given that it is in suspension at the tier 2 level to go into a tier 1 product, it won't really be airborn.
The later linked military one is interesting, given that MIllers has used a Sequence-6 test to show fuel economy improvements from a lab in San Antonio. Hits 6 speed load points meant to simulate a drive cycle. And the results were affirmative (i.e. was a gain).
FWIW, Aston Martin switched to MIllers with NT for their factory fill gear oil in January of this year. Previously specified a 40,000 mile service interval, but now call it a lifetime fill. We have tons and tons of similar feedback from the gear oil, in F1 (quite confidential, unfortunately), WRC (Jipocar - sponsored), IndyCar (Bryan Herta AUtosports last year - tech partnership, NOT a sponsorship). Have a NASCAR supplier (independent) and a team (sponsored by a competitor) testing it right now, but they have not shared any results with us. We have a motorcycle team sponsored by a competitor who hadn't been able to finish a race until they switched to Millers, and as much as I'd love to elaborate, any more detail may reveal who it is, which I cannot do.
Blah, blah, blah. Anyway, will try to get back to more. Have to give a more formal response given we were a site sponsor when I first posted the prior one.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: 67King
We have tons and tons of similar feedback from the gear oil, in F1 (quite confidential, unfortunately), WRC (Jipocar - sponsored)
Yes, I noticed the Millers name on Martin Prokop's Fiesta's livery.
Does that team use Millers in ALL of the components for which it is made (engine/diffs/gearbox/etc.)??
We have tons and tons of similar feedback from the gear oil, in F1 (quite confidential, unfortunately), WRC (Jipocar - sponsored)
Yes, I noticed the Millers name on Martin Prokop's Fiesta's livery.
Does that team use Millers in ALL of the components for which it is made (engine/diffs/gearbox/etc.)??
- Status
Similar threads
