Lower Priced Indian Models

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Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: grampi
.......if you had read any of this thread, you'd see that Bigcahuna started all this mess, I didn't...

This time.......

It's funny watching you and BigCahuna argue. Your opinions are polar opposite, but your tactics are identical.


Do you ever say anything definitive about anything, or do you always "walk the fence?" Are you afraid someone will call you a basher if you appear to take one side or the other? Hem-hawing is no way to go through life...
 
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Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
30's technology at 2014 prices deserves to be bashed.


Did I miss computer controlled electronic fuel injection, electronic ignition, electric start, and anti lock disk brakes in my studies of 1930's Automotive/Motorcycle history?

Only thing 1930's like on the new Harleys is the fact they are 45 degree air cooled engines using pushrod activated overhead vales and a single crank pin. I will say that performance for displacement has not much improved in the OEM engines despite the advent of better technologies. Of course emissions standards have a huge role in the timidness of air cooled engines these days.


Bolting as much new technology as you can onto an ancient design doesn't make the ancient part any less ancient...
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Are you drunk?

You can always tell when someone reaches the end of their intellectual rope.

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: grampi
.......if you had read any of this thread, you'd see that Bigcahuna started all this mess, I didn't...

This time.......

It's funny watching you and BigCahuna argue. Your opinions are polar opposite, but your tactics are identical.


Do you ever say anything definitive about anything, or do you always "walk the fence?" Are you afraid someone will call you a basher if you appear to take one side or the other? Hem-hawing is no way to go through life...

See the note above.

I've owned Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, and Harley motorcycles. I'd buy them all again. What definitive stand am I supposed to make? I like all bikes. Sure, some don't appeal to me, but I'm not going to make stuff up just to make my favorite bike appear better. Hypocritical and negative is no way to go through life......
 
Let us be fair here. There are metric makers that are using similar things. I mean I have seen pushrod air cooled Yamahas and Honda proudly advertizes the use of a single crank pin on their 1300's. So HD is not the only one using these old features.

And the internal combustion engine is ancient technology.

And while I think the metrics give more bang for the buck, I cannot agree with the statement they are bolting new stuff on old designs. I mean it is not like we see Harley bolting fuel injection on a knucklehead here or one of the old side valve engines. These are Twin Cam engines that share features with older ones, but instead are made from more modern materials on more modern machines and to a higher degree of precision.
 
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Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: dr2152
No you just jump in bashing Harleys. It's what you do. Yes you talk about riding bikes but the ones of us that ride them a lot know better. Stop bashing other peoples rides.


Oh I see what this is...since Bigcahuna is a Harley Kool-Aid drinker like you, it doesn't matter what he posted (because it's pro-Harley)...you're just whining because someone is telling the truth about your beloved brand...


This is about you. Pointing at someone else says "he did it to" doesn't help your argument. It makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about.
 
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Are you drunk?

You can always tell when someone reaches the end of their intellectual rope.

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: grampi
.......if you had read any of this thread, you'd see that Bigcahuna started all this mess, I didn't...

This time.......

It's funny watching you and BigCahuna argue. Your opinions are polar opposite, but your tactics are identical.


Do you ever say anything definitive about anything, or do you always "walk the fence?" Are you afraid someone will call you a basher if you appear to take one side or the other? Hem-hawing is no way to go through life...

See the note above.

I've owned Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, and Harley motorcycles. I'd buy them all again. What definitive stand am I supposed to make? I like all bikes. Sure, some don't appeal to me, but I'm not going to make stuff up just to make my favorite bike appear better. Hypocritical and negative is no way to go through life......


Now I'm making stuff up? Like what? I think you've lost it man...
 
Originally Posted By: dr2152
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: dr2152
No you just jump in bashing Harleys. It's what you do. Yes you talk about riding bikes but the ones of us that ride them a lot know better. Stop bashing other peoples rides.


Oh I see what this is...since Bigcahuna is a Harley Kool-Aid drinker like you, it doesn't matter what he posted (because it's pro-Harley)...you're just whining because someone is telling the truth about your beloved brand...


This is about you. Pointing at someone else says "he did it to" doesn't help your argument. It makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about.


So that's what you come up with when someone says you Harley guys all sound the same? Where do you think stereotypes come from?
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
30's technology at 2014 prices deserves to be bashed.


Did I miss computer controlled electronic fuel injection, electronic ignition, electric start, and anti lock disk brakes in my studies of 1930's Automotive/Motorcycle history?

Only thing 1930's like on the new Harleys is the fact they are 45 degree air cooled engines using pushrod activated overhead vales and a single crank pin. I will say that performance for displacement has not much improved in the OEM engines despite the advent of better technologies. Of course emissions standards have a huge role in the timidness of air cooled engines these days.


Bolting as much new technology as you can onto an ancient design doesn't make the ancient part any less ancient...


You made that up right? You don't really believe that that the design from 1930 is the same as 2014? Or you do believe it because you said it?
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: dr2152
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: dr2152
No you just jump in bashing Harleys. It's what you do. Yes you talk about riding bikes but the ones of us that ride them a lot know better. Stop bashing other peoples rides.


Oh I see what this is...since Bigcahuna is a Harley Kool-Aid drinker like you, it doesn't matter what he posted (because it's pro-Harley)...you're just whining because someone is telling the truth about your beloved brand...


This is about you. Pointing at someone else says "he did it to" doesn't help your argument. It makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about.


So that's what you come up with when someone says you Harley guys all sound the same? Where do you think stereotypes come from?


Stereotype= grampi
That's the point. You hate Harleys. On the other bike site I'm a Honda guy. I have more than one bike. All you Harley haters sound the same.
 
Originally Posted By: dr2152
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
30's technology at 2014 prices deserves to be bashed.


Did I miss computer controlled electronic fuel injection, electronic ignition, electric start, and anti lock disk brakes in my studies of 1930's Automotive/Motorcycle history?

Only thing 1930's like on the new Harleys is the fact they are 45 degree air cooled engines using pushrod activated overhead vales and a single crank pin. I will say that performance for displacement has not much improved in the OEM engines despite the advent of better technologies. Of course emissions standards have a huge role in the timidness of air cooled engines these days.


Bolting as much new technology as you can onto an ancient design doesn't make the ancient part any less ancient...


You made that up right? You don't really believe that that the design from 1930 is the same as 2014? Or you do believe it because you said it?


Not the same design, but the same, antiquated design philosophy...
 
Originally Posted By: dr2152
Stereotype= grampi
That's the point. You hate Harleys. On the other bike site I'm a Honda guy. I have more than one bike. All you Harley haters sound the same.


I can relate to that....
 
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
30's technology at 2014 prices deserves to be bashed.


Did I miss computer controlled electronic fuel injection, electronic ignition, electric start, and anti lock disk brakes in my studies of 1930's Automotive/Motorcycle history?

Only thing 1930's like on the new Harleys is the fact they are 45 degree air cooled engines using pushrod activated overhead vales and a single crank pin. I will say that performance for displacement has not much improved in the OEM engines despite the advent of better technologies. Of course emissions standards have a huge role in the timidness of air cooled engines these days.


They're still stone-age air-cooled engines that shake like they have advanced Parkinsons and need various Band-Aid fixes (like shutting down a cylinder in traffic!) to not overheat and seize in traffic! I can dress up a Model T engine with EFI and overhead cams...but it's still a fossil!
 
Every internal combustion engine is a fossil. It is essentially no different than trying to build a high tech steam engine. We are talking Victorian era technology. My Triumph would arguably be a fossil as it is the same layout and cooling method as the pre ww2 Speed Twin. It just has overhead cams and fuel injection now. But it does not mean it is not dependable and reliable.
 
Harley's are unquestionably antiquated with respect to the engine architecture. But if the Harley guys like them, who cares. So what if they have a lower redline than my truck, or that they have a lower specific output than my lawn tractor. I personally don't like them that's why I won't buy one. But if it appeals to someone else and makes them feel like a [censored]'s angel on the weekend as they drive to bike night, well then that's their prerogative.

I think what turns most riders off to Harley's is the want to be tough guy persona that many Harley riders have, as well as a near religious fervor that they espouse, to the point of self delusion.

I have ridden several Harley's and I can tell you that they are not for me. However my riding buddy rides an '07 road glide and that's fine by me. He loves his bike, I love mine(Honda VFR) and we have a good time riding together.

I just hope that Indian wants to stay true to it's roots and eventually comes out with a sports or adv. bike. I like Polaris's engineering philosophy. And I would love to have an U.S. designed and made bike.
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
Now I'm making stuff up? Like what? I think you've lost it man...

When you said "Harleys cost 2-3 times more than Japanese bikes", I thought you were making that up. If you weren't making that up, I guess you're just clueless when it comes to motorcycles.
 
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: grampi
Now I'm making stuff up? Like what? I think you've lost it man...

When you said "Harleys cost 2-3 times more than Japanese bikes", I thought you were making that up. If you weren't making that up, I guess you're just clueless when it comes to motorcycles.


A Harley does cost 2-3 times more than a Honda Rebel.
 
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: grampi
Now I'm making stuff up? Like what? I think you've lost it man...

When you said "Harleys cost 2-3 times more than Japanese bikes", I thought you were making that up. If you weren't making that up, I guess you're just clueless when it comes to motorcycles.


I don't ever recall seeing any $40K+ price tags on any metrics (not even close), though I did see a couple of new Harleys just within the last month with price tags that high...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
30's technology at 2014 prices deserves to be bashed.


Did I miss computer controlled electronic fuel injection, electronic ignition, electric start, and anti lock disk brakes in my studies of 1930's Automotive/Motorcycle history?

Only thing 1930's like on the new Harleys is the fact they are 45 degree air cooled engines using pushrod activated overhead vales and a single crank pin. I will say that performance for displacement has not much improved in the OEM engines despite the advent of better technologies. Of course emissions standards have a huge role in the timidness of air cooled engines these days.


They're still stone-age air-cooled engines that shake like they have advanced Parkinsons and need various Band-Aid fixes (like shutting down a cylinder in traffic!) to not overheat and seize in traffic! I can dress up a Model T engine with EFI and overhead cams...but it's still a fossil!


The overheat shutdown circuit tells me all I need to know about Harley...
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
I don't ever recall seeing any $40K+ price tags on any metrics (not even close), though I did see a couple of new Harleys just within the last month with price tags that high...

If you're comparing CVOs to your bike, then the Harley is going to be more expensive. If you make an intelligent comparison, you'll see models from Harley, Honda, BMW, etc to all be competitively priced.
I'm curious what models you saw that were $40K+.
 
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