1995 Toyota Tercel DX, 260,000 kms.

[Speed_Racer]

Hey guys,

I have an old Tercel that I have been unkind to over the years. I've used every oil imaginable in her, and some years I didn't bother. I believe I even used 20-50 in her one winter (-50 C, northern Alberta).

No block heater, started fine.

After pumping up the $26 Walmart 13" tires over pressure and changing to 5w30, she now gets nearly 48 mpg on the highway. I believe there was a mix of oils in her previously. Really quite thick and black, actually ... Anyway, the only other mods is a Harley Davidson muffler I picked up when the exhaust broke. $20 at a cycle salvage yard.

***

I've suddenly started to become very attached to her. And she responded so well to a lighter oil, I'm wondering if I could go 5w20. She burns no oil, and I was thinking of using a fl 400s oil filter (it's about the size of keg, apparently bolts right in, intended for a Ford F-150), increases the capacity from 3 litres to 3.5 litres.

Now, there appears to be some controversy over the 5w20 vs 5w30 thing. Nearest I can tell one school of thought says simply uses what the manufacturer suggests. 10w30 on the cap, but a recent oil chart from Toyota suggests 5w30. And there's always that 5w20 CAFE conspiracy thing ... But, see, I'm not opposed to tinkering a bit, I don't think the manufacturer would suggest my Harley pipe or over-inflated tires either and both have contributed to her stellar performance (less rolling resistance, small pipes, free flowing exhaust FTW!). And she just perked up so much when I put 5w30 in her, I'm kind of on the lighter-is-better bandwagon.

Besides, 5w30 sheers to 5w20 anyway, right?

Given her history and abuse, this may seem an odd obsession. But I've read a few posts on this forum, and you are all an odd lot. So I think I've come to the right place.

Best,
Speed Racer

(ps Driving will be a mix of
(pps Pennzoil PYB will be the dino oil I'll use. It's on sale right now in 5w20, 5w30, and 10w30 weights)

 

[SumpChump]

They dont make'em like they used to. Dong go to light though.

 

[AKhan87]

I don't see why not, you did use out of spec oil before. As long as you keep the engine topped off I think you will be fine with the 5w20 or 0w20 (since where you live is freezing cold)

 

[Apollo14]

Is that recent chart from Toyota a US chart or a Canada chart?

I would stick with Toyota's recommendations but if you're reading a US chart, bear in mind that they need to be confident that 5w20 can handle 40c so the 5w30 for your vehicle may reflect the worst case highest ambient temperature expected in the US.

A Canadian chart or your real world conditions may allow you to use 5w20 but I wouldn't guess this fact because going too light is dangerous whereas your previous oil choices and decisions were merely suboptimal.

 

[tc1446]

I understand how you feel, having only recently renewed my interest in a 2000 Ford Ranger that I've grossly neglected for past 14 years. Used to haul trash a couple miles every week or so with dogs riding along, truck never washed unless caught out in rain, it was looking pretty sat. However, it did sit under a shed all those years and after a new windshield, repaired door lock, repaired speedo, repaired wipers, transmission and anti-freeze serviced, and a thorough cleaning and light waxing, repeated spraying of Fabreze, its looking pretty darn good. New tires orderd today to replace the OEM's which still have plenty of tread, but beginning to show dry rot. Even tho it only gets 21 mpg on the4.0 V6, I'll save a bunch on property tax and insurance. When I can get my hands on an orbital buffer I want to give the paint a good going over and it should be good for many more years. LOL>

 

[Speed_Racer]

Hey, thanks for the quick feedback gentlemen. And yeah, TC, I feel guilty for the way I've treated her and I must make amends. My friends don't understand. Inevitably when I ask for some suggestions, the response is along the lines of "a cliff" or "dynamite".

[censored].

Apollo, the Toyota chart was a Canadian one:

[img:center]http://www.positivespin.us/ToyotaOilChart.htm[/img]

So it would seem pretty cut 'n' dry to use 5w30. However, the weather will be getting cold, my trips are mostly short, and I'm not convinced that Toyota is the final word. My oil cap says 10w30, a weight no longer even recommended. I also have a suspicion that Pennzoil 5w20 of today likely outperforms a great many 5w30s of 20 years ago.

My reasons for trying 5w20 are largely philosophical in that I suspect we'll never really know. Thinner, lighter oil that lubricates better at start when 90% of the engine wear takes place seems a reasonable justification to give her a go.

But I have been known to be very, very wrong.

All thoughts appreciated.

 

[AKhan87]

Originally Posted By: Speed_Racer
Hey, thanks for the quick feedback gentlemen.

Apollo, the Toyota chart was a Canadian one:

[img:center]http://www.positivespin.us/ToyotaOilChart.htm[/img]

So it would seem pretty cut 'n' dry to use 5w30. However, the weather will be getting cold, my trips are mostly short, and I'm not convinced that Toyota is the final word. My oil cap says 10w30, a weight no longer even recommended. I also have a suspicion that Pennzoil 5w20 of today likely outperforms a great many 5w30s of 20 years ago.

My reasons for trying 5w20 are largely philosophical in that I suspect we'll never really know. Thinner, lighter oil that lubricates better at start when 90% of the engine wear takes place seems a reasonable justification to give her a go.

But I have been known to be very, very wrong.

All thoughts appreciated.


give it a shot, I don't really see how it can go SO WRONG that your engine will need major work done.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Speed_Racer
Thinner, lighter oil that lubricates better at start when 90% of the engine wear takes place seems a reasonable justification to give her a go.


Most of that wear occurs during warm-up, not the actual "start" per se. Oil is in the engine, the galleries are full, bu the oil isn't working properly additive wise, the bores and pistons aren't normal shape etc.

Sequence IV wear test, the standard for wear uses oil, at flow and pressure, purposely held down to low temperatures where the additives aren't functional to simulate warm-up wear...20s haven't shown any advantage in this test.

The most important number if you want to minimise your operation before galleries are full is the 5W, 0W, 10W.

e.g. see this mobil preso
http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/aktion/Attachment.html?attachmentId=695007

Page 17, all 40 grades, shows the difference in time to attain oil pressure at -32C.

Use a 0W, just (IMO) stick to the 30 at the end...

 

[Speed_Racer]

give it a shot, I don't really see how it can go SO WRONG that your engine will need major work done.

Yeah, after the horror I've put her through in the past, this should be a walk in the park. I'll give 5w20 a whirl, and if she blows up ...

Well, my dating life will likely improve.

So, really, win-win here.

 

[Speed_Racer]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Use a 0W, just (IMO) stick to the 30 at the end...


Ah, the plot thickens!

I knew I was over-simplifying things. Thanks Shan. I don't mean to use my Tercel as a proxy for the 5w20 vs 5w30 war ... actually, maybe I do. It's a slow day.

I think my options are limited to 5w20, 5w30, or 10w30 (Canadian Tire sale) so I'll put you in the 5w30 camp.

That makes it 3-2 for 5w30 vs 5w20.

 

[Shannow]

Put me a half vote in either camp
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3427767/Condensed_BITOG_learning

If you are going 5W30, there's around 10% VII, versus 5-6 for either the 5W20 or the 10W30...a 5W30 Dino probably will shear more than either the other two.

 

[Speed_Racer]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Put me a half vote in either camp
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3427767/Condensed_BITOG_learning

If you are going 5W30, there's around 10% VII, versus 5-6 for either the 5W20 or the 10W30...a 5W30 Dino probably will shear more than either the other two.


I have it on good accord that Ford is still involved in a number of shadow operations on Tatooine, but we'll let that slide for the time being.

Toyota engineers must be as smart as Nissan engineers. After all, they made the Echo. *Swoosh*. So when they specified 30 they also knew it would sheer in no time to 20. I suspect what they didn't know was that 20 didn't shear. They likely had other things on their mind at the time, Sarin gas attacks, the Great Hanshin earthquake, Helly Kitty! ...

Anyway, I'm not quite sure what the excuse is now for recommending 5w30 only, but its all very mysterious.

As it stands, however, we are now officially split down the middle. Of the 5 votes we are now 2.5 to 2.5 for 5w20 vs 5w30.

Who's going to smash this deadlock?

 

[fdcg27]

I'll smash it.
Very similar Toyota engine designs have a twenty grade recommended for them, so I don't think that you'll hurt this Tercel by using one.
OTOH, what do you hope to gain?
How many small fours have run how many miles on 5W-30 or even much thicker oils.
I never used anything thinner than 10W-40 in our old 1.5 liter Civics and all three saw -25F starts in really cold years.
Use a 5W-20 or a 5W30.
Either will work well and as you note, the 5W-30 API SJ oils of the vintage of this car would shear to twenty grades anyway, while current 5W-20s are pretty resistant to shearing out of grade.
Flip a coin and be glad that Toyota engineered this unit well enough to resist the abuse you've subjected it to in the past.

 

[Speed_Racer]

So ... we basically stand at 3-3 here.

With the crowd leaning to it being a rather inconsequential choice. And that I kinda suck as a human. Now, on the gain side of using 5w20, I suppose I was thinking philosophically. Lighter, leaner, thinner oil circulating easier. It just seemed healthier in an abstract sort of way. But, apparently, it does not matter, in the slightest, so I will flip a coin and stress over other issues.

Like oil filters.

The idea was to plunk in one of those wonderful Fl-400s oil filters that hold about half a litre of oil as opposed to the original 4967 that has the capacity of a fork. I thought bigger would be better, however:

I discovered some murmurings that these big filters take time to fill when the motor starts. And they have to fill before oil can start circulating. So when you have these big, empty drums attached to your motor, you are actually starving your motor of oil when you first turn her on.

So for regular driving, smaller is better.

Thoughts?

 

[Shannow]

Holden had that issue when they went into the 80s.

The filter (Our reference Z30) was too long to fill, and had clattery lifters for too long, especially compared to what was coming from elsewhere, so Holden installed a volumetricaly very much smaller filter...which I used religiously, for much the same reson as your question.

 

[JamesBond]

There is a 1996 tercel auto in the family and I use 5w30 and the stock size filter. I always have 5w20 on the shelf but choose to use the 5w30 in the tercel.

I use the same oil and filter in the 1992 celica we have also. The both run and sound great, why change what works.

 

[Speed_Racer]

James Bond speaks the truth.

I've been reading a lot of message boards over the past few hours and I've come to a realization that perhaps all of you already knew...

The Tercel is what she is.

Don't weird her out with synthetic oils, hyper-maintenance, and Purolator Pure One L22821 oil filters. That's just not her thing. If you want to make her happy, change the oil once a year and throw in a Fram from Walmart. There, you've just done more maintenance than 90% of all Tercel owners.

If you really want to make her toes curl, consider using OEM parts twice a year. Beyond that, you'll likely just irritate her. She's just not a high maintenance girl. Her engine tolerances are too loose and sloppy, the finer things are lost on her. Literally. I'm willing to wager, actually, that the 10w30 on the cap is really what she was designed for. Not because its the best motor oil, but because it was what was most likely to be dumped in her.

My final thoughts for all those seeking an optimal relationship with your Tercel:

Skip the chocolates, and get the cheap beer.

That's the way to her heart.

All the best,
SR

 

[Xeno]

We've had a 96 4 speed manual in our family for about 15 years. Ours has 210k miles, and it eats through oil, about a quart every 3k miles. We don't even bother changing the oil on it because of that, just the oil filter. She usually has a steady diet of 10w-40, even 20w-50, of whatever oil is the cheapest.

Not bad for 1.5L with a 3qt sump. Clutch is still solid too, even after I abused it in my teens. Here's hoping it makes it to 300k miles.