Why the auto repair industry gets a bad rep

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Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
It only takes a few bad shops to make problems for all the rest.


So true. You rarely hear from the gazillions who get work done and everything is just fine.

Then again, I wonder how many got thoroughly screwed and didn't even know...



Ding, ding, ding!

I know how to do basic work on my cars, and even the things I can't do myself I have learned enough that it is nearly impossible to [censored] me...

I have had a MULTITUDE of horrid experiences at both $tealerships and independents as well, it ranges from poor work, dishonestly, overpriced work,incompetence, even outright LIES to my face, and then some of these shady outfits have the unmitigated gall to
get obnoxious and cop an attitude, and yell at me when I politely call them on their fraudulent business practices.

Fact is that I would say the number of honest shops is the definite MINORITY when compared to dishonest and incompetent ones.

I stand by my statement that the ENTIRE auto repair industry in the US rightly deserves the sleazy reputation they have among consumers.


+100

Just imagine the amount of cumulative economic waste from the 3000 mile oil changes, unnecessary work and incompetent work, all in pursuit of profit.

The majority of the industry is immoral and criminal in my opinion.
 
Previous owner was very transparent about cost and labor. He was always busy, and often had mechanics working late, or even in weekends if an out of towner had problems. Markups were fair,and labor was done by time on job, if job was done faster than quote, he charged lower amount. New owner jacked up markup and labor, has had to lay off 2 of 4 mechanics because business has fallen off so much.
 
Totally agree with this.

Remember when I was dating my now wife in 1992. She had a 1987 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z. She took it to a Firestone for an OC and they gave her the song and dance about how bad the brakes were and the damage would be over $700.

I took the car to the shop that did my work. Damage was $145 OTD.
An honest and competent mechanic is worth his or her weight in gold.
 
I can't stand dishonest shops. My Sister had a problem with her rear hatch not opening. The dealer quoted her $1300 to fix it. She called me and I steered her to an honest shop I know of. They fixed her car using factory parts for $300. My Sister was pretty happy with the results.
 
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: Inspecktor
Last year daughter #2 was home from college on spring break. Mom drives daughter's car the day before she is to go back to school, finds out rear brakes are making a lot of noise(daughter not car savvy). She calls me at work, wondering what to do. I told her to call a local indy shop we use once in a while, which she does, and they get it in. Rear brake job came to $875! When I got home, the shop is closed, so i go over the invoice. Every part they installed the price listed was twice what I can get them for over the counter at my local parts store. The next week, I go in to argue with the owner. Basically, I am told the work was authorized by my wife, no refunds. They did offer a credit for future work, but I will never go there. The shop changed owners a couple years ago, went from a good fair shop to a rip off the customer place.


It's a rip, but 50% mark up on parts by a repair shop is nothing out of the ordinary.


It's standard business. At our shop our parts markup is at least 50%, it's more for lower cost parts. We do quality work, but even some months it's all we can do to break even after paying all the expenses that go into running the business.

We have the liability and have to honor warranty, so the markups have to be higher. If you can get the parts and do a professional installation yourself, more power to you. You can go to the store and buy hamburger yourself for less than half the price of a restaurant, it's the same situation just people don't see it like that for vehicles.
 
Originally Posted By: msmoke00
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: Inspecktor
Last year daughter #2 was home from college on spring break. Mom drives daughter's car the day before she is to go back to school, finds out rear brakes are making a lot of noise(daughter not car savvy). She calls me at work, wondering what to do. I told her to call a local indy shop we use once in a while, which she does, and they get it in. Rear brake job came to $875! When I got home, the shop is closed, so i go over the invoice. Every part they installed the price listed was twice what I can get them for over the counter at my local parts store. The next week, I go in to argue with the owner. Basically, I am told the work was authorized by my wife, no refunds. They did offer a credit for future work, but I will never go there. The shop changed owners a couple years ago, went from a good fair shop to a rip off the customer place.


It's a rip, but 50% mark up on parts by a repair shop is nothing out of the ordinary.


It's standard business. At our shop our parts markup is at least 50%, it's more for lower cost parts. We do quality work, but even some months it's all we can do to break even after paying all the expenses that go into running the business.

We have the liability and have to honor warranty, so the markups have to be higher. If you can get the parts and do a professional installation yourself, more power to you. You can go to the store and buy hamburger yourself for less than half the price of a restaurant, it's the same situation just people don't see it like that for vehicles.


I agree. After having been a DIY'er for all of my driving life, it was a bit hard to make the adjustment. We do 30% for most things, but don't have much overhead. Without the markup, it'd be hard to keep the lights on and account for any warranty issues (none yet). We have a few customers that DIY for the "light work" and take it to a shop for the "heavy work" and it can be difficult to make them understand why the same or similar part is more expensive through us. So far the end result has been a happy customer in all cases, as they wouldn't have been able to make the repair, the job was done well and at a fair rate; usually lower than competing shops.
 
Wife was told she needs her timing belt changed. Her engine does not have a timing belt.

I was told the reason my car was overheating was not the leak in my radiator hose gushing fluid, but the fact that I need a new computer due to it not turning on the fan when it should. It should be noted that I brought the car in with a coolant leak because I needed the hose fixed (apartment complex would not let me do my own work, but I knew exactly what was wrong with it).
 
Originally Posted By: Anduril
Wife was told she needs her timing belt changed. Her engine does not have a timing belt.

I was told the reason my car was overheating was not the leak in my radiator hose gushing fluid, but the fact that I need a new computer due to it not turning on the fan when it should. It should be noted that I brought the car in with a coolant leak because I needed the hose fixed (apartment complex would not let me do my own work, but I knew exactly what was wrong with it).



Did an actual mechanic tell you this or just some hair brained service writer?
 
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: Anduril
Wife was told she needs her timing belt changed. Her engine does not have a timing belt.

I was told the reason my car was overheating was not the leak in my radiator hose gushing fluid, but the fact that I need a new computer due to it not turning on the fan when it should. It should be noted that I brought the car in with a coolant leak because I needed the hose fixed (apartment complex would not let me do my own work, but I knew exactly what was wrong with it).



Did an actual mechanic tell you this or just some hair brained service writer?


I doubt the SW was "hair brained" more like crooked and
thieving.
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Local garage has been good to me; they could have "gotten me" for years on my Jetta at inspection, but have not. Heck my wife has pulled in once or twice, and they've looked at her car, told her what it was, and sent her on her way, no bill!

I'd like to keep them around, too bad I've been doing more of my own work lately. Plus, they are more of a "drop it off for the day" sort of shop, which just doesn't work well for me (at least not until I got to N+1 vehicles).

Well, I think I'll toss them the axle job on my Jetta--I just tried to budge the axle nut, not moving for me.

Dealership, well... Good/bad, I dunno. They certainly don't take apart the brakes every rotation and lube them (like I do). They also screwed up not one but two lugnuts so far, first by cross threading, second, not sure what they did but they managed to damage a thread anyhow. Kinda hard to justify paying them $100+/hour for that kind of service, I don't care how nice their waiting area is.
 
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I took apart the brakes yesterday. While the pads had some wear they were certainly not "one panic stop away from failure" like the shop told her. I recommended replacing them in a few thousand miles and that will give her a chance to save up for the pads and rotors.

I'm not sure how shop employees can sleep at night when they use the scare tactic on their customers.
 
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071

I'm not sure how shop employees can sleep at night when they use the scare tactic on their customers.


Let me be the devil's advocate here for a second. I don't like shops or dealers any more than the next person and that is the reason I do all the work, within my abilities, on our cars, but looking at the general driving public, we are the reason for this state of affairs.

People simply expect cheap $20-$30 oil changes all day long. They expect to have a shuttle or a rental, they expect to have a nice latte or a coffee, TV room and nice magazines to read while they wait. These things aren't free and I have absolutely no ill feelings for shops to upsell stuff. They are not charities.
You will notice that usually a good indy will have some crummy waiting room with few magazines that are really old and that's about it.

There are exceptions of course, but repairing cars is not an easy business to be in, because people's expectations and the "I deserve" factor are in all-time high, but their willingness to pay is in all-time low.


These shop employees don't get paid all that much for what they do and are trying to make a living. Is it such a big deal for them to recommend brake pad change few thousand miles earlier? I don't think it is.
I can name quite a few other occupations where people's morals are far more compromised or downright non-existent.
 
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Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
I took apart the brakes yesterday. While the pads had some wear they were certainly not "one panic stop away from failure" like the shop told her. I recommended replacing them in a few thousand miles and that will give her a chance to save up for the pads and rotors.

I'm not sure how shop employees can sleep at night when they use the scare tactic on their customers.


How thick was the material that was left on the pads? Any pictures?
 
Originally Posted By: Inspecktor
Previous owner was very transparent about cost and labor. He was always busy, and often had mechanics working late, or even in weekends if an out of towner had problems. Markups were fair,and labor was done by time on job, if job was done faster than quote, he charged lower amount. New owner jacked up markup and labor, has had to lay off 2 of 4 mechanics because business has fallen off so much.

hack, i wonder why the original owner sell the shop at the first place? I have a friend own a honest shop, but he told me it's very tiring, and didn't make much more then high rank mechanic in dealership. he also have to bear risk of running a business. he close the shop and become 8to4 weekday in dealership and some fun work on weekend, i think he is happier now. maybe he is just not a business man...
good shop are hard to come by, and that is the reason I tried to do most of work myself. but the inflation driving up price on everything. I haven't have a raise in past 6 years, but i notice the price on utility, food, etc, and somewhat sympathy to the honest shop around the city. if they peg the price to inflation index then we would see 10% every few years!!
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
. . . You will notice that usually a good indy will have some crummy waiting room with few magazines that are really old and that's about it.

There are exceptions of course, but repairing cars is not an easy business to be in, because people's expectations and the "I deserve" factor are in all-time high, but their willingness to pay is in all-time low. . . .

My regular mechanic's shop is like that. Some of his magazines are older classic-car and Mercedes magazines that I brought in myself!

And yes, Americans have been conditioned to consider any purchase primarily on the basis of price. Never mind quality or longevity -- price is everything.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
but looking at the general driving public, we are the reason for this state of affairs


That really sums it up. Shops operate the way they do because, believe it or not, it's what the average customer seems to want. People in general are more responsive to gimmicks and yes/no pressure than they are to good advice.

You tell someone they need to do something soon, and it just gets brushed off as not really needed. "You need brakes soon" is interpreted as "you don't need brakes today, so run them until the rotors and possibly calipers are trashed."

People also rationalize things like this: "the brakes are $150, but the engine flush is just $29.99...I'll just do the engine flush." They view it like giving the car a treat, even if they are just throwing away money that could be saved towards the needed brake job.

It's also a liability for a shop to say something like brakes will be safe for x amount of miles. It's less of a liability to tell a customer they need brakes right away.

When you try to explain why a repair is needed to the average customer, the explanation usually goes way over their head, even if you dumb it down. A lot of times when this happens, the customer just locks up because they are confused. That's why most shops stick to just price and say something like "if you don't fix this, the brakes will quit working." People understand "it's gonna quit working," they do not understand "if you let the pads get down to the backing plates, it will tear up the rotors and possibly the calipers, making the repair more expensive." Customers don't want to hear that...they want a price and want to know if the car will blow up or break down.

It's very frustrating for people who know their cars well and have a basic understanding of mechanical concepts, but the vast majority of customers have no clue. Shops are used to dealing with and selling to those customers. Someone who knows their car is something out of the ordinary.

Another thing - there has been a cultural shift in attitudes towards maintaining and repairing cars. People used to take some pride in knowing a little about their cars. That is gone for most. Most people take pride in being totally ignorant about cars because they think working on or even knowing about mechanical things is beneath them. Someone else is just supposed to know, and cut them a deal/do work for free. I have encountered that attitude many times.
 
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I look for body and mechanic shops that really have to be searched for, that spend no money on advertising or a website and that have the dirtiest and tiniest or even better, non-existent waiting rooms. It's a method that has worked in this state.
 
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl

Another thing - there has been a cultural shift in attitudes towards maintaining and repairing cars. People used to take some pride in knowing a little about their cars. That is gone for most. Most people take pride in being totally ignorant about cars because they think working on or even knowing about mechanical things is beneath them. Someone else is just supposed to know, and cut them a deal/do work for free. I have encountered that attitude many times.

that is so sad...
for the topic, my view of a regular maintenance usually occurred every 3000-5000 miles depend type of work. but if the shop expect something would failed in that period, then they shall tell customer and recommend for repair.
looks like there are a few mechanics on this thread, can i ask a question? how does shop or mechanics's view on the customer who do light maintenance on their own car? are we pain in the butt to deal with? or we make car repair pleasant because we understand and respect of their work more? just curious. (of course my mechanics friends tell me lots of tell of good/bad customers, but he never tell me about DIY, not sure if he does not want to offend me or something...) thanks!
 
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
I took apart the brakes yesterday. While the pads had some wear they were certainly not "one panic stop away from failure" like the shop told her. I recommended replacing them in a few thousand miles and that will give her a chance to save up for the pads and rotors.

I'm not sure how shop employees can sleep at night when they use the scare tactic on their customers.


Sure. It's liability. If they say nothing and she gets in an accident they can get nailed for failing to inspect things or not noting it on an inspection report.

They don't know her driving patterns. If she did all stop & go, that "few thousand miles" could get eaten up quite quickly. If it's mostly highway it could be a lot more (the brakes on my Taurus are 69k or so old - replaced @ 10k under warranty) time. The shop has no way of knowing how she drives!

The pads themselves account for some thermal mass so in a back to back panic situation, they may go out quicker as they will heat up a lot faster.

So, yeah it may have not been bad by your standards because you know the person and how they drive. By the sounds of it, they are almost worn out so the suggestion is not without merit.

One of the things I like about the inspection done by the Ford dealer is that they put a measurement to the pad life and have a handy Green/Yellow/Red chart above it to show you what they consider Good/Caution/Danger. Takes a lot of guess work out for the consumer as they can see where they fall.
 
Originally Posted By: gogozy


looks like there are a few mechanics on this thread, can i ask a question? how does shop or mechanics's view on the customer who do light maintenance on their own car? are we pain in the butt to deal with? or we make car repair pleasant because we understand and respect of their work more? just curious. (of course my mechanics friends tell me lots of tell of good/bad customers, but he never tell me about DIY, not sure if he does not want to offend me or something...) thanks!


That probably comes down to the individual mechanic and the individual customer.

When I worked on cars, I didn't mind competent DIYers at all because I could actually explain things to them without having to dumb things down to a ridiculous level. The manager sometimes thought I explained too much and might have cost us a job, but I didn't see it that way. For one, competent DIYers will research a repair before committing to it regardless of what you tell them. Second, if you give an accurate explanation, and their own research backs up what you say, they will be more likely to trust you for the things they don't want to do.

What I didn't like was people who would try a hack job repair, then want it fixed right after coating the part in JB Weld or whatever. Or people who thought they knew a lot about cars, but really had no clue. Also, people who expect a free diagnosis so they can swap the part on their own.

In my experience, the competent DIYers were among the best customers.

Some service writers probably feel differently about that because their pay is based on the jobs they sell. Still, they probably prefer a DIYer to someone who is in a panic because they don't understand what is broken or why it costs money to fix it.

The 99% of customers who don't have a clue are why I now work in parts instead of service. I still deal with a lot of idiots, but the ratio is much more manageable.
 
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