So, Fram filters...why the bad rap?

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Quote:
Basically poor quality control and cardboard end caps and you can do better for same price. If the cardboard end caps were so good, they would use them in their more expensive filters


My computer decided to update in the middle of this. Moderators please delete my above post.

Anyhow,

+1. Frams bottom filters like the OCOD, the "tough gaurd" and the "high mileage" are just overally pretty junky and suffer from poor build quality IMO. They will say that cardboard endcaps offer the same or even better durability over metal ones

, but common sense should dictate otherwise. If a structural component has to get wet, it should be understood that metal is always a stronger option than paper! I will say this though, their premium filters (which have metal end caps BTW) are beasts and I would use those with confidence. In all honesty, if the OCOD had metal end caps, I would use those as well! I may even pay an extra 50cents! But in the real world, cardboard and glue are better suited for childrens are projects, not oil filters!

You say "cardboard" end caps get wet and common sense tells you they will fail because of that? The media gets wet too. Other than synthetic media/ blends, filter companies use paper cellulose for their media and it gets plenty wet..

Your method of thinking reminds me of Volkswagen when they used a metal screen as an oil filter.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
They will say that cardboard endcaps offer the same or even better durability over metal ones

, but common sense should dictate otherwise.


"common sense" is neither common, nor sensible...

Bonding dissimilar materials is always more of a challenge. Their highest end filter follows the same construction technique as their lower-end filter--bonding similar materials.

It's interesting that pretty much all of the Purololator torn filters are defective near the end cap/media joint.

The whole Fram-bashing thing is a classic case of tribalism in action: people want to feel they have some "special knowledge" about something, so they pontificate about "metal end caps" being better. The reality is that fiber end caps work well.

 

[fdcg27]

There are those with actual experience while there are also those who merely parrot what others have written with some added adjectives.
There are also those who think that they have a better grasp of materials suitability than do major manufacturers.
I used Fram orange cans for decades with no problems.
I drank the koolaide here and ran Purolators for about five years, since they were said to be better made filters at a better price.
You don't hear that here anymore.
I've stocked up on Frams that should last for the next couple of years. I've got four Ultras for the '12 Accord and a couple of TGs and many EGs for everything else.
Lowes offered awesome clearance deals on the TGs and EGs, like less than thirty cents each.
In addition to the media tears seen with current Purolators, I've seen gasket seep with them as well.
Never saw either with any Fram.
Ignore what the dittoheads repeat ad naseum about Fram oil filters.

 

[jk_636]

It is hilarious to watch people run purolator classics until kingdom come then cry when one pleat tears...one pleat! But if you bash Fram OCODs, my goodness, the whole Fram community comes down on you. It is cyclical. Looking through old threads, it is apparent that people will bash fram, then purolator, then something else comes along as the flavor of the weeek and that will be the new "can of death!"

 

[440Magnum]

I've had a couple of the low-end "orange can of death" Fram filters completely collapse and pack themselves around the center steel tube, cutting oil pressure down to bare minimum and turning on the oil lamp at idle. Found the cause on cutting the filters open. Granted, this was in the late 80s and early 90s. But the basic Fram is still using the same design. It gets the job done for most applications, but there's no margin for error. Higher than average oil flow- it may collapse. Extended OCI- don't even bother.

Sorry Motorking- I'm sure Wix marketing hurt Fram somewhat, but I was there and saw the reputation get earned fair and square. Wix just pounced because they saw an actual weakness in the product. But hey, don't get me started on Wix and the lousy specs on their synthetic media filter, either!

That said, the Fram Ultra filter line is a superb product. In today's market, I'd say the base-model Fram is the only one to be avoided. By the same token, I avoid the base model of *most* car parts- I don't buy the cheapest tires, the cheapest bulk oil, the cheapest belts and hoses, brake pads, rotors, ignition wires, spark plugs, nor the cheapest shock absorbers.

 

[ForceFedMopar]

I would tend to agree with you there, I don't like the cheapest brands of anything myself. My '01 4.7 Durango actually had a Fram TG IIRC when I got it, I took it off and tossed it due to the "Fram is bad" mentality, replaced it with a Microgard from work (I work at Oreilly's), supposedly they are made by Wix now. Ever since the chains have rattled more than they used to (need to be replaced, just expensive to do so) on cold start-up.

Oil is due for a change, so I think I'll grab a load of Pennz Platinum (which I also want to try out) and a UG filter and give it a try.

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
But in the real world, cardboard and glue are better suited for childrens are projects, not oil filters!

Regarding the so called "cardboard"/fiberboard end caps, do you feel the same about "micarta"? After all it's little else than paper and resin.

 

[SilverC6]

He's not talking about micarta.

Instead, he's talking about the flimsy, easily distorted end caps on some FRAM filters.

 

[HKPolice]

+1
If the oil gets contaminated with water then the cardboard end caps can get soggy and fold in. This can easily happen with frequent short trips and a long length of time (not mileage) between changes. I've seen a lot of cut open Frams with this failure.

This isn't an issue for most drivers who get their oil up to operating temp every day though. For the drivers who have to short trip often, Fram Ultra is one of the best.

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I've had a couple of the low-end "orange can of death" Fram filters completely collapse and pack themselves around the center steel tube, cutting oil pressure down to bare minimum and turning on the oil lamp at idle. Found the cause on cutting the filters open. Granted, this was in the late 80s and early 90s. But the basic Fram is still using the same design. It gets the job done for most applications, but there's no margin for error. Higher than average oil flow- it may collapse. Extended OCI- don't even bother.

Sorry Motorking- I'm sure Wix marketing hurt Fram somewhat, but I was there and saw the reputation get earned fair and square. Wix just pounced because they saw an actual weakness in the product. But hey, don't get me started on Wix and the lousy specs on their synthetic media filter, either!

That said, the Fram Ultra filter line is a superb product. In today's market, I'd say the base-model Fram is the only one to be avoided. By the same token, I avoid the base model of *most* car parts- I don't buy the cheapest tires, the cheapest bulk oil, the cheapest belts and hoses, brake pads, rotors, ignition wires, spark plugs, nor the cheapest shock absorbers.

 

[chainblu]

I've used orange Frams (among other filters) for over 30 years and never had a problem. Can't say the same for Purolator. Cut open a 6500 mile OCI Classic last month and it had not one, but two torn pleats.

Metal end caps don't mean diddly if the rest of the filter is rubbish.

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
He's not talking about micarta.

Instead, he's talking about the flimsy, easily distorted end caps on some FRAM filters.



^This

 

[bammer5609]

I have been watching and reading the "Fram is junk" and "Fram is good " on this site for a few years now. It is funny how people who have no engineering background can say how good one thing is over another just by looking at it. If Fram was really as bad as the internet has portrayed, then they would have went under a long time ago.

Also, some of you on this site are wayyyyyy to anal about something as simple as an oil filter. Yes, it dose a very important job on a motor, but for something so small and in an environment it has to work in, what is out there seems to work just fine. Don't loose sleep because you read something or heard someones friends uncles dads grandfather had a XXXX brand filter blow up and take out his engine and you have one on the car right now and don't know if it will last for 5000km.

Do filters fail, considering the millions upon millions that are made yearly, yes some will fail. Dose that make brand A worse then brand B? I use whatever I find that fits my OCI and at a good price, for where I am it is usually Fram, just because it is more common, plus it is usually the cheapest. I have used Purolator, Ford OEM, Canadian tire brand, Quakerstate, and Bosch, and Fram. As I said, I primarily use Fram and in the 20+years of driving have had no failures with any filters. Are they the best? There is always something better. Between 2 cars right now, 350,000+kms combined using mostly Canadian Tire and Fram filters.

Really it comes down to this, if you don't like it don't use. Just saying "they are junk" without having any other input….

Kinda the same, isn't it.

I think if you stay with any of the brand names you will have no problems, but let the Fram thing rest. I like the information that can be had here, but leave it at that. Post the pics , but one or two, or even 20 or 30 failures in a market that has millions worldwide is not something to get worked up about.

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: bammer5609
I have been watching and reading the "Fram is junk" and "Fram is good " on this site for a few years now. It is funny how people who have no engineering background can say how good one thing is over another just by looking at it. If Fram was really as bad as the internet has portrayed, then they would have went under a long time ago.

Also, some of you on this site are wayyyyyy to anal about something as simple as an oil filter. Yes, it dose a very important job on a motor, but for something so small and in an environment it has to work in, what is out there seems to work just fine. Don't loose sleep because you read something or heard someones friends uncles dads grandfather had a XXXX brand filter blow up and take out his engine and you have one on the car right now and don't know if it will last for 5000km.

Do filters fail, considering the millions upon millions that are made yearly, yes some will fail. Dose that make brand A worse then brand B? I use whatever I find that fits my OCI and at a good price, for where I am it is usually Fram, just because it is more common, plus it is usually the cheapest. I have used Purolator, Ford OEM, Canadian tire brand, Quakerstate, and Bosch, and Fram. As I said, I primarily use Fram and in the 20+years of driving have had no failures with any filters. Are they the best? There is always something better. Between 2 cars right now, 350,000+kms combined using mostly Canadian Tire and Fram filters.

Really it comes down to this, if you don't like it don't use. Just saying "they are junk" without having any other input….

Kinda the same, isn't it.

I think if you stay with any of the brand names you will have no problems, but let the Fram thing rest. I like the information that can be had here, but leave it at that. Post the pics , but one or two, or even 20 or 30 failures in a market that has millions worldwide is not something to get worked up about.




Welcome to BITOG.

That is quite the first post...though I fundamentally disagree, I'm glad to see that we are getting different viewpoints in this, which is sure to be a several page, discussion!

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
He's not talking about micarta.

Instead, he's talking about the flimsy, easily distorted end caps on some FRAM filters.



Ya I know, I know, but the fact is they work!

 

[Brian Barnhart]

Unlike most product failures, oil filter failures typically go undetected. Were it not for cutting filters open, the majority of oil filter media tears would go unnoticed. ADBV failures may also go unnoticed or may be incorrectly diagnosed; the start-up noise is "cured" by an oil change (that changes the defective filter).

On the positive side, most oil filter failures do little harm to engine life. But that also makes it possible to sell a low quality product with little risk of high warranty costs.

 

[901Memphis]

Fram > everything else

 

[jk_636]

Quote:
...But that also makes it possible to sell a low quality product with little risk of high warranty costs...


And there in lies the success of the OCOD!

 

[jrmason]

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/threa...ht=Fram+filters

I want to share an interesting post regarding this very topic. I am acquainted with the guy that started the thread and I will say he is a very credible source (taken with a grain of salt considering I am now into my second post here!!)

I would be very interested to hear what Motorking has to say in regards to this, if there is any truth to it. If there is, I think it's safe to say Fram is capable of a quality filter.
That, OR perhaps Am$oils standards aren't quite what they would like everybody to believe

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
It is hilarious to watch people run purolator classics until kingdom come then cry when one pleat tears...one pleat! But if you bash Fram OCODs, my goodness, the whole Fram community comes down on you. It is cyclical. Looking through old threads, it is apparent that people will bash fram, then purolator, then something else comes along as the flavor of the weeek and that will be the new "can of death!"


Judging by one of your previous posts, you choose not to run Fram because the insides get wet. I don't consider that bashing.. Most here consider that being uneducated.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: jrmason
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/threa...ht=Fram+filters

I want to share an interesting post regarding this very topic. I am acquainted with the guy that started the thread and I will say he is a very credible source (taken with a grain of salt considering I am now into my second post here!!)

I would be very interested to hear what Motorking has to say in regards to this, if there is any truth to it. If there is, I think it's safe to say Fram is capable of a quality filter.
That, OR perhaps Am$oils standards aren't quite what they would like everybody to believe

Very interesting indeed.