Synthetic cold flow vs conventional

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Hi,
babbittd - This may assist in your ponderings, this excerpt is from an article in LUBE REPORT, Volume 12, Issue 14 from 12/4/2012 concerning Daimler AGs lubricant development programme, it gives some insight into the needs of continuing lubricant development.

“The upgrade is also awaiting completion of a CEC bench test for low-temperature pumpability of aged oils. Such a test became a priority for European automakers after a rash of engine failures suffered in Europe during an extreme cold spate in the winter of 2008-2009. The failures were attributed to engine oils that turned to gel.”
 
Hi Doug, I can only say that I'm thankful that in Massachusetts we do not have to worry about those types of extremely cold temperatures. I'm trying to figure out if it's worth putting a synthetic, even if it's "only" Supertech, in my beater Taurus, when it comes time to the change the oil next, which will be before the winter.
 
Hi,
babbittd - Best then to use the viscosity mentioned in your Handbook - it matters little if its a mineral or synthetic lubricant

Unless its OEM mandated most people do not get a true benefit from using a synthetic over a mineral lubricant
 
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
babbittd - Best then to use the viscosity mentioned in your Handbook - it matters little if its a mineral or synthetic lubricant

Unless its OEM mandated most people do not get a true benefit from using a synthetic over a mineral lubricant


That's what I'm going to do, 5W20 conventional. Most of the driving is non-highway and short trips so I am leaning towards splitting the difference on the severe and normal maint. schedule, for a 4000 mile OCI, until/unless I send for a UOA.
 
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
babbittd - This may assist in your ponderings, this excerpt is from an article in LUBE REPORT, Volume 12, Issue 14 from 12/4/2012 concerning Daimler AGs lubricant development programme, it gives some insight into the needs of continuing lubricant development.

“The upgrade is also awaiting completion of a CEC bench test for low-temperature pumpability of aged oils. Such a test became a priority for European automakers after a rash of engine failures suffered in Europe during an extreme cold spate in the winter of 2008-2009. The failures were attributed to engine oils that turned to gel.”




Thanks Doug!
I guess my habit of changing oil around November-December time frame is spot on, even though it is driven by a gut feeling, plus I hate changing oil in the middle of winter
wink.gif
 
Pour point is not useless. You do understand that the oil must return back to the pan when cold using gravity and not a mechanical pump.
Where are the MRV and CCS reducing additives?
I bet that your oil has PPD's.
 
Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
Pour point is not useless. You do understand that the oil must return back to the pan when cold using gravity and not a mechanical pump.
Where are the MRV and CCS reducing additives?


Go to the bottom of the data sheet and check there.
Afton VIIs
 
Marketed and advertised as "VM" or "VII" even if their intended or secondary purpose is ccs/mrv improving.

Afton's sn/gf5 11100 has ppd in it. Competitors offer equivalent sn/gf5 with or without ppd.

The point I'm making is pour point is important. And, there are no additives strictly marketed as an mrv or ccs improver only, since it is addressed with base oil or VM selection.

http://www.aftonchemical.com/Solutions/LubricantComponents/Pages/LubricantComponents.aspx
 
how much does the CCS V test tell about an oils function in colder temps. i see lots of different #'s for same viscosity + i do realize real synthetics group IV + V are superior, especially as oils are tested NEW + as time + miles add up its fragile additives deteriorate + the high $$ real synthetics are still almost like new!!
 
Originally Posted By: milkboy
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
so if your whatever you want to sell isnt there then yoir stuff stay in their respective place.


This bears repeating.


THIS!! I really was trying so hard to figure out [censored] was being said there.
 
I give equal consideration to both extended drains AND cold flow properties in deciding to use a synthetic. I experience temp extremes in both directions where I live. Unfortunately, that has not been the case this year. We've barely been over 90 degrees this year and this is the earliest temps have gotten this cool (down in the 40 's) since the late 1880's. I suspect cold flow properties will be a big benefit this year. I had hoped to go 8k-10k miles on my oil, which would have put me into December. If temps continue to get low and stay there, I will do an early oil change and be good till spring.
 
Originally Posted By: otis24
I experience temp extremes in both directions where I live. Unfortunately, that has not been the case this year. We've barely been over 90 degrees this year and this is the earliest temps have gotten this cool (down in the 40 's) since the late 1880's.

Stop reminding me!
wink.gif
 
I will stick with synthetics regardless for one reason: the unknown. If reports are true (or even worse) about the upcoming winter, I would much rather be prepared.

They still provide a few extra benefits (which all were used last winter) worth the extra few bucks.

Wouldn't cheap out on the car this winter....
 
What people keep discounting is that in the grand scheme of things, the price difference is pretty much nil. My OCIs will average 6months/10k miles. At about $6 difference per 5 qt container between conventional and synthetic, that is $1 per month. Pretty sure that wont break the bank!
 
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IMO if you live south of about 39* North Latitude, you can run dino all year round and never worry. North of that and synthetic may have value for you, depending on where you live in the US.


And agree with this:

Originally Posted By: otis24
What people keep discounting is that in the grand scheme of things, the price difference is pretty much nil. My OCIs will average 6months/10k miles. At about $6 difference per 5 qt container between conventional and synthetic, that is $1 per month. Pretty sure that wont break the bank!


So if there's any question about what your winter temperatures will be, err on the safe side.***








***(insert discussion here about how people have used dino motor oil since the first cars were made)
 
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