Lower Priced Indian Models

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Originally Posted By: whip
Can you list the other companies your boycotting? I have a feeling I'll be waiting a long time.

If I could predict the stock market, half as well as I can predict motorcycle threads, I'd be a billionaire.
 
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: grampi
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There are two types of people in here; ...


You forgot type three, the Harley hater who turns every thread into a Harley bash and provides wrong "facts" or no "facts".

These are very similar to the Fram bashers that continually state that everyone knows how FRAMs failed right and left yet cannot provide a single example of said widespread problem...



You guys crack me up...just because something is posted without links you claim it isn't true...you want to be spoon fed information...it's ok for you to research something yourself so long as it supports your side of the argument, but if someone disagrees with you then you claim they can't prove it, there source of info is no good, they're lying, or they're just a hater, and you won't do any research yourself on the matter...that just sounds to me like that person's mind is already made up and NO amount of information that refutes their view is going to change their minds....just keep telling yourselves your view is the correct one...if you do it long enough then it must be so...
 
The heritage comments got me thinking. The fact the Indian isn't tightly tied to their heritage is a good thing to me. Harley's core business is the cruisers powered by 45 degree V-twin that has to sound like a potato. Harley can make other bikes like the VROD and Street models, but they're core customers aren't buying those.
Indian's Hands aren't tied by their heritage. If they want to make a V4 or an inline 6, they can. Down the road, they can make sport touring or adventure bikes if they think they'll sell. They can take sales from Harley with traditional cruisers, and they can take sales from the likes of Honda and BMW.
10 years down the road, Polaris might be fighting Honda for top sales while Harley fans continue to not worry about them.
 
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
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As for the heads up between the CB1100, the Scout, and the Sporty 1200...I would like to see just how close to a VRSC in performance this new Indian is more than see it up up against the much smaller and weaker Triumph 865cc engine which has about 60 hp at the crank. I love my Triumph, but it won't set the world on fire and it is outgunned by a 1200 sportster in stock form.


I think the VRSC is about 123 or so HP and is also quite a bit more expensive...

As for the CB1100, Triumph and Sportster it think that the out come of that match up will depend much more on how one weights the factors than the bikes themselves.

It will be interesting to see how the wheel HP shakes out on the Indian, in other words how efficient the power transmission after the crank is.

Sportster fans have been asking for a sporty Sportster for a while, the sportiest chassis is no longer available in the US and is an 883 in other markets. (883R) There was in the past a 1200S (and 12000X) model. The parts exist to make a very sporty Sportster. Perhaps the Scout sells and this pushes the MoCo to produce a 1200R or 1200S model or even something with a revolution to compete, perhaps the Scout doesn't sell great and we find out it isn't what people are looking for. I personally think water cooled was a mistake and no ABS was a mistake and no wire wheels was a mistake... I know if I'm looking for a 100 HP water cooled V Twin, my first stop is Ducati... (the same 11,000.00 will buy me a Monster 821) If I'm looking for a nostalgic cruiser, my first stop is the MoCo... and I'm not thinking 100 HP...
 
There is one thing BigCahuna pointed out that is a strong point or really a concept and that is that style-wise the Harley-Davidson line is timeless in appearance. That is, there is no year by year styling trend that will make a new one look out of style in ten years. You see style-fade in the automotive industry, and virtually everywhere except aviation. You can take a 1975 Cessna 172 that is in good cosmetic condition and park it next to a 1999 and a 2009 and unless you're an aviation geek you won't be able to tell which is which. Similar with HD's, to a point. Not so with a lot of other bikes. Love my Multistrada, but talk about trendy (if not quirky) styling. I know it will start looking dated as the years pass. Of course, most of that concern isn't a concern for me, as I factored it in when choosing to buy. I do like what Indian is doing in keeping a timeless look within the spirit of the former company's lineup.
 
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
There is one thing BigCahuna pointed out that is a strong point or really a concept and that is that style-wise the Harley-Davidson line is timeless in appearance. That is, there is no year by year styling trend that will make a new one look out of style in ten years. You see style-fade in the automotive industry, and virtually everywhere except aviation. You can take a 1975 Cessna 172 that is in good cosmetic condition and park it next to a 1999 and a 2009 and unless you're an aviation geek you won't be able to tell which is which. Similar with HD's, to a point. Not so with a lot of other bikes. Love my Multistrada, but talk about trendy (if not quirky) styling. I know it will start looking dated as the years pass. Of course, most of that concern isn't a concern for me, as I factored it in when choosing to buy. I do like what Indian is doing in keeping a timeless look within the spirit of the former company's lineup.


What you call a timeless look I call dated...most Harley and Indian models look like they're straight out of the 1950s...apparently the people who buy these bikes like that look, but some prefer a more modern look...
 
I have not a single problem with harley styling what so ever. And I think the new Street series revolution motors might have enough room to bore and stroke them into something with more performance. A 1000cc Street might be the answer. Harley is trying out new ideas and I applaud them for that. If they want to stay competitive in the long run they need to appeal to a broader section of potential buyers.

As for liquid cooled well again I am surprised Victory did not get this motor first as it seemed a better fit for that brand. But we must remember it is very hard to get really good performance with air/oil cooled motors these days and meet the ever tightening emissions requirements.
 
Looks like the oil change kits include (4) quarts of 25w60 oil, filter and crush washer.
 
The scout looks nice, although stylistically they really should do something about the radiator just hanging out there. From the rear it has a very nice look; which will probably be where most of the Harley's see it from.. The motor puts out good power and it's not too heavy. I'm not particularly into cruisers(sportbike guy) but this one is "not too bad".

Who cares if it's a new company with an old name. The design and build are far more important to me than heritage. Look at Harley's they have tons of heritage, but have antiquated designs and very poor build quality; not bashing, just saying.
 
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I've had the chance to ride all of the Indian models, this Summer. The Roadmaster and Scout just recently. I am more of a Sportbike guy, but if I were buying an Indian, it would be the Scout.

It's lighter, and handles better than the bigger air-cooled models. To me it represents what Indian might be making today, if they had continued in business uninterrupted all these years.

In fact I'd like to see them expand their line of bikes beyond Cruisers, to include ADV bikes and Sportbikes.
 
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Harley has rather decent build quality. They have had issues with the early twin cam engines but they are much better now. Fit and finish on the HDs always seemed good to me. The big twins are usually nicer than the sportys. Now take a Harley and put it next to a Royal Enfield or Ural and you will see what bad build quality is. I remember a guy tried to use a Ural on an Ironbutt Rally and went through MULTIPLE engines to complete it.

The radiator does seem a bit thick on the Scout compared to ones I have seen on engines like the Honda VTX and Fury for instance which seems better tucked in.
 
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Originally Posted By: 29662


Who cares if it's a new company with an old name. The design and build are far more important to me than heritage. Look at Harley's they have tons of heritage, but have antiquated designs and very poor build quality; not bashing, just saying.
I guess the saying "some people will buy into anything" is true. Answer this, what proof of Harley's poor build quality do you have?. And I don't mean 1 guy having trouble. And if Harley's design is so antiquated, why do all the bike mfgrs try to copy Harley's designs in an attempt to sell more bikes then Harley?.,,?
 
People like antiques...why do you see antique shops everywhere. Nostalgia is a powerful things, especially when you have a marketing department that really knows how to exploit it like Harley does. Indian is not guilty of doing anything Harley has not been doing since they got the company back from AMF
 
For the record I ride a honda vfr. If Harley has anything that can touch it I have yet to see one.

My on paper proof is that according to Consumer reports Harley has about double the reported problems of the next nearest japanese brand. As well as tons of first hand eyewitness accounts of Harley design and build problems. This despite that harley's are driven pretty gently compared to most other non-cruiser brands which get pretty well flogged. You also mentioned in a previous post that Harley was "king". My question is king of what? They are outsold worldwide by Honda by a 19:1 margin. Please explain that statement.

On a seperate issue I'm with 02SE, If Indian makes an ADV bike or sports bike I'm there..
 
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Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Only gripe I have with it is that the rear tire should have more meat on it to handle the engine's performance. I would have expected a 170 or 180 rear on something like that.

It is only a 100 hp engine with a chassis limited to a 31° lean angle, 560# bike. The main thing wrong with the tire is that it looks like it's a cheapo Kenda Kruz. A set of Michelin Commander II tires would be a big step up, but that $11k price would be in jeopardy.
 
Originally Posted By: 29662
They are outsold worldwide by Honda by a 19:1 margin. Please explain that statement.

Harley doesn't make outboard motors, lawn mowers, generators or cheap small displacement bikes that people tire of after short periods of ownership.Harley doesn't make a bike for every size displacement that can be conceived. They build large displacement heavyweight motorcycles that people have, and will pay a premium price to own.They have been doing this since 1903.Instead of flooding the market with throw away motorcycles, they build a product that can be rebuilt and used again and again. And people pay for that. And if you think Harley don't get used much, try going to any of the big bike rallys around the country. Hanging around the Honda dealer won't give you the real picture of the motorcycle world.,,
 
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: 29662
They are outsold worldwide by Honda by a 19:1 margin. Please explain that statement.

Harley doesn't make outboard motors, lawn mowers, generators or cheap small displacement bikes that people tire of after short periods of ownership.Harley doesn't make a bike for every size displacement that can be conceived. They build large displacement heavyweight motorcycles that people have, and will pay a premium price to own.They have been doing this since 1903.Instead of flooding the market with throw away motorcycles, they build a product that can be rebuilt and used again and again. And people pay for that. And if you think Harley don't get used much, try going to any of the big bike rallys around the country. Hanging around the Honda dealer won't give you the real picture of the motorcycle world.,,


That 19:1 ratio was just for motorcycles. I see you want touch the reliability issue. No surprise. If you don't want to buy an Indian that's fine, but why come in here and try to belittle and bemoan Indian for putting out a nice offering: insecurity perhaps. If you don't like it don't buy it, simple as that. But I'll bet that it's a better product than what harley puts out; which is reporting 1 major problem in every 4 bikes sold. I see you haven't or won't address their reliability concerns.

Go Indian, I wish the greatest success. and as I've said if they make either an adventure bike or a sports bike I'm there.
 
I've only had Italian and Japanese bikes, but I really like the Scout. My ONLY problem is weight. I wish there was a sub 400lbs model that was still air cooled.
 
The "radiator" and the section under the seat are both parts of the frame which is cast aluminum. The engine is a stressed member.

That said go ride this bike and you will quit comparing it to the MoCo. It doesn't ride like a Harley, it doesn't deliver power like a Harley. It sits a little like a Harley but that is about it. It reminds me more of a Ducati in most other respects. It is in my opinion a "metric competitor"and not a Harley competitor.

There is rather a long thread on ADV if you care to investigate it.
 
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Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
.....It reminds me more of a Ducati in most other respects.....
 
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