I have to say there is a lot of confusion on this subject. I just read and do what I think best for our old stuff.
454 TBI oil for tow truck use, need best economy
- Thread starter occupant
- Start date
- Status
Skip the HV oil pump. It'll pull your pan dry during hard running.
You are correct in your views on diesel vs. gas trucks. I maintain a fleet that has one gas truck, and its fuel bill is obviously always higher, but it always comes in way under the diesels for repairs and maintenance.
You are correct in your views on diesel vs. gas trucks. I maintain a fleet that has one gas truck, and its fuel bill is obviously always higher, but it always comes in way under the diesels for repairs and maintenance.
I know some people love the carbureted and port-injection versions of the 454, but I never had a very good relationship with it back when I spent summers hauling hay on overloaded pickups from all of the Big 3 in the 70s. Of the big-3 big-blocks of the 70s, it was probably the easiest to get huge power from the 454 because of the heads. But IMO it was the most fragile, particularly prone to bending pushrods and other valvetrain problems (I blamed the awkward "rat motor" valve geometry combined with the 454's exceptionally long pushrods). In the 80s, a friend of mine drove a 454-powered towtruck, and put speed-nuts on the valve covers and kept a toolbox bottom full of spare pushrods.
On the plus side- even at its worst the 454 was still cheap to service. As is true with any Chevy engine, parts cost and availability are better than Ford and Dodge. But with those farm trucks, I think it lost out on simple down-time. Mopar blooded though I am, the Fords were the all-around winners. The Dodge engines were probably as good or better, but the Dodge chassis of that era was... not.
If you really don't want to find an early 90s Ram/B5.9 diesel as others have recommended, then I'd look for a Ford 460 powered truck. Both the 454 and 460 remained in production into the fuel injection era, and of the two I've always had a better experience with the 460. The exception would be if you could find a Vortec 454 with multi-point injection. Never hear much bad about those at all, so I assume the later had changes to the valvetrain that addressed the issues it had.
On the plus side- even at its worst the 454 was still cheap to service. As is true with any Chevy engine, parts cost and availability are better than Ford and Dodge. But with those farm trucks, I think it lost out on simple down-time. Mopar blooded though I am, the Fords were the all-around winners. The Dodge engines were probably as good or better, but the Dodge chassis of that era was... not.
If you really don't want to find an early 90s Ram/B5.9 diesel as others have recommended, then I'd look for a Ford 460 powered truck. Both the 454 and 460 remained in production into the fuel injection era, and of the two I've always had a better experience with the 460. The exception would be if you could find a Vortec 454 with multi-point injection. Never hear much bad about those at all, so I assume the later had changes to the valvetrain that addressed the issues it had.
Last edited:
Good points 440Magnum. We have two big block engines. The 1992 454 TBI is an the motorhome with about 110K and is an awesome engine based on our cross country 8K mile trip in 2011 that took us to the Pacific Ocean and back with a lot of driving in the Rockies. The 1989 429 with a carb is in our Ford F700 16' flat dump showing 145K miles but who knows its real history. While the 454 shows more power 429 will grind all day going 5 MPH a lot of the time around the place hauling dirt/gravel where the rear axle stays in low range. Not sure why but all the old big trucks we have had were worn out Fords and the family was Chevy most of the time.
There were a lot of changes made when the 454 went from GenIV to GenV, particularly in the cylinder heads. The GenV/VI 454 carbs and TBIs are some of the best marine engines ever built, and don't think anything about moving a 12,000 lb. boat at 3-4000 rpm all day long.
You can't beat the factory dry "air gap" intake manifold, shaft-mount rockers, forward distributor, external oil pump, and cartridge water pump of the big Mopar engines, though. When something did need to be fixed or adjusted, it is easy.
I don't understand the TBI bashing, either. Here in South Florida, some of the lesser moving and delivery companies are still pushing, or just picking up TBI trucks, and continuing to run them at more than 250k miles. Not going to set any speed records, but they do get the job done.
You can't beat the factory dry "air gap" intake manifold, shaft-mount rockers, forward distributor, external oil pump, and cartridge water pump of the big Mopar engines, though. When something did need to be fixed or adjusted, it is easy.
I don't understand the TBI bashing, either. Here in South Florida, some of the lesser moving and delivery companies are still pushing, or just picking up TBI trucks, and continuing to run them at more than 250k miles. Not going to set any speed records, but they do get the job done.
Thank you to all for your contributions to this thread.
After running a 1992 7.3 IDI truck with a 5-speed, 1994 5-speed and 1999 6-speed Powerstrokes, 1997 and 2002 DT466/Allison IH trucks, and finally a 2006 IH with the DT466/Allison that bankrupted the company, I'm about ready to start over.
I took the advice of many here when suggesting trucks to the company owners, but they got completely murdered by the costs of maintaining a diesel. This time it's going to be my own company, and I'm going gas. The company owners have split and one of them now runs his own company and every one of his trucks has the V10 gas Ford engine, with no problems two years now other than his own stupidity breaking things on the beds.
Top of my list, still the 454/8100 Chevy big blocks, manual shift, in a 3500HD (years 1991 to 2002). I do not think a 350 engine would make sense in a rollback tow truck. I do not wish to incur the costs of the 6.5 turbodiesel or anything Ford/IH related except that smooth V10.
I am going to try and get a 1996+ model, which would be a Vortec 454 (through 2000) or the 8100 engine (2001-2002).
I think the consensus here was 5W30 for conventional and 5W40 for synthetic? I'm thinking that's ideal as well. 5W40 oil (in conventional Chevron Supreme form) is what I ran in most of my classic cars in the 1990s. You can't buy that anymore but you can get 5W40 in a synthetic or semi-synthetic.
Any recommendations on brands?
After running a 1992 7.3 IDI truck with a 5-speed, 1994 5-speed and 1999 6-speed Powerstrokes, 1997 and 2002 DT466/Allison IH trucks, and finally a 2006 IH with the DT466/Allison that bankrupted the company, I'm about ready to start over.
I took the advice of many here when suggesting trucks to the company owners, but they got completely murdered by the costs of maintaining a diesel. This time it's going to be my own company, and I'm going gas. The company owners have split and one of them now runs his own company and every one of his trucks has the V10 gas Ford engine, with no problems two years now other than his own stupidity breaking things on the beds.
Top of my list, still the 454/8100 Chevy big blocks, manual shift, in a 3500HD (years 1991 to 2002). I do not think a 350 engine would make sense in a rollback tow truck. I do not wish to incur the costs of the 6.5 turbodiesel or anything Ford/IH related except that smooth V10.
I am going to try and get a 1996+ model, which would be a Vortec 454 (through 2000) or the 8100 engine (2001-2002).
I think the consensus here was 5W30 for conventional and 5W40 for synthetic? I'm thinking that's ideal as well. 5W40 oil (in conventional Chevron Supreme form) is what I ran in most of my classic cars in the 1990s. You can't buy that anymore but you can get 5W40 in a synthetic or semi-synthetic.
Any recommendations on brands?
Rotella T6. Find it anywhere. Not expensive. 5W-40, and it's what I'd use in any big block (if I still owned one, sigh). It's great in my CTD Dodge.
Converted Dads 1987 454-TBI 3/4T Suburban to Mobil One 10W-50 in 1997 at 147k. Consumption dropped from what he'd been using. New double-roller and he was good to go to past 200k. Turbo 400 & 3.54 gears.
Converted Dads 1987 454-TBI 3/4T Suburban to Mobil One 10W-50 in 1997 at 147k. Consumption dropped from what he'd been using. New double-roller and he was good to go to past 200k. Turbo 400 & 3.54 gears.
Originally Posted by dnewton3
If normal OCIs are your plan, I would recommend a 10w-30 HDEO. Perhaps T5, as it is very easy to get and very cost effective if you run it long enough.
But ...
Given your description of averaging perhaps 7k miles a month, that approaches 85k miles a year. I would HIGHLY recommend considering a good synthetic lube and bypass filtration, and add a sample port such as the Fumoto valve or other ball valve on an oil port. That way you can sample your oil and have it analyzed, and maximize your O/FCIs. Anyone who drives that much is a candidate for such investments, because a well-mamanged plan can pay you back big time, but ONLY if you manage it properly. This is not a system that is cost effective if you try to guess your way into an OCI; it must be tracked and managed. The 454 does not have a large sump, so the cost of UOAs will play into the whole fiscal consideration as well as initial system costs and also additional maintenance costs. It's not an approach for the lazy or quick-to-wrench; it's a method of saving money by overall management of the entire maintenance plan. If you choose this, then either a true PAO 5w-30 or 10w-30 would do well, and HDEO would not really be a necessity.
+1 more. Really good oil and by-pass filter. Run longer filter on stock mount to add total volume of oil - I'd suggest Napa Gold.
Do a UOA at 5,000 miles and see what it looks like? Do it again at 10,000... I'd guess it will be stellar unless you have a leaky intake manifold, bad air cleaner or something ... As long as the oil test OK, leave it be. With that many miles there will be little cold idle time. You have an ECU and O2 sensors to keep the mixture in check. I'd run a 190* T stat. 2 1/2 dual exhaust with full sized crossover pipe. You will be running some RPM's, so it needs to breath.
OK, so BBC engines can stand some timing, like 48~52* total timing at 4,500 rpm if not at full throttle (what it will stand for total timing is vacuum dependent, the more vacuum - part throttle - the more timing it'll handle). Fuel mileage comes with the most timing that the engine can live with.
Your ECU may not let you get all the timing the engine can stand, so have to look into that... Does it have the dreaded ECU controlled HEI? The answer to that question will tell us where you go from there for mileage gains ...
If normal OCIs are your plan, I would recommend a 10w-30 HDEO. Perhaps T5, as it is very easy to get and very cost effective if you run it long enough.
But ...
Given your description of averaging perhaps 7k miles a month, that approaches 85k miles a year. I would HIGHLY recommend considering a good synthetic lube and bypass filtration, and add a sample port such as the Fumoto valve or other ball valve on an oil port. That way you can sample your oil and have it analyzed, and maximize your O/FCIs. Anyone who drives that much is a candidate for such investments, because a well-mamanged plan can pay you back big time, but ONLY if you manage it properly. This is not a system that is cost effective if you try to guess your way into an OCI; it must be tracked and managed. The 454 does not have a large sump, so the cost of UOAs will play into the whole fiscal consideration as well as initial system costs and also additional maintenance costs. It's not an approach for the lazy or quick-to-wrench; it's a method of saving money by overall management of the entire maintenance plan. If you choose this, then either a true PAO 5w-30 or 10w-30 would do well, and HDEO would not really be a necessity.
+1 more. Really good oil and by-pass filter. Run longer filter on stock mount to add total volume of oil - I'd suggest Napa Gold.
Do a UOA at 5,000 miles and see what it looks like? Do it again at 10,000... I'd guess it will be stellar unless you have a leaky intake manifold, bad air cleaner or something ... As long as the oil test OK, leave it be. With that many miles there will be little cold idle time. You have an ECU and O2 sensors to keep the mixture in check. I'd run a 190* T stat. 2 1/2 dual exhaust with full sized crossover pipe. You will be running some RPM's, so it needs to breath.
OK, so BBC engines can stand some timing, like 48~52* total timing at 4,500 rpm if not at full throttle (what it will stand for total timing is vacuum dependent, the more vacuum - part throttle - the more timing it'll handle). Fuel mileage comes with the most timing that the engine can live with.
Your ECU may not let you get all the timing the engine can stand, so have to look into that... Does it have the dreaded ECU controlled HEI? The answer to that question will tell us where you go from there for mileage gains ...
Last edited:
You won't get very good fuel economy from a 454 no matter what oil you use....
I would run Shell Rotella T6 5W-40.
I would run Shell Rotella T6 5W-40.
Exactly. I wouldn't even bother making that a goal.
So if a vehicle is capable of 15mpg (just a random guess for the sake of my point) and it's only getting 10mpg, there is no point in trying to get the best possible economy out of it just because "it's a 454"?
I don't get a lot of you people. I don't think you guys are getting it, or just haven't read most of the discussion in this thread, but the op doesn't want to deal with the diesel maintenance and repair costs.
As someone who daily drives a 1983 Caprice and an 84 Oldsmobile, I know all about paying a little more for fuel costs and almost nothing for maintenance and repairs, plus very little insurance and no car payments.
I don't get a lot of you people. I don't think you guys are getting it, or just haven't read most of the discussion in this thread, but the op doesn't want to deal with the diesel maintenance and repair costs.
As someone who daily drives a 1983 Caprice and an 84 Oldsmobile, I know all about paying a little more for fuel costs and almost nothing for maintenance and repairs, plus very little insurance and no car payments.
The point is that if a car is supposed to make 15mpg and only makes 10, it definitely isn't because of oil selection. Put two 454 engines next to each other and put 10w30 in one, and 15w40 in the other. Both engines will result in awful fuel economy. Cartoon coyote standing under a rock slide holding a tiny umbrella.
As for the rest of it, I'd avoid extended OCIs and stay away from bypass filters until verifying that this engine isn't a fuel dilution monster. Many TBI engines are.
As for the rest of it, I'd avoid extended OCIs and stay away from bypass filters until verifying that this engine isn't a fuel dilution monster. Many TBI engines are.
I agree that oil will make negligible difference in fuel economy but the op could be read 2 different ways. We can still give him opinions on most economical oil choice/OCI that will also help keep that engine running as long as possible.
Instead a lot of people just post "nope - don't even bother". Or "buy an expensive diesel that's also expensive to fix and probably can't be repaired by the op as he said he doesn't typically work on diesels.
I remember servicing a Canadian blood services GMC 1500 cargo van with a 4.8 and all wheel drive. They put 130k on it without any repairs at all, just oil changes before it got retired. They replaced it with a van with a duramax. The second oil change I had to call the fleet management company for authorization (because the diesel oil change costs more than double and is over their maintenance authorization limit). Assuming he's going to fight me over the price he actually informs me that the van is due for a fuel filter replacement (this was like 20k miles). IIRC it was like $250. Plus the oil change and the diesel exhaust fluid.
There's no way they saved money in the end when you factor in the price of the diesel option, then the maintenance.
Instead a lot of people just post "nope - don't even bother". Or "buy an expensive diesel that's also expensive to fix and probably can't be repaired by the op as he said he doesn't typically work on diesels.
I remember servicing a Canadian blood services GMC 1500 cargo van with a 4.8 and all wheel drive. They put 130k on it without any repairs at all, just oil changes before it got retired. They replaced it with a van with a duramax. The second oil change I had to call the fleet management company for authorization (because the diesel oil change costs more than double and is over their maintenance authorization limit). Assuming he's going to fight me over the price he actually informs me that the van is due for a fuel filter replacement (this was like 20k miles). IIRC it was like $250. Plus the oil change and the diesel exhaust fluid.
There's no way they saved money in the end when you factor in the price of the diesel option, then the maintenance.
I did comment about fuel economy, and how to achieve it. 454's like timing. But how you get there can be a challenge.
There are plenty of BBC's getting 15 to 17 MPG and it is a worthwhile goal. All businesses need to control costs. Fuel is a big cost. But so are oil changes twice a month, and likely unnecessary ...
For high mileage vehicles in daily service, by-pass filtration can be a worthwhile thing. Gotta do a spreadsheet on downtime and extra effort to be doing that many services plus working the truck. Maybe be cheaper and easier to extend service interval with the same results. But only UOA's and monitoring will tell you that.
There are plenty of BBC's getting 15 to 17 MPG and it is a worthwhile goal. All businesses need to control costs. Fuel is a big cost. But so are oil changes twice a month, and likely unnecessary ...
For high mileage vehicles in daily service, by-pass filtration can be a worthwhile thing. Gotta do a spreadsheet on downtime and extra effort to be doing that many services plus working the truck. Maybe be cheaper and easier to extend service interval with the same results. But only UOA's and monitoring will tell you that.
In my Fleetwood Southwind Storm 28ft (P30 chassis) 454 TBI w/4L80E trans the engine calls for 10w-30. I use only Valvoline Racing 10w-30 conventional
As for mileage....
It will consistently average between 8-10 mpg (no towing) at 58-60mph (sweet spot). I'm at 58.306 miles now. I've replace just about every electronic item on the engine (preventative maint). Just finished pulling the distributor and replacing the pick up coil and ICM given they were original (25yrs old). These 454 TBI engines are very reliable. It will use on average 2/3 qt every 1200-1500 miles. Normal for BBC.
Here's the pick up coil I pulled....https://www.dropbox.com/s/7v3r2hi4q0ckdef/20190515_220427%5B1%5D.jpg?dl=0
That will strand you if on the road and it decides to give up the ghost. Highly recommended to replace it. it requires pulling the distributor for replacement whereas the ICM does not.
One of the most likely symptoms of the pick up coil failing.....
Engine will instantly shut off without warning when coming to a stop (think light switch). Putting in park or neutral and engine will start again without issue.
As for mileage....
It will consistently average between 8-10 mpg (no towing) at 58-60mph (sweet spot). I'm at 58.306 miles now. I've replace just about every electronic item on the engine (preventative maint). Just finished pulling the distributor and replacing the pick up coil and ICM given they were original (25yrs old). These 454 TBI engines are very reliable. It will use on average 2/3 qt every 1200-1500 miles. Normal for BBC.
Here's the pick up coil I pulled....https://www.dropbox.com/s/7v3r2hi4q0ckdef/20190515_220427%5B1%5D.jpg?dl=0
That will strand you if on the road and it decides to give up the ghost. Highly recommended to replace it. it requires pulling the distributor for replacement whereas the ICM does not.
One of the most likely symptoms of the pick up coil failing.....
Engine will instantly shut off without warning when coming to a stop (think light switch). Putting in park or neutral and engine will start again without issue.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
As for the rest of it, I'd avoid extended OCIs and stay away from bypass filters until verifying that this engine isn't a fuel dilution monster. Many TBI engines are.
Ya. Think of the life a wrecker lives. Lots of time idling to keep the AC/Heat running between calls. Lots of time idling while on site running the PTO and cleaning up the road. Lots of time idling when filling out the paperwork.
And will this truck being doing city work or long runs on the highway? The OD swap may not even payoff over the life of the truck if its just hopping from mile marker to mile marker or block to block.
As for the rest of it, I'd avoid extended OCIs and stay away from bypass filters until verifying that this engine isn't a fuel dilution monster. Many TBI engines are.
Ya. Think of the life a wrecker lives. Lots of time idling to keep the AC/Heat running between calls. Lots of time idling while on site running the PTO and cleaning up the road. Lots of time idling when filling out the paperwork.
And will this truck being doing city work or long runs on the highway? The OD swap may not even payoff over the life of the truck if its just hopping from mile marker to mile marker or block to block.
- Status
