Does the anti drain back valve matter?

[Sayjac]

The adbv does more than just hold oil in the filter, it also holds oil in the oil galleries leading to the filter also helping prevent or reduce a dry start condition. So even filters with a thread end up orientation can require an adbv.

And as some GM applications with thread end application show, having an adbv will never cause any harm even where not spec'd. The reverse is not true. This is why some aftermarket manufacturers and even AC Delco it appears, just use an adbv to cover all applications whether originally spec'd for an adbv or not. A more recent thread/post linked below explains such an example.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb..._mi#Post3141456

 

[CapitalTruck]

The valve can't both prevent oil from leaving the filter and keep it from draining from the galleries back into the filter.

 

[Sayjac]

Actually it can and does. It's similar to a vacuum effect when the adbv closes on engine shut down. It prevents oil from moving back through the galleries to the sump. An example of this can be seen with a used oil filter and adbv functioning as designed. The oil will hold in the filter even in a base down position for quite some time. ZO6 has a thread showing this to be true. However puncture a small hole in the dome of the filter and the oil run out of the filter without having touched the adbv. The vacuum effect is broken when the can is punctured allowing the oil to flow out of the inlet holes.

And the are very few applications that don't spec an adbv including vertical thread end up application. My 3.0L Accord is one such example, thread end up and specs/uses an adbv and the filter is accessed from the bottom side of the engine.

 

[boxcartommie22]

anti drain back valve not needed most all of them leak anyways. that goes along with the cheap paper filters.that tear, let in lg particles and cost pennies at the auto stores. my opinion

 

[RF Overlord]

Originally Posted By: CapitalTruck
The anti-drainback valve can't work when an oil filter is mounted thread side up. If it did, it would be working against the direction of normal oil flow into the filter. That would be a bit of a problem when the engine was in operation.
What?
Originally Posted By: CapitalTruck
The valve can't both prevent oil from leaving the filter and keep it from draining from the galleries back into the filter.
Of course it can...that's its entire JOB.

Where are you getting this stuff?

 

[dlundblad]

As said, even though it is vertical, the filter still holds a lot of oil inside the engine. The proof is when you remove it and all the oil gushes out. The more the better IMO.

My mom's elantra's oil pan hangs down slightly below the vertical hanging filter as well. Oil "could" drain from the engine into the pan if it wasn't for the ADBV.

 

[CapitalTruck]

Ok, here is what I am seeing. ADBV allows oil to enter oil filter through the holes surrounding the center tube. Oil, under pressure from the oil pump, pushes the valve up to enter the filter. When the engine is turned off the valve closes, whereby blocking the inlet holes and preventing oil from being drained out due to gravity. However, if an oil filter is mounted in a completely vertical position, with the threaded side up, there is no pressure on the oil inside the filter for the oil to return to the engine. Gravity is in fact keeping the oil in the filter. Thus, if the filter is mounted threaded side up there is no reason to have an ADBV.

This is my take on it. Please tell me if I'm wrong, even more importantly, in what regard.

The oil that gushes out of a bottom of the engine, vertically mounted (threaded side up) filter mount when you change the filter has nothing to do with the anti-drainback valve. It is there as a result of the oil filter being full of oil (due to gravity) and keeping oil in suspension above the filter (as a result of the filter not being able to hold any more oil). The ADBV would allow this oil into the filter if the filter wasn't already full (as it would be following the normal path of oil. INTO the filter).

Please tell me how I'm wrong.

 

[Izb]

What about ADBV on Subaru FA/FB engines, where filter is on the top of engine?
I guess, that HOT OIL flocked completely down (after engine is stopped) through the inlet and outlet WIDE channels, especially considering the permeability of the paper to the oil and air.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: CapitalTruck
Ok, here is what I am seeing. ADBV allows oil to enter oil filter through the holes surrounding the center tube. Oil, under pressure from the oil pump, pushes the valve up to enter the filter. When the engine is turned off the valve closes, whereby blocking the inlet holes and preventing oil from being drained out due to gravity. However, if an oil filter is mounted in a completely vertical position, with the threaded side up, there is no pressure on the oil inside the filter for the oil to return to the engine. Gravity is in fact keeping the oil in the filter. Thus, if the filter is mounted threaded side up there is no reason to have an ADBV.

This is my take on it. Please tell me if I'm wrong, even more importantly, in what regard.

The oil that gushes out of a bottom of the engine, vertically mounted (threaded side up) filter mount when you change the filter has nothing to do with the anti-drainback valve. It is there as a result of the oil filter being full of oil (due to gravity) and keeping oil in suspension above the filter (as a result of the filter not being able to hold any more oil). The ADBV would allow this oil into the filter if the filter wasn't already full (as it would be following the normal path of oil. INTO the filter).

Please tell me how I'm wrong.


With a filter mounted vertical with base up, the ADBV can still prevent the oil in the galleries located above the filter from draining back down to the level of the oil filter. A vertical filter may stay full of oil without an ADBV, but the galleries above the filter may not.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Izb
What about ADBV on Subaru FA/FB engines, where filter is on the top of engine?
I guess, that HOT OIL flocked completely down (after engine is stopped) through the inlet and outlet WIDE channels, especially considering the permeability of the paper to the oil and air.


See my link in the post I made towards the beginning of this thread. Oil may leak out of the center tube (through the bearings, etc) over a long period of time, but if the ADBV is working right the oil between the media element and can should stay in the filter forever.

 

[bchannell]

Originally Posted By: CapitalTruck
The anti-drainback valve can't work when an oil filter is mounted thread side up. If it did, it would be working against the direction of normal oil flow into the filter. That would be a bit of a problem when the engine was in operation.


CT nailed this one, adbv is a one way check valve. Filters mounted thread up, it does nothing. Adbv depend on gravity to push oil from inside the filter against the back of the filter to prevent emptying of the filter. Oil flow INTO the filter, during normal operation, goes right through the Adbv.

 

[Shannow]

No he didn't.

Oil flow through the ADBV and into the engine follows the same path through the ADBV, and filter media regardless of orientation. The ADBV is trying to hold a column of oil above it on the engine side of the filter, regardless of orientation.

With a top threaded filter, the filter will stay full(ish) with or without an ADBV...but the quoted "gush" of oil when you remove the filter indicates precisely that the ADBV is holding a column of oil above it.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
In short, yes, it still matters.

Without one, the head pressure in oil galleries above would "backflow" through the filter and you'd lose that oil pressure prime when you next start the engine. Even with a vertically-mounted filter, a good ADBV is important.

When you change the oil, you should notice that a good bit of "extra" oil drains out when you remove the filter. This is evidence that your ADBV is working as intended, and is keeping those oil galleries above the filter primed with oil.

Isn't the ADBV in the Honda Honeywell filters made of silicone? Honda must think enough of that feature to specify one to begin with, and specify one out of a premium material.


No, it doesn't matter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: tig1
No, it doesn't matter.


How so?

 

[53' Stude]

It does matter. MC fanboys have their opinions. Rest of BITOG has their un educated and educated opinions

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: tig1
No, it doesn't matter.


How so?


Because some filter makers do not use a ADBV in filters designed for engines where the filter base plate is pointed straight up. Foe example, my Fusion has a cartridge filter and it is vertical to the engine. There is no ADBV is this system. Now my Focus has a verticle filter as well, and I use the FL 910 MC filter and it has a ADBV in it, but this filter is designed for other engines besides the Focus.

 

[dlundblad]

Hyundai OEM filters have ADBV's and are vertical. I'd say it matters to them..

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Hyundai OEM filters have ADBV's and are vertical. I'd say it matters to them..


And that same filter is no doubt used on engines where the filter is mounted in different positions.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Hyundai OEM filters have ADBV's and are vertical. I'd say it matters to them..


And that same filter is no doubt used on engines where the filter is mounted in different positions.


It may very well be.

The truth is you have no idea if an ADBV is not need just because the filter is mounted vertical. What if the filter is hooked up to some plumbing that keeps galleys filled with oil? You don't want all that oil draining back into the sump.

Also, I wonder what could have caused the Hyundai oil filter TSB if an ADBV isn't needed on a vertical filter? (The affected vehicles have vertical filters by the way.)

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: tig1
No, it doesn't matter.


How so?


Because some filter makers do not use a ADBV in filters designed for engines where the filter base plate is pointed straight up. Foe example, my Fusion has a cartridge filter and it is vertical to the engine. There is no ADBV is this system. Now my Focus has a verticle filter as well, and I use the FL 910 MC filter and it has a ADBV in it, but this filter is designed for other engines besides the Focus.


GM V8s have a base up vertical mounted oil filter, and they all require a filter with an ADBV. In most cases you still need an ADBV on a base up mounted filter for the reasons stated in this thread.