The Big Test: Midsize Sedans

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Originally Posted By: chrisri
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Buying an Accord or a Camry is easy. Most people don't even want to think about it... so they don't, and just head to the Toyota dealer.


I don't think that Camry and Accord should be in the same sentence.
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I think that the US-market Accord is sold only here and Canada...the Acura TL (?) Is the rest of the world's Accord.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Buying an Accord or a Camry is easy. Most people don't even want to think about it... so they don't, and just head to the Toyota dealer.


I don't think that Camry and Accord should be in the same sentence.
whistle.gif



I think that the US-market Accord is sold only here and Canada...the Acura TL (?) Is the rest of the world's Accord.

That was true for the first generation of TL, but I'm not sure that it is, anymore.
 
I believe that the American version Accord is specific to the U.S. for it's larger size and what American's are specifying. Although, I can't answer for the new Accord/TSX
 
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
I believe that the American version Accord is specific to the U.S. for it's larger size and what American's are specifying. Although, I can't answer for the new Accord/TSX


This was correct in the past, but is not the case for the 9th generation Accord (MY 2013+). The 2013+ Accord for sale in the United States is the same car sold in the rest of the world. The project manager for the 2013 Accord, according to Wikipedia, is the same one that worked on the Accord platform from 1985 through 1996. This generation steps "backward" in a sense in that it gets closer to the pillar upon which Honda made its name: cars that drive good.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
I believe that the American version Accord is specific to the U.S. for it's larger size and what American's are specifying. Although, I can't answer for the new Accord/TSX


This was correct in the past, but is not the case for the 9th generation Accord (MY 2013+). The 2013+ Accord for sale in the United States is the same car sold in the rest of the world. The project manager for the 2013 Accord, according to Wikipedia, is the same one that worked on the Accord platform from 1985 through 1996. This generation steps "backward" in a sense in that it gets closer to the pillar upon which Honda made its name: cars that drive good.


Interesting, thanks for the update!
I like cars that drive good! And this is done without the double wishbone suspension, I understand!
 
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Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: dareo


The Skyactiv Mazdas are really cool for a lot of reasons; but nobody is buying them. Probably due to the price. Mazda would only go $1000 off a 6 when we looked, and $2500-$3000 off an Accord is fairly routine.


LOL. I think you misunderstood your economics classes. Mazda won't go down as much because they are having no problems selling them. They know they can get someone to pay more than you were willing to pay.


Mazda sells a reasonable volume of cars. But they are absolutely smashed by Toyota, Honda, Hyundai/Kia, Nissan, GM, Ford, VW, pretty much every big car maker in terms of volume. If you can sell 200-400k units per year you can come off sticker thousands more than Mazda and still have good profit. Mazda imports from Japan in low volume and simply cannot afford to be near the same final price point as the super high volume cars. Most midsize sedan buyers are all about that bottom line. More than 2 million midsize cars that are not a Mazda 6 sold in 2013, and 43,638 Mazda 6 were sold. That is great if you want a more exclusive sedan, but not good for cost per unit vs everyone else.

Ford has no problems selling F150s, 763,402 units in 2013, and they discount very heavily off MSRP. They dominate the market share and want it to stay that way.
 
Originally Posted By: dareo
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: dareo


The Skyactiv Mazdas are really cool for a lot of reasons; but nobody is buying them. Probably due to the price. Mazda would only go $1000 off a 6 when we looked, and $2500-$3000 off an Accord is fairly routine.


LOL. I think you misunderstood your economics classes. Mazda won't go down as much because they are having no problems selling them. They know they can get someone to pay more than you were willing to pay.


Mazda sells a reasonable volume of cars. But they are absolutely smashed by Toyota, Honda, Hyundai/Kia, Nissan, GM, Ford, VW, pretty much every big car maker in terms of volume. If you can sell 200-400k units per year you can come off sticker thousands more than Mazda and still have good profit. Mazda imports from Japan in low volume and simply cannot afford to be near the same final price point as the super high volume cars. Most midsize sedan buyers are all about that bottom line. More than 2 million midsize cars that are not a Mazda 6 sold in 2013, and 43,638 Mazda 6 were sold. That is great if you want a more exclusive sedan, but not good for cost per unit vs everyone else.

Ford has no problems selling F150s, 763,402 units in 2013, and they discount very heavily off MSRP. They dominate the market share and want it to stay that way.


I guess you are unfamiliar with Mazda's production capacity or target sales volumes. They don't need to sell as much as anyone else to be successful. They just need to sell what they make at the prices they want. Honda and others have to be more willing to negotiate right now to meet the sales numbers they are shooting for.
 
I put on about 32,000 miles a year. I purchased a 2014 Mazda 6 at the end of May. So far I have been very pleased. The car rides nice. It is quiet and the fuel mileage has been nothing but outstanding. Averaging 40+ MPG all Highway @60 mph.
I have received many complements on how nice it looks.
Just spent a day last week covering the whole front end with 3M vinyl protectant.
 
Originally Posted By: dareo
Mazda sells a reasonable volume of cars. But they are absolutely smashed by Toyota, Honda, Hyundai/Kia, Nissan, GM, Ford, VW, pretty much every big car maker in terms of volume. If you can sell 200-400k units per year you can come off sticker thousands more than Mazda and still have good profit. Mazda imports from Japan in low volume and simply cannot afford to be near the same final price point as the super high volume cars. Most midsize sedan buyers are all about that bottom line. More than 2 million midsize cars that are not a Mazda 6 sold in 2013, and 43,638 Mazda 6 were sold. That is great if you want a more exclusive sedan, but not good for cost per unit vs everyone else.

Ford has no problems selling F150s, 763,402 units in 2013, and they discount very heavily off MSRP. They dominate the market share and want it to stay that way.


Selling in high volume is great if you want to be a huge manufacturer of things that people buy. Some companies only want to be more and more huge, like Toyota, GM, Ford, and VW.

Mazda is one of those companies that don't need to be huge, yet still turn a tidy profit.
They make a group of vehicles that not everyone wants, and those that do are willing to spend a bit more on.

You know, like BMW, Porsche, Maserati, Ferrari, Bentley, etc.

Granted that Mazda currently does not pull in the profit margins of the above brands, but in comparison to Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Chevy, and Ford, I believe that on a per vehicle basis, Mazda averages more profit per vehicle sold than the competing product at these other manufacturers.

They are making their products have less defects per vehicle at initial release, and are resolving the issues that do arise quickly, and applying the solutions to the assembly line, quickly. Can't do the same at Huge Automakers, without throwing a wrench into the whole works.

People who only care about the bottom dollar buy cars that are not Mazda's.
People who care about driving dynamics, are much more likely to buy a Mazda.

BC.
 
Mazda had consistent losses until FY2013, and now forcasts a second profitable year. They do not turn a big profit, but have turned their company around very nicely with the Skyactiv products. Their 2014 is looking pretty good thus far.

Their incentive spending is significantly below average all around. So each buyer has to really like that car to make that price jump. Its a tough cycle to get out of. Low volume->low profit->low incentives->low volume.

I really do like their cars and the Mazda 6 was a very close 2nd choice to our Accord. I hope they can grow their business. A mazda FRS/BRZ type car (not rotary please) would be really cool.
 
Originally Posted By: dareo
mazda FRS/BRZ type car


FRS/BRZ at press release immediately struck me as a cross between an RX8 and a Miata with a boxer engine.
 
Originally Posted By: 97tbird
2014 and future Mazdas are all made in Japan


That's probably why Mazda is such a high quality car now. I think Nissan and Toyota were MUCH better when they were 100% Japanese built.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
I don't want Mazda to become Honda or Toyota. They are unique.


I agree. Mazda has always been a unique brand.
 
^+1. Exactly the reason we wanted one in our stable:
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/news/mazda-carving-its-own-niche/article4604138/

Quote:
“We’re recognized as a Japanese brand that’s different than other Japanese brands,” says Koreeda, noting that Toyota, Honda and Nissan compete for customers across the board – many of whom want nothing more than a transportation appliance, a commuting machine that is means to go from A to B. Mazda wants buyers who bring some enthusiasm, even passion to their time behind the wheel. The long-term goal is to move Mazda slightly upmarket, but not as far into premium territory as BMW. At least not yet. That would be zooming away from the company’s base.

The essence of it all is the kind of “precise, responsive driving” described by chassis engineer Yoshitada Toyoshima as he digs deeply into his goals for the new 6. Through a translator, he talks about engineering to create “one-ness with the vehicle, unity.”



http://www.autoblog.com/2012/10/05/2014-mazda6-first-drive-review/

Quote:
Kajiyama (program manager for Mazda6) said his team benchmarked the BMW 3 Series, Audi A4 and Volkswagen Passat.
He said they also studied the Camry, Altima and Fusion, but that he wouldn't let his engineers drive them to and from work. Why not? "I told them 'Your senses get dull".
It worked. The Mazda6 definitely isn't.

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LOL!! Nice.

As much as I want a new WRX, the 6 is so tempting. Great overall value. I'm looking for something with a bit more power. I would get the 6spd manual.
 
I'm hoping Mazda will put the 6 back in the performance sedan game with a turbo. I'm a little surprised they're allowing that beautiful new sedan to be outgunned by all its major competitors. It needs some more horses to back up its good looks.
 
Originally Posted By: FocusTi
I'm hoping Mazda will put the 6 back in the performance sedan game with a turbo. I'm a little surprised they're allowing that beautiful new sedan to be outgunned by all its major competitors. It needs some more horses to back up its good looks.


True, but it makes up for it in other areas which is why the editors keep picking it over the others.
 
That was a pretty interesting read. I have to say the only two Japanese brands that even remotely interest me are Subaru and Mazda. I just find it unfortunately that Subaru recently made the switch to CVT transmissions, which I don't like, but it's refreshing to see Mazda has a standard auto and manual option.
 
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
That was a pretty interesting read. I have to say the only two Japanese brands that even remotely interest me are Subaru and Mazda. I just find it unfortunately that Subaru recently made the switch to CVT transmissions, which I don't like, but it's refreshing to see Mazda has a standard auto and manual option.


The Subaru CVT is surprising a lot of people, espeically in the WRX and Forester XT. With the right programming, it's exceptional.

We now have 3k on the Mazda 3 and the AT is very impressive in this car. In sport mode it's awesome, and the paddle shifters work very well in manual mode. Not for everyone, but they are growing on me.

The AT in the 3 and WRX CVT are actually the better choices. Manual only people will obviously still opt for the manual. It is nice to see Subaru and Mazda still offering manuals.
 
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