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#3460905 - 08/21/14 01:27 AM DI intake valves CAN be cleaned with PEA?
Alext Offline


Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 24
Loc: SA
According to this article "A vehicle that had run for 20,100 km in Example 4 was reassembled with deposits intact. The vehicle run for an additional 1,100 km using the same fuel described in Example 4 but with the addition of the polyetheramine (PEA) from Example 5 at an order of magnitude increased treatment level; that is, an aftermarket treatment level. The concentration of PEA in the treated fuel was 21 ppm by weight of nitrogen and was 3200 ppm by weight on an actives basis. It was also found that intake valve deposits, which are not directly impacted by additive in DISE engines under normal dosages/operating modes, were reduced by 23% by this treatment."

Found it here: http://www.google.com/patents/WO2003078553A2?cl=en

They mention that usually in DI engines valve deposits are not affected by fuel additives but in their test they showed that at higher concentrations it can reduce the deposits. I wonder what concentration of something like Redline SI-1 that translates to?

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#3460913 - 08/21/14 01:58 AM Re: DI intake valves CAN be cleaned with PEA? [Re: Alext]
OneEyeJack Offline


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 1123
Loc: California
There are some diesel engines here with DI that are in generator service with instructions to use a PEA additive in the fuel. They function as back up power and generally run about 20 hours a month. A service bulletin a few years ago advised doubling the original dose because of valve deposits.

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#3460915 - 08/21/14 02:22 AM Re: DI intake valves CAN be cleaned with PEA? [Re: Alext]
wemay Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 1919
Loc: sunny/rainy Mia, FL.
Maybe why Hyundai recommends Thechron (in Hyundai packaging) every service visit or 5k miles and top tier fuel.
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14 Hyundai Sonata GLS 2.4 - EDGE EP FST 5w20 - OEM
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#3460923 - 08/21/14 03:13 AM Re: DI intake valves CAN be cleaned with PEA? [Re: Alext]
wemay Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 1919
Loc: sunny/rainy Mia, FL.
http://crcindustries.com/auto/intake-valve-cleaner.php

Another product specifically marketed towards GDi applications.
_________________________
14 Hyundai Sonata GLS 2.4 - EDGE EP FST 5w20 - OEM
13 Hyundai Santa Fe S 2.0T - Kendall GT-1 5w40 - TF2808

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#3460976 - 08/21/14 06:39 AM Re: DI intake valves CAN be cleaned with PEA? [Re: Alext]
sicko Offline


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 919
Loc: Virginia
Interesting results. I don't have time to read the full article right now, but I'll check it out later.

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#3461010 - 08/21/14 07:31 AM Re: DI intake valves CAN be cleaned with PEA? [Re: wemay]
knerml Offline


Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 119
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: wemay
Maybe why Hyundai recommends Thechron (in Hyundai packaging) every service visit or 5k miles and top tier fuel.


Hyundia/Kia is pushing Techron for all of their cars, not just ones with DI.

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#3461041 - 08/21/14 08:08 AM Re: DI intake valves CAN be cleaned with PEA? [Re: Alext]
badtlc Offline


Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 3688
Loc: KC
I have been overdoing it by using Gumout AIO in one tank (12 gallons) when it is recommended for up to 35 gallons. I'm thinking that might not be so bad of an idea now. I got a bit worried when the Gumout Q&A said 18gal minimum for the AIO product.
_________________________
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#3461085 - 08/21/14 09:17 AM Re: DI intake valves CAN be cleaned with PEA? [Re: Alext]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21071
Loc: NY
How does the product get to the back of the intake valves to clean them?
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#3461118 - 08/21/14 09:46 AM Re: DI intake valves CAN be cleaned with PEA? [Re: demarpaint]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7459
Loc: Akron,Ohio
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
How does the product get to the back of the intake valves to clean them?


Valve timing. IIRC ford does this.

Others like audi Did not at least on first gen DI and they had massive issues with it.


Edited by Rand (08/21/14 09:47 AM)
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#3461123 - 08/21/14 09:50 AM Re: DI intake valves CAN be cleaned with PEA? [Re: Rand]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21071
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
How does the product get to the back of the intake valves to clean them?


Valve timing. IIRC ford does this.

Others like audi Did not at least on first gen DI and they had massive issues with it.


Thanks. So if you have an early generation DI engine it isn't going to work?
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#3461131 - 08/21/14 09:56 AM Re: DI intake valves CAN be cleaned with PEA? [Re: Rand]
crw Offline


Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 1618
Loc: Pocatello, ID
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
How does the product get to the back of the intake valves to clean them?


Valve timing. IIRC ford does this.

Others like audi Did not at least on first gen DI and they had massive issues with it.

Huh? OK, are we saying that the fuel and cleaner mixture gets pushed out of the cylinder into the valve chamber in sufficient quantity to clean the valves?
_________________________
2004 Mini Cooper -- 1975 BMW 2002 -- a bunch of others...

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#3461135 - 08/21/14 10:03 AM Re: DI intake valves CAN be cleaned with PEA? [Re: Alext]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8093
Loc: NorthEast
A question to resident GDI experts; since the fuel is injected on the intake stroke, why does the fuel needs to be at 2000 psi? Isn't there is a negative pressure (aka vacuum) in the cylinder during the intake stroke?

Another question:- CRC generally don't make snake oil type products but is it really possible to melt the carbon deposit on the back of the valve by spraying a strong solution? Why doesn't they conduct an experiment to show cleaning off the carbon-ed up valve on camera?

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#3461139 - 08/21/14 10:06 AM Re: DI intake valves CAN be cleaned with PEA? [Re: Alext]
MCompact Offline


Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 1678
Loc: KY
I run a 20 oz. bottle of Techron through my Mazda every 3k miles and only use Top Tier fuel. So far it appears to have kept me from needing to clean/replace the EGR valve for a second time...
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#3461147 - 08/21/14 10:13 AM Re: DI intake valves CAN be cleaned with PEA? [Re: crw]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21071
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: crw
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
How does the product get to the back of the intake valves to clean them?


Valve timing. IIRC ford does this.

Others like audi Did not at least on first gen DI and they had massive issues with it.

Huh? OK, are we saying that the fuel and cleaner mixture gets pushed out of the cylinder into the valve chamber in sufficient quantity to clean the valves?


That's why I asked. From what I've gathered here and from talking with experts there aren't any in tank cleaners that will work, unless something has changed with the rolling out of the 2015's that I'm not aware of.
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#3461162 - 08/21/14 10:35 AM Re: DI intake valves CAN be cleaned with PEA? [Re: Alext]
crw Offline


Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 1618
Loc: Pocatello, ID
It's amazing how many people still don't understand the issue of direct injection vs. legacy fuel injection and the cleaning of valves.
_________________________
2004 Mini Cooper -- 1975 BMW 2002 -- a bunch of others...

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