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#3459265 - 08/19/14 07:10 AM Re: Consumer Reports Premier A/S vs Primacy MXV4 Test [Re: Volvohead]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 9218
Loc: PA
Regarding the sacrifice of dry grip for wet grip:

In my experience, the ability to stop and turn on wet roads is FAR more important than the ability to do the same on dry roads. Everything is worse in the wet -- not just all-out grip, but also the predictability and smoothness of breakaway.

Plus, there is a flip side to what Volvohead pointed out about the dominance of dry driving conditions: people have less experience, less skill, and worse sensibilities when driving in wet conditions. They often drive closer to their limits and their cars' limits. Any extra margin in the wet will be a good one.

It's far from ideal to sacrifice dry grip for wet grip, but that sacrifice is still far better than the opposite.
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2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
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#3459553 - 08/19/14 01:53 PM Re: Consumer Reports Premier A/S vs Primacy MXV4 Test [Re: The Critic]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15151
Loc: Sunny Florida
^^^Stunningly accurate, and true on all counts.

Why anyone would NOT want good wet grip is beyond me, but I don't live in Arizona either...
_________________________
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J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
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#3459694 - 08/19/14 05:40 PM Re: Consumer Reports Premier A/S vs Primacy MXV4 Test [Re: SteveSRT8]
Volvohead Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 3550
Loc: SE Pa
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
^^^Stunningly accurate, and true on all counts.

Why anyone would NOT want good wet grip is beyond me, but I don't live in Arizona either...


Everyone wants good wet grip and stopping performance.

Which is why my wife's latest set of tires are Conti PureContact Ecoplus, which excel in that area, and are very strong performers everywhere else. And much cheaper than the new Premier.

I think we can all agree that the Premier is an excellent tire new, and with 3.5/32 shaved off. No doubt it is not perfect, and some compromises were made, as with every tire. Imagine how much better it would be with a full 11/32 to live on.

But until someone presents a report on the mileage in the field it takes to wear down 3.5/32 off the Premier, the ultimate value of this tire remains uncertain. Shaving never answers that. Until then, others can pay the very stiff price of this tire and report back to us.

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#3460017 - 08/20/14 05:14 AM Re: Consumer Reports Premier A/S vs Primacy MXV4 Test [Re: Volvohead]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15151
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: Volvohead

But until someone presents a report on the mileage in the field it takes to wear down 3.5/32 off the Premier, the ultimate value of this tire remains uncertain. Shaving never answers that. Until then, others can pay the very stiff price of this tire and report back to us.


I am never an early adopter. The market will quickly determine the value here. But anyone who imagines Michelin to be lacking in technology is probably mistaken.

My PSS's came with a 30k mile warranty. I have never had any tire last over 19k miles on my car. Either they lose a whole lot of money or they know what they are doing....
_________________________
"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix

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#3460038 - 08/20/14 06:43 AM Re: Consumer Reports Premier A/S vs Primacy MXV4 Test [Re: Volvohead]
Hokiefyd Offline


Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 11449
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Imagine how much better it would be with a full 11/32 to live on.


I'm sure it's not that simple. If Michelin could add 30% more tread depth and sell it with an 830 treadwear rating and a 78,000 mile warranty, with no significant trade-offs, then I'm sure they'd have done it.
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#3460118 - 08/20/14 09:13 AM Re: Consumer Reports Premier A/S vs Primacy MXV4 Test [Re: The Critic]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8246
Loc: NorthEast
Good handling and better rain traction? You want soft compound? High mileage rating? You want a compound which does not wear aka hard compound. It is always going to be a compromise.

From my limited personal experience, I had best experience with Dunlop and Michelin. Almost every other brand that I have tried, I was disappointed in terms of how soon the tires used to get out of balance and started thumping. The ElCheapo ones barely lasted 1/3 of their tread life. I essentially wasted my money on them.

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#3460244 - 08/20/14 11:44 AM Re: Consumer Reports Premier A/S vs Primacy MXV4 Test [Re: Vikas]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 9218
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Vikas
From my limited personal experience, I had best experience with Dunlop and Michelin. Almost every other brand that I have tried, I was disappointed in terms of how soon the tires used to get out of balance and started thumping. The ElCheapo ones barely lasted 1/3 of their tread life. I essentially wasted my money on them.

Ditto.

The Pilot Super Sports in the rear of my last car took 25k miles to get near the wear bars, and their worst problem was a slight amount more road noise. They didn't even hydroplane in standing water on the highway. A friend of mine has run them until bald, and had the same experience. Zero meaningful hydroplaning even with zero tread. There are plenty of tires that would take more mileage to get that low, but I'm not aware of one that wouldn't start getting iffy in the wet with more than 25k miles on it -- except maybe the Pilot Sport A/S 3, which is another Michelin...

Also been having a similar experience with balance retention. In my experience, the cheaper the tire, the more often it needed re-balancing.
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2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
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#3460443 - 08/20/14 03:23 PM Re: Consumer Reports Premier A/S vs Primacy MXV4 Test [Re: d00df00d]
Volvohead Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 3550
Loc: SE Pa
No doubt about it, Vikas, as regards Michelins.

Generally speaking, from my experience Michelins are the easiest to balance and present fewer problems as they wear than many others. Some do have an early surface cracking issue. And they are never cheap tires.

I have the LTX M/S 2 on our truck and they are fantastic and wear like cast iron. Loved the MXV4s and most of the PS line as well. They are always my first choice unless there is a reason not to go with them.

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#3460449 - 08/20/14 03:29 PM Re: Consumer Reports Premier A/S vs Primacy MXV4 Test [Re: Volvohead]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 9218
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Some do have an early surface cracking issue.

Funny you mention this -- I've heard about it before, though I've never seen it. Any idea what models suffer from it?
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#3460488 - 08/20/14 04:40 PM Re: Consumer Reports Premier A/S vs Primacy MXV4 Test [Re: The Critic]
Volvohead Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 3550
Loc: SE Pa
d00df00d, I saw it first on a set of Pilot Exaltos, circa 2005-2006 (not mine). They were surface cracking on the sidewalls on one side of the car only, which we figured out was the side of the car facing the sun more during most days. It started about 2-3 years in, and then didn't worsen after year 4. It was a concern, but the cracking was deemed not too deep (superficial) to remove them from service. The owner was able to stick with them to year 7, at which time they replaced them with new Michelin MXV4s. They've been fine, but it's only been a couple of years on them.

I've since seen it on a couple other sets of Michelins (again, not ours), but not as bad as that one set of Exaltos. One was a set of Pilot Sports, but I don't recall the exact model.

But of all the sets of Michelins we've owned over the years, we have never had a cracking issue with any of them.

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#3460690 - 08/20/14 08:01 PM Re: Consumer Reports Premier A/S vs Primacy MXV4 Test [Re: The Critic]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7787
Loc: Barberton,Ohio
So they shaved one tire 3.5/32 and another tire more? so they were both equal at 5/32 depth?

Whats the point of that.


how about you shave each tire 50%

I am also skeptical about the wet traction after 5 years or so of aging/use.

I doubt it will be close to the new shaved tire performance.
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#3460884 - 08/21/14 12:24 AM Re: Consumer Reports Premier A/S vs Primacy MXV4 Test [Re: Rand]
raytseng Offline


Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 450
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Rand
So they shaved one tire 3.5/32 and another tire more? so they were both equal at 5/32 depth?

Whats the point of that.


how about you shave each tire 50%

I am also skeptical about the wet traction after 5 years or so of aging/use.

I doubt it will be close to the new shaved tire performance.


Cause 5/32s is near what ultra-conservative CR will state a smart safe shopper should change their tires (at 4/32s).

It's not about after x years of wear, it's about performance right before when CR has previously advocated you should ditch them

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