2014 Civic hatch Euro

[Hokiefyd]

It looks like something that you'd see in one of those Japanese cartoons to me. Especially the back. And I generally like Hondas, and funky cars in general. This one doesn't do anything for me, at least not yet. I do, however, recognize that new designs take a while to grow on me. The angle of her pictures probably don't help (too close). It does look better in the stock photos.

I like the conservative styling of the 2013+ Accord and the North American market Civic. I may grow to like this Euro Civic, but that will take time.

 

[Brybo86]

Originally Posted By: 01_celica_gt
Originally Posted By: Brybo86
Originally Posted By: kozanoglu
I am sure smog laws in the EU is thougher than in Cali.

I don't think so, 50% of new cars in Europe are diesel. Most cars are available with a diesel engine across the pond.


+1...brybo86 your tripping


Smog is directly related to nitrous oxide.
USA and California laws are much more strict than the EU regarding nitrous oxide ie smog.
This is why we in the USA have extensive exhaust treatment contraptions that are largely non-existent in the EU

 

[antiqueshell]

I prefer the car styling here, but remember that the EU car pictured here does NOT have DWB front suspension while US version does. This is very important if you care about great handling AND good comfort. The DWB is the better suspension compared to
the McPherson set up in the EU Civic.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I prefer the car styling here, but remember that the EU car pictured here does NOT have DWB front suspension while US version does. This is very important if you care about great handling AND good comfort. The DWB is the better suspension compared to
the McPherson set up in the EU Civic.


The North American Civic has had struts up front since 14 years ago (MY 2000 - 7th generation).

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I prefer the car styling here, but remember that the EU car pictured here does NOT have DWB front suspension while US version does. This is very important if you care about great handling AND good comfort. The DWB is the better suspension compared to
the McPherson set up in the EU Civic.


I get so tired of hearing this with regard to Hondas and we've owned eight of them, three of which used pure struts.
There's nothing terribly special about Honda's rather convoluted "double wishbone" front suspension, as they like to call it. The car still has struts and the struts still play a major role in determing front suspension geometry.
The Hondas we've had with the sharpest turn-in and the least understeer were old Civics with struts and no pretentions of "double wishbones". These were light cars with light engines and had far sharper handling than the four later Accords we've had, all of which have had "double wishbones".
If struts are so bad for handling, then why does BMW use them, or why were they used on the 911 for so many years?
I'd bet that the Euro Civic is tuned to be a sharper handling car then is the US model, without regard to front end design.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I prefer the car styling here, but remember that the EU car pictured here does NOT have DWB front suspension while US version does. This is very important if you care about great handling AND good comfort. The DWB is the better suspension compared to
the McPherson set up in the EU Civic.


The North American Civic has had struts up front since 14 years ago (MY 2000 - 7th generation).


Oops...LOL

Shows how old I am too.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I prefer the car styling here, but remember that the EU car pictured here does NOT have DWB front suspension while US version does. This is very important if you care about great handling AND good comfort. The DWB is the better suspension compared to
the McPherson set up in the EU Civic.


I get so tired of hearing this with regard to Hondas and we've owned eight of them, three of which used pure struts.
There's nothing terribly special about Honda's rather convoluted "double wishbone" front suspension, as they like to call it. The car still has struts and the struts still play a major role in determing front suspension geometry.
The Hondas we've had with the sharpest turn-in and the least understeer were old Civics with struts and no pretentions of "double wishbones". These were light cars with light engines and had far sharper handling than the four later Accords we've had, all of which have had "double wishbones".
If struts are so bad for handling, then why does BMW use them, or why were they used on the 911 for so many years?
I'd bet that the Euro Civic is tuned to be a sharper handling car then is the US model, without regard to front end design.



The difference with DWB is that the car will roll less with much less degree of anti-roll bar thickness compared to MS set ups. Also the degree of ride comfort is much better as well with DWB.

I've been around long enough to have actually driven most Accord and Civic models from 1984- present, and I felt that the DWB cars out of the box were the nicest cars to drive.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
The difference with DWB is that the car will roll less with much less degree of anti-roll bar thickness compared to MS set ups.


Sometimes/maybe. Due to the nature of how stuff down there is screwed together, the stabilizer bar has a 1:1 motion ratio with a MS design, meaning that one inch of vertical tire movement is translated into one inch of movement at the stabilizer bar, because the bar is linked to the strut itself. But with a wishbone suspension, the stabilizer bar is often connected to one of the wishbones, somewhere between the outer ball joint and the inner bushing. Let's say it's halfway out. This gives it a motion ratio of 2:1, meaning that for the end of the stabilizer bar to move up or down 1", the tire has to vertically travel 2". This reduces the leverage the stabilizer bar has on the tire, necessarily INCREASING its rate to compensate for that. A MS strut design can usually get away with a lighter stabilizer bar. The other side of that coin, though, is a wishbone setup usually offers more camber gain, which can compensate for body roll during cornering.

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Also the degree of ride comfort is much better as well with DWB.


I think it can be, depending on what you like. I used to own a 2011 Camry and could compare it directly to the 2011 Fusions we have at work. Camry, of course, uses struts all around. The Fusions use wishbones/multi-link. Ride quality in terms of isolation was better in the Fusion, but isolation comes at a compromise of road feel, for which I preferred the Camry. MS designs tend to use fewer bushings, which can translate into more direct response. BMW and Porsche both use strut designs, and likely due to this.

The real take-away here, in my opinion, is that there are no absolutes in suspension design.