Anti-idling regulations affecting your business?

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There are anti-idle laws in NY.

The people that create and pass these laws, go home to their 30000 square foot home and run an oil furnace all night ...
 
Since we routinely use our fleet vans as stationary power sources they idle a LOT. But most of their time sitting still is in traffic.

I can see the need for a bit of publicity but another law on the books seems a bit excessive...
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
There are anti-idle laws in NY.

The people that create and pass these laws, go home to their 30000 square foot home and run an oil furnace all night ...

"but, but but... it's for kids clean air...."
 
Very interested in reading some informed opinions from those who are affected, not those who haven't even read the article and decide to comment anyway.

The article offers some good strategies for minimizing your overall fuel consumption, and seems varied enough that one who does idle a large vehicle or a large fleet of vehicles can take some or all of it into consideration in their cost reduction efforts.

I'd be interested in knowing, for those of you who idle for long periods of time at one location simply for electrical needs (including, but not limited to tool usage, lighting and heaters,) how much sense a small, reliable genset would make. The article references an idle burn rate of 1 gal/hr (gph,) and I know that most of my personal, small vehicles burn 0.4 gph with things like that AC running (IIRC,) so it stands to reason a larger engine in, say, a van might fall somewhere in between.

Do the combined costs of additional fuel burnt, as well as any additional maintenance costs, add up to or exceed the cost of running a small generator or supplementing engine use with alternate means (e.g., batteries and solar panels)?

Again, this is coming from someone for whom this isn't applicable. I have the luxury of driving off soon after driving and shutting my engine off as soon as I've reached my destination. The only exception is if the windows are covered in a thick sheet of ice (common this past winter,) requiring more help than some spray-on de-icer and a scraper can provide, or when it's so blisteringly hot and humid that it wouldn't make sense to stop the engine for short periods of time for quick stops.
 
Originally Posted By: abycat
I'm glad we have no pollution laws up here. We can remove any emissions junk and it's legal.


I just got back from a country where black, sooty diesel exhaust was so prevalent from every bus, car and trucks tail end, that the smell saturated our clothing while walking along busy roads and gave us headaches. Even being stuck behind tour buses in a car with the windows cracked was painfully bad. It wasn't just a few people who were polluting, but what seemed like every single diesel, old or newish, as well as a lot of the older gassers.

Even here, it really ticks me off when people run catless or "roll coal," filling the otherwise benign-smelling lanes of traffic with noxious fumes.

I'm sure there's a happy medium or a range of acceptable parameters with respect to health concerns, efficiency, initial and carry-on vehicle costs, and etc., but I have to believe that many of us (and yes, our children) will be better off with cleaner air to breath. If a few hours in these conditions made my wife and I sick with headache (I work in construction, mind you,) then how do you think this might affect developing lungs or long-term health?

Now, it might not matter so much in a rural setting, as soot will fall to the ground in small amounts and any gases will be diluted, but that same philosophy can't hold true for suburban, let alone congested traffic ways and urban environments. It just doesn't pass the common sense test.

Finally, this isn't to say that our emissions controls are perfect or even close (see my previous paragraph.) It seems that we as a nation are fixated on NOX, and take measures to combat it (e.g., lower adiabatic flame-front temps via methods such as VVC or EGR,) despite what other pollutants or consequences may be involved; however, compare us to some congested 3rd world and countries with seemingly 3rd-world pollution standards and the future for us looks pretty bright...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: abycat
I'm glad we have no pollution laws up here. We can remove any emissions junk and it's legal.


Not true. Removing any emissions equipment is a violation of federal law, not Alberta law
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: abycat
I'm glad we have no pollution laws up here. We can remove any emissions junk and it's legal.

So...you actually LIKE breathing in pollutants and carcinogens?
confused.gif
 
I drive a truck for a living. Right now I'm in a leased truck that will not idle more than five minutes before it shuts itself down. Always at the most inopportune time. The last thing I need is big government looking over my shoulder. They can kiss it.
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: abycat
I'm glad we have no pollution laws up here. We can remove any emissions junk and it's legal.


Not true. Removing any emissions equipment is a violation of federal law, not Alberta law


we do it all the time up here. Our trucks pass inspections without cats or mufflers.
We bought a 2012 5500 and had the dpf system removed and put a light tune in it and Dodge still warrantys everything. The thing is that you can't put pollution controls on the rigs so you can't make anything else have it. The rigs give off more pollution than a few thousand guys with modded trucks.
 
Originally Posted By: abycat
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: abycat
I'm glad we have no pollution laws up here. We can remove any emissions junk and it's legal.


Not true. Removing any emissions equipment is a violation of federal law, not Alberta law


we do it all the time up here. Our trucks pass inspections without cats or mufflers.
We bought a 2012 5500 and had the dpf system removed and put a light tune in it and Dodge still warrantys everything. The thing is that you can't put pollution controls on the rigs so you can't make anything else have it. The rigs give off more pollution than a few thousand guys with modded trucks.


I don't know what rigs you are talking about, but making any changes or modifications to the factory installed emissions on automobiles is against federal law. This is clear as day, and I have had this augment with others from AB, and I win every time.
 
Here you go. It's not passed yet.


In Alberta, installing a DPF delete kit itself is not a regulatory offence, according to Alberta Transportation spokesperson and public affairs officer Trent Bancarz. However, the annual Commercial Vehicle Inspection Program (CVIP) inspections conducted on all large trucks do require an OEM or equivalent exhaust system.

“This CVIP criteria comes from the National Safety Code Standard 11B, which all provinces have adopted,” he said. “If the only thing a vehicle owner has done is have a DPF Delete kit installed, then the vehicle should fail a CVIP inspection. The 11B criteria is being reviewed currently. It is expected the criteria pertaining to emission systems will be clearer, and a DPF Delete kit or removing emission systems will be a clear reje
ct criteria. When the 11B is updated, a commercial truck with a DPF Delete kit will not pass an Alberta CVIP inspection.”
 
If everyone just rips off the emissions equipment then where do we go? That is just nuts, and also illegal.

That dealership should be closed down. Have some responsibility to the future for goodness sake...
 
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
I drive a truck for a living. Right now I'm in a leased truck that will not idle more than five minutes before it shuts itself down. Always at the most inopportune time. The last thing I need is big government looking over my shoulder. They can kiss it.


Sounds pretty neat. Keeps you from getting a fine. Still plenty of exemptions to fall under too.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/truck-idling/truck-idling.htm
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/truck-idling/factsheet.pdf

FACTS ABOUT
California’s Commercial Vehicle Idling Regulations
Idling diesel trucks and buses create toxic air pollution, contribute to global warming, and waste costly fuel – and in some cases, the operator may be breaking the law. Find out how you can help keep emissions in check so we can all breathe easier.
Which vehicles are covered?
Heavy-duty diesel vehicles with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 10,000 lbs. or heavier.
How long can I idle?
Idling for more than 5 minutes is prohibited within California’s borders. While at a school, the driver must shut down the engine immediately upon arrival and leave within 30 seconds of starting the engine.
What are the fines?
Fines start at $300 and can be as much as $1000 per day.
Are there situations where idling is allowed?
Yes. Idling is allowed in the following situations:

You are stuck in traffic

When idling is necessary to inspect or service your vehicle

You are operating a power take-off device

You cannot move due to adverse weather conditions or mechanical failure

You are queuing (must be beyond 100 feet from any residential area)

Your truck’s engine meets the optional low-NOx idling emission standard, and your truck is located more than 100 feet from any residential area (clean-idle label required)
See www.arb.ca.gov/noidle for a complete list of exemptions.
If I can’t idle, what can I do about cab comfort?
Listed below are some available idle reduction technologies:

Battery-powered auxiliary power systems

Fuel-fired heaters (restrictions apply; see www.arb.ca.gov/noidle)

Diesel-fueled auxiliary power systems (restrictions apply; see www.arb.ca.gov/noidle)

Truck stop hookups that provide heat, cooling, electricity and other services throughout California
Visit www.arb.ca.gov/cabcomfort for further details on these and other idle-reduction technologies.
What restrictions apply to idle-reduction technologies?

You may not operate a diesel-fueled auxiliary power system for more than 5 minutes within a 100 feet of a residential area

Diesel-fueled auxiliary power systems (APS) on trucks with 2007 or newer model year engines must meet additional requirements (verified clean APS label required)

Fuel-fired heaters must meet certain emission standards
Visit www.arb.ca.gov/noidle for further details.
If I see a truck illegally idling, what should I do?
Call us at 1-800-END-SMOG or email [email protected] with the following information:

Date and time you saw violation

Location (cross streets or address, and city) of the incident

License plate number from the front of the truck, including state

DOT, MC and MX number from side of door

Company name and any identifying marks on the truck

Details about the observed idling violation
Your calls or email may be kept anonymous, if requested.
Where can I get more information?

www.arb.ca.gov/noidle

1-800-242-4450
PO BOX 2815 SACRAMENTO CA 95812 (800) 242-4450
www.arb.ca.gov
REVISED 05/23/13
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
If everyone just rips off the emissions equipment then where do we go? That is just nuts, and also illegal.

That dealership should be closed down. Have some responsibility to the future for goodness sake...


I remember when I considered running a catless tune on my old STI. That was before I traveled behind a group of other catless STI's on their way to Wicked Big Meet and realized how absolutely, unequivocally disrespectful and stupid it was and still is.

A dedicated race car? Sure, what do I care?

Your daily-driver? Disrespectful scum bag.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
If everyone just rips off the emissions equipment then where do we go? That is just nuts, and also illegal.

That dealership should be closed down. Have some responsibility to the future for goodness sake...


Some people do it simply to restore basic functionality! We have a tractor at work...2010 International, randomly shutting down because of the emission system. It went in today for a new DPF...its THIRD one, at $6500 (wholesale) a whack! If the old one has any damage to the core, the core charge is $2000.

Honestly, if I had to drop $13,000+ on an emission system...the next time, it would come off!

Diesel power has jumped the shark.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
If everyone just rips off the emissions equipment then where do we go? That is just nuts, and also illegal.

That dealership should be closed down. Have some responsibility to the future for goodness sake...


Some people do it simply to restore basic functionality! We have a tractor at work...2010 International, randomly shutting down because of the emission system. It went in today for a new DPF...its THIRD one, at $6500 (wholesale) a whack! If the old one has any damage to the core, the core charge is $2000.

Honestly, if I had to drop $13,000+ on an emission system...the next time, it would come off!

Diesel power has jumped the shark.


I absolutely agree with the last line.

Anyone remember the early days of cats and EGR? Those stunk, too.

The problem is if everyone keeps ripping off emissions equipment there will only be a few changes, all of them bad.

One will be dirtier air. The other will be big fees and LOOOONG lines at the vehicle inspection stations!!!
 
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