When getting ready to buy a new vechicle-noticed an add-on sticker"Nitrogen in all (4) tires" price was $199.00-no kidding! I decided to look into this since we use nitrogen to test industrail a/c equipment for freon leaks-(because it is cheap!). I Googled 15" tire x 9" volume of air =4.8 cu.ft @ 30 psi. lets say 5cu.ft-for (1) tire. a 300cu.ft bottle of nitrogen costs $29.00 includes bottle rent. Ok simple math (1) 300cu ft bottle will fill 60 tires. Thats $ 2.00 per tire. However you also get these cheesy bright green valve stem caps-maybe that is the Extra $$$, hah-watch out! To boot when the weather gets cold the nitrogen contracts even more than compressed air-so I am not seeing any advantages. BTW the air we breath is like 78% nitrogen, some Oxygen, Co2, traces of other.Buyer beware!
Nitrogen in tires-dealer add-on $199.00-Really!
- Thread starter kawzak
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That surprises you stealership!
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
Yeah the 78% nitrogen in my tires is fancy enough for me. I'm surprised Jiffy Lube and other places don't advertise to change the air in your tires every 6 months with Nitrogen to extend the life of your tires lol.
That is simply for anyone they can sucker into paying for it. Then they probably use that as a bargaining point saying okay we will give you that, and convince you that you are now somehow ahead. I would not do business at all with a dealer resorting to that type of chicanery.
I would either leave or state flat out that i know better and the $199.00 is off the table before we even discuss bargaining.
I would either leave or state flat out that i know better and the $199.00 is off the table before we even discuss bargaining.
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Nitrogen gas obeys the ideal gas law, PV = nRT familiar to science/engineering people. Air does this too. The only thing about the nitrogen is it might have less water vapor amongst it. Having less oxygen is also better on the tire lining, not much difference anyway really. Air is just fine.
Was this $199 listed on the window sticker ?
Bud_One
Site Donor 2022
That reminds me of a "Winter to Summer Air Service" performed on your tires for 30 bucks. We once had a tech recommend the service to a rookie service advisor, which in turn sold it to the customer. He wanted the service performed on his vehicle too..
Of course the tech had to explain it to him that it was a joke. But it amazed me how clueless the general public (and some service personel) are when it comes to automotive repairs and services.
Of course the tech had to explain it to him that it was a joke. But it amazed me how clueless the general public (and some service personel) are when it comes to automotive repairs and services.
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That's insane!!!!
I've always used nitrogen and I find it to be great for me, ymmv.
My initial cost was about $15-20 for all four tires, that includes lifetime fills. No more bothering with gas station air, I just go to my shop and they do the check and top up if needed. Usually I will see about a 1-2psi loss on one or two tires, sometimes none, over four-five months. I like it for its advantages/benefits.
If interested in those, see this link.
http://www.getnitrogen.org/deepscience/
I've always used nitrogen and I find it to be great for me, ymmv.
My initial cost was about $15-20 for all four tires, that includes lifetime fills. No more bothering with gas station air, I just go to my shop and they do the check and top up if needed. Usually I will see about a 1-2psi loss on one or two tires, sometimes none, over four-five months. I like it for its advantages/benefits.
If interested in those, see this link.
http://www.getnitrogen.org/deepscience/
JHZR2
Staff member
Wow, Im always amazed at these things, because though I have seen some add ons at some dealers, never anything as ridiculous as things like $199 nitrogen inflation.
That said, whats even worse is that some folks are so dumb that they fall for it.
That said, whats even worse is that some folks are so dumb that they fall for it.
Originally Posted By: boundarylayer
Nitrogen gas obeys the ideal gas law, PV = nRT familiar to science/engineering people. Air does this too. The only thing about the nitrogen is it might have less water vapor amongst it. Having less oxygen is also better on the tire lining, not much difference anyway really. Air is just fine.
Actually, no gas obeys the ideal gas law. They all deviate; it's just a matter of how much. pV = nRT is fine for back-of-the-envelope calculations; but for serious work, scientists and engineers use the van der Waals equation:
http://www.chem.ufl.edu/~itl/2045/lectures/lec_e.html
Nitrogen gas obeys the ideal gas law, PV = nRT familiar to science/engineering people. Air does this too. The only thing about the nitrogen is it might have less water vapor amongst it. Having less oxygen is also better on the tire lining, not much difference anyway really. Air is just fine.
Actually, no gas obeys the ideal gas law. They all deviate; it's just a matter of how much. pV = nRT is fine for back-of-the-envelope calculations; but for serious work, scientists and engineers use the van der Waals equation:
http://www.chem.ufl.edu/~itl/2045/lectures/lec_e.html
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
That said, whats even worse is that some folks are so dumb that they fall for it.
Somewhat common in the transportation industry in this area. Contractors will fill their tires and think they can forget about them.
That said, whats even worse is that some folks are so dumb that they fall for it.
Somewhat common in the transportation industry in this area. Contractors will fill their tires and think they can forget about them.
I wonder if the tire manufacturers know that there is oxygen and nitrogen in the air that people put in their tires? If they do, then it's probably okay to continue using air to fill the tires. When they design the tires they probably account for the air that they know most people will use. Maybe the dealership should try helium to cut down on unsprung weight.
I did see this on the sticker-"add on" Nitrogen in (4) tires $199.00, along with some other item-it was right beside the regular big paper sheet with all the info/MSRP, etc. As some one said-they will act like they are giving you something-while poking you in the eyes with the price of your trade in -or-MSRP which ususlly has about $2500.00-3500.00 of fluff on a $25k vechicle.I pulled wrenches at a dealership years ago-I know their games. If you do your home work on your trade, check new vechicle pricing from a "Consumer report" (cost about $18.00) you will be armed with good numbers-then they only have the financing to try to catch you with-so-you should have gone to your credit ubion ahead of time on that too. BTW -no I did not pay a dime for any add-on nitrogen.FYI many dealers are attempting this. Look around for newer cars/trucks with lime green valve caps that people are driving.
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Yeah the 78% nitrogen in my tires is fancy enough for me. I'm surprised Jiffy Lube and other places don't advertise to change the air in your tires every 6 months with Nitrogen to extend the life of your tires lol.
Yep. I figure its like Motorcraft oil. The Synblend is plenty good enough. Laugh all you want, but if there were a way to UOA tire air, people would do it.
Yeah the 78% nitrogen in my tires is fancy enough for me. I'm surprised Jiffy Lube and other places don't advertise to change the air in your tires every 6 months with Nitrogen to extend the life of your tires lol.
Yep. I figure its like Motorcraft oil. The Synblend is plenty good enough. Laugh all you want, but if there were a way to UOA tire air, people would do it.
Originally Posted By: boundarylayer
Nitrogen gas obeys the ideal gas law, PV = nRT familiar to science/engineering people. Air does this too. The only thing about the nitrogen is it might have less water vapor amongst it. Having less oxygen is also better on the tire lining, not much difference anyway really. Air is just fine.
I basically agree with boundarylayer. They can put Nitrogen in my tires if they want but I won't pay for it. The only real advantage is that it's a dry gas (ie no water or water vapour in it). Water in your tires is not a great idea.
I don't buy the less oxidation theory. If there truly was oxidation going on inside the tire, the O2 would be converted to CO2 and the oxidation would stop anyway.
And PV=nRT is close enough.
Nitrogen gas obeys the ideal gas law, PV = nRT familiar to science/engineering people. Air does this too. The only thing about the nitrogen is it might have less water vapor amongst it. Having less oxygen is also better on the tire lining, not much difference anyway really. Air is just fine.
I basically agree with boundarylayer. They can put Nitrogen in my tires if they want but I won't pay for it. The only real advantage is that it's a dry gas (ie no water or water vapour in it). Water in your tires is not a great idea.
I don't buy the less oxidation theory. If there truly was oxidation going on inside the tire, the O2 would be converted to CO2 and the oxidation would stop anyway.
And PV=nRT is close enough.
The machine for this used to be 50k.as for relevancy?on car?bof!on commercial vehicle tho,yes its relevant .temperature .pressure stability (dually )
Originally Posted By: HardbodyLoyalist
Originally Posted By: boundarylayer
Nitrogen gas obeys the ideal gas law, PV = nRT familiar to science/engineering people. Air does this too. The only thing about the nitrogen is it might have less water vapor amongst it. Having less oxygen is also better on the tire lining, not much difference anyway really. Air is just fine.
Actually, no gas obeys the ideal gas law. They all deviate; it's just a matter of how much. pV = nRT is fine for back-of-the-envelope calculations; but for serious work, scientists and engineers use the van der Waals equation:
http://www.chem.ufl.edu/~itl/2045/lectures/lec_e.html
OK, Mr. Science, thats useful to car tires. Right. The truth: Ideal gas law works extremely well at car tire temperatures and pressures, probably off by no more than a tiny fraction of a percent. You have to get cold and/or high pressure before seeing significant deviations.
Originally Posted By: boundarylayer
Nitrogen gas obeys the ideal gas law, PV = nRT familiar to science/engineering people. Air does this too. The only thing about the nitrogen is it might have less water vapor amongst it. Having less oxygen is also better on the tire lining, not much difference anyway really. Air is just fine.
Actually, no gas obeys the ideal gas law. They all deviate; it's just a matter of how much. pV = nRT is fine for back-of-the-envelope calculations; but for serious work, scientists and engineers use the van der Waals equation:
http://www.chem.ufl.edu/~itl/2045/lectures/lec_e.html
OK, Mr. Science, thats useful to car tires. Right. The truth: Ideal gas law works extremely well at car tire temperatures and pressures, probably off by no more than a tiny fraction of a percent. You have to get cold and/or high pressure before seeing significant deviations.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
They don't get nitrogen from bottles. They have some sort of electronic concentrator that's "good enough".
Most would use a membrane nitrogen generator to fill on-site tanks. The principle is similar to a reverse osmosis water filtration unit. However, the ones that tire shops tend to have might achieve closer to 98% nitrogen, and as a practical matter, 93 to 95% is what can be achieved in the tire unless a vacuum is created, which can damage the tire.
They don't get nitrogen from bottles. They have some sort of electronic concentrator that's "good enough".
Most would use a membrane nitrogen generator to fill on-site tanks. The principle is similar to a reverse osmosis water filtration unit. However, the ones that tire shops tend to have might achieve closer to 98% nitrogen, and as a practical matter, 93 to 95% is what can be achieved in the tire unless a vacuum is created, which can damage the tire.
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