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#3453470 - 08/12/14 12:41 PM Re: BMW filter options [Re: srbarnes4ever]
boundarylayer Offline


Registered: 06/29/14
Posts: 202
Loc: California
Fram ExtraGuard isn't bad at all. It uses at least some glass fibers to get a similar performance as what the wix does:


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#3453479 - 08/12/14 12:47 PM Re: BMW filter options [Re: srbarnes4ever]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2732
Loc: Upper Midwest
So you all are saying the Fram or Wix performs better. I'm still a bit unsure how you know this and what difference it will make in 200,000 miles.

Pretty pictures but???
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 190K
1996 Honda Accord, 203K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 308K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 228K

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#3453482 - 08/12/14 12:48 PM Re: BMW filter options [Re: boundarylayer]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2732
Loc: Upper Midwest
Your comments and your picture - they are related to performance how?

Originally Posted By: boundarylayer
Fram ExtraGuard isn't bad at all. It uses at least some glass fibers to get a similar performance as what the wix does:

_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 190K
1996 Honda Accord, 203K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 308K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 228K

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#3453484 - 08/12/14 12:50 PM Re: BMW filter options [Re: kschachn]
boundarylayer Offline


Registered: 06/29/14
Posts: 202
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: kschachn
So you all are saying the Fram or Wix performs better. I'm still a bit unsure how you know this and what difference it will make in 200,000 miles.

Pretty pictures but???


You have 2400 posts on BITOG. You must know about ZeeOSix digging up performance specs on the Fram and Wix oil filters. Yes, there are published filter performance specs available on the web for the Fram and Wix oil filters. ISO 4548-12 multi-pass performance specs say they are quite good.

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#3453504 - 08/12/14 01:04 PM Re: BMW filter options [Re: boundarylayer]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2732
Loc: Upper Midwest
Seriously? You have no idea what the specs are for the BMW/Hengst/Mann/Mahle (except that for the BMW ones they meet any performance specs the manufacturer requires), nor do you have a clear indication of the construction and what difference it makes, yet you pontificate on and on about the advantages to the Fram and Wix?

Please explain to me once again the part about how it matters. I know about ZeeOSix's obsession with filters and we've gone over it before. Tell me how the OEM filter is bad for my engine and what clear, convincing improvement I will get with that Fram filter.

Originally Posted By: boundarylayer
Originally Posted By: kschachn
So you all are saying the Fram or Wix performs better. I'm still a bit unsure how you know this and what difference it will make in 200,000 miles.

Pretty pictures but???


You have 2400 posts on BITOG. You must know about ZeeOSix digging up performance specs on the Fram and Wix oil filters. Yes, there are published filter performance specs available on the web for the Fram and Wix oil filters. ISO 4548-12 multi-pass performance specs say they are quite good.
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 190K
1996 Honda Accord, 203K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 308K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 228K

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#3453509 - 08/12/14 01:05 PM Re: BMW filter options [Re: srbarnes4ever]
boundarylayer Offline


Registered: 06/29/14
Posts: 202
Loc: California
Another reason not to use a cellulose only media oil filter, see the 4th page down in this document (the rest of the doc is good too): http://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/support/datalibrary/070618.pdf

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#3453528 - 08/12/14 01:15 PM Re: BMW filter options [Re: dparm]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33971
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: srbarnes4ever
Coming from a long line of Nissan/Infiniti vehicles to an all Bimmer garage I am wondering if there are non OE options for filters that are superior to BMW or equivalent for cheaper price. Oil changes at my Indy still run just shy of $100 so considering doing my own going forward.

Thx!



There are plenty of good choices. Many BMW oil filters are Mahle. You can just buy the exact same part, sans BMW branding, from Amazon, NAPA, etc. It's what I have done for years. FYI, my OEM oil filter is about $12 more just to get the one in a BMW box versus the identical filter in a Mahle box (via Amazon).

You've also got Mann/Purolator and Hengst, two other big OEM filter suppliers. They're available at the same places too.


+1.

Mahle and Mann are the way to go, Hengst is fine too. I dont always trust Bosch when it comes to filters, but they may be good too.

Between the above brands, Id just shop on price.

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#3453531 - 08/12/14 01:18 PM Re: BMW filter options [Re: srbarnes4ever]
Dufus2 Offline


Registered: 12/12/13
Posts: 190
Loc: Virginia
Obsessed with proving a point beyond what the OP was asking in reference to.. Good Grief Charlie Brown (Shultz)
_________________________
ASE Certified in Med/Heavy Truck Service including A9
Heavy Equipment Repair, Fleet Maintenance
Real Cars Rattle and Smoke a Little

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#3453575 - 08/12/14 01:52 PM Re: BMW filter options [Re: Dufus2]
boundarylayer Offline


Registered: 06/29/14
Posts: 202
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Dufus2
Obsessed with proving a point beyond what the OP was asking in reference to.. Good Grief Charlie Brown (Shultz)


Come back and post when you have actual information. Your guesses aren't good enough.

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#3453583 - 08/12/14 02:00 PM Re: BMW filter options [Re: kschachn]
route66mike Offline


Registered: 07/09/14
Posts: 147
Loc: Ft. Collins
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Seriously? You have no idea what the specs are for the BMW/Hengst/Mann/Mahle (except that for the BMW ones they meet any performance specs the manufacturer requires), nor do you have a clear indication of the construction and what difference it makes, yet you pontificate on and on about the advantages to the Fram and Wix


Looks like you are still missing the point.
I'll clarify. The German oil filters don't disclose their performance specs. We do know they use 100% paper cellulose filter media. Now, compare their choice of media (cheaper), with the superior performing media found in Fram/Wix.
And we also know Fram and Wix publish excellent performance specs.

Conclusion: Use the oil filters that have better media with known great specs. (Also, the pictures show us that Mann filters in particular have low media surface area, not good.)

Thats all. Let logic reign.

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#3453588 - 08/12/14 02:08 PM Re: BMW filter options [Re: srbarnes4ever]
route66mike Offline


Registered: 07/09/14
Posts: 147
Loc: Ft. Collins
Its a little like a motor oil. If a brand of oil doesn't tell us what specs it meets, should we use it? Fram/Wix tells us their specs. Sure all these oil filters meet a minimum filtration/pressure spec from BMW, yet we enthusiasts can do better.

If we think the company is not just interested in profits, we like the company, so we implicitly trust their willingness to exceed OEM specs? I think Mahle/Hengst/Mann hides their specs because they aren't that good, as evidenced by their use of lowly paper (missing the glass fibers or other synthetic fibers).

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#3453592 - 08/12/14 02:12 PM Re: BMW filter options [Re: Dufus2]
route66mike Offline


Registered: 07/09/14
Posts: 147
Loc: Ft. Collins
Originally Posted By: Dufus2
Obsessed with proving a point beyond what the OP was asking in reference to.. Good Grief Charlie Brown (Shultz)


You lost all credibility from this other oil+filter thread recently. You said:
Originally Posted By: Dufus2
A German built filter is better suited to this type of car, thats what I use in my Mercedes. Oil in the US market does not meet the stringent ACEA standards of Europe, keep your OCI within reason to preserve the longevity of your vehicle.


BTW, the OP asked for which filters were superior. Not somebody's guess based on how pretty the box it came in was.

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#3453629 - 08/12/14 02:56 PM Re: BMW filter options [Re: route66mike]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 26146
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: route66mike
And we also know Fram and Wix publish excellent performance specs.

How do you define performance? It's a fine balancing act between filtration efficiency and flow. Filtration efficiency alone is not everything.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3453631 - 08/12/14 02:58 PM Re: BMW filter options [Re: ElastoHydro]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 26146
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
The only clue we have about the filtration efficiency of Mahle or Mann or Hengst German oil filters is that it appears they don't use glass fibers, they use only paper cellulose media.

Mann/Mahle do use synthetic fiber media (fleece) in some applications...

_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3453664 - 08/12/14 03:30 PM Re: BMW filter options [Re: Quattro Pete]
route66mike Offline


Registered: 07/09/14
Posts: 147
Loc: Ft. Collins
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: route66mike
And we also know Fram and Wix publish excellent performance specs.

How do you define performance? It's a fine balancing act between filtration efficiency and flow. Filtration efficiency alone is not everything.


Its the use of glass or polyester microfibers, blended with cellulose, or alone (Ultra), that gives an oil filter a higher combination of flow and finer filtration at the same time.

The engineers at all these companies make sure the pressure drops aren't excessive, and its been shown on these forums how we don't need to worry about flow happening just fine.

So then it just becomes a matter of how much and how small of particles the user wants removed from the oil. Again, the all-cellulose oil filters don't get out the small stuff as good as the blended or all-synthetic filters, as proven by ISO 4548-12 tests, and Donaldson's reference in a post above says this. 4548-12 is a good multiple pass test that tells us whats going on. We know 4548-12 for Fram and Wix, not the paper-only German brands.

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