Michelin Pilot Super Sport

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: 97tbird
The Bimmer will just have to do with a good A/S HP/UHP tire, and will consider Michelin A/S-3 for sure., along with GmMax, about which I've heard a lot of good things in BMW forums..


Just be cautious about that recommendation, as the Hankook Ventus V12's I bought were recommended on the BMW forums as a great tire, and IMO they were only 'good' for about the first 50% of their tread. After that they stank up the place fast!

IME the best thing about my Michelin tire choices is they do not change performance much across the life of the tire...
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Additional benefits of the A/S 3 are a LONG treadwear warranty (60k miles!)

TR says 45k miles, but still decent for this category.


And hardly believable to me as I have never had any tire last longer than 19k miles on this car...
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: 97tbird
The Bimmer will just have to do with a good A/S HP/UHP tire, and will consider Michelin A/S-3 for sure., along with GmMax, about which I've heard a lot of good things in BMW forums..


Just be cautious about that recommendation, as the Hankook Ventus V12's I bought were recommended on the BMW forums as a great tire, and IMO they were only 'good' for about the first 50% of their tread. After that they stank up the place fast!

IME the best thing about my Michelin tire choices is they do not change performance much across the life of the tire...

All points heartily seconded.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Additional benefits of the A/S 3 are a LONG treadwear warranty (60k miles!)

TR says 45k miles, but still decent for this category.


I stand corrected. Thanks.
 
Wife's Fit will need new tires next year. It has Conti DWS's on it right now, and is a ball of fun with those tires. We do need a tire that is safe in light snow so we can get home to swap on the snow tires. PSS's likely wouldn't do, but the AS3's just might fit the bill.
 
I pushed the MS3 a bit on some wet entrance ramps this morning and the PSS did pretty well at both steering and putting down @320 lb-ft of torque through the front wheels.

Funny thing; I bought a JBR adjustable rear anti-roll bar and a couple of fellow track rats with MS3s advised setting the bar at full stiff(88% more than stock). Even though I have much more track experience in BMWs I cautiously set my bar at the 50% stiffer setting. I honestly can't see the point of cranking the bar any stiffer as the car's turn in is immediate and the overall chassis balance is now almost completely neutral. I wonder if the added grip of the PSS (and possibly the damping qualities of the FSDs) have a greater effect on the overall balance than I previously thought?
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Alas it looks like I'll get 40k out of the uhp runflats, so time may be the determinant...

40k until the wear bars, or 40k until they suck to drive on?


From my experience the improvement in ride quality alone would be worth the purchase of new PSS's. Those run flat tires ride very poorly...


Till the wear bars, but I can appreciate that the more compliant ride may be better, given how bad the roads have gotten after this past winter.
 
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: krzyss
Originally Posted By: 97tbird
A Bit OT:
I feel a bit jealous about some being able to run dedicated summer tires like Michelin PSS, etc.
ALthough my ZHP handles so good on summer tires, I just can't justify paying for different tires in different seasons, and I want to be safe in rainy and light snow weather, too.

Guess my search for good UHP/HP All-seasons will continue.

Have Conti DWS right now, and 75% happy with them, but flatspotting when parked is making me wonder about something else for the future...
Very curious about General G Max 03


Do you know that most summer tires are very good in the wet? Even better than all seasons which must use hydrophilic compouds for winter traction.

There are dry only summer tires but you do not need to buy them (Kumho XS is one of dry focused summer tires - C&D called them diabolical in the wet).

Krzys

Hydrophilic compounds help with wet traction. Most tires (even summer tires) these days contain more and more silica, which is supposed to help with all-temperature flexibility, reduction of rolling resistance, and to prevent chunking. A side benefit is that the silica is inherently hydrophilic.

There's static properties to water. Of course water results in hydroplaning at a macro and micro level, but wettability of the compound helps where the rubber contacts the pavement. I know it sounds odd, but you can see this by getting a wet piece of paper to stick to a wet surface, while a similar weight sheet of plastic won't.

Here's an interesting pieces from the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Lab:

Quote:
http://www.jhuapl.edu/ott/technologies/technology/articles/P03636.asp

We plan to use the commonly used sio2 filler but with different morphology for improving the overall rubber stiffness—i.e., lowering the rolling resistance—and, because of the hydrophilicity of silica, the wet traction will improve at the same time. The Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory is well equipped to make these nano-sized silica structures (electro-spinning) and has a well-established sol-gel process for making them.


We've gone over this debate before in this forum.


My point was that summer tires are not dry only tires.

Krzys
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Yes, I would have to be SURE that the PSSes would deliver maybe even MORE grip than a set of 'semi-R' compound, 100 treadwear rated Toyo RA-1s or R888s on my current, somewhat light, 16" wheels, vs. spending $2500+ on a set of 18" wheels which would then allow me to run the PSSes (for another ~$1200 or so).

In the dry: not a chance.

In the wet: like you wouldn't believe.

But again, if you have to upsize, it's not worth it.

Is the Bridgestone Potenza RE-11A available for your size?


No, there are NO B-stones (or any other manufacturer for that matter), save for the old, now defunct, RE960 which were made in this size (245, or 255/50-16).
The only VERY high performance summer only tires made in this size are the 100 treadwear, above mentioned Toyos, and the narrow for a 245, but very sticky regardless, Nitto NT-01.

That being said, the BF Goodrich g force Super Sport all seasons which are on the stock wheels currently, are VERY impressive in the wet AND dry for an all season, and I believe there were the inspiration for parent company Michelin to develop the Pilot Sport AS/3.
wink.gif


OF COURSE the PSS will be light years better than ANY of the above in the wet, but I was talking about DRY grip only in my post above.
 
Originally Posted By: krzyss
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: krzyss
Originally Posted By: 97tbird
A Bit OT:
I feel a bit jealous about some being able to run dedicated summer tires like Michelin PSS, etc.
ALthough my ZHP handles so good on summer tires, I just can't justify paying for different tires in different seasons, and I want to be safe in rainy and light snow weather, too.

Guess my search for good UHP/HP All-seasons will continue.

Have Conti DWS right now, and 75% happy with them, but flatspotting when parked is making me wonder about something else for the future...
Very curious about General G Max 03


Do you know that most summer tires are very good in the wet? Even better than all seasons which must use hydrophilic compouds for winter traction.

There are dry only summer tires but you do not need to buy them (Kumho XS is one of dry focused summer tires - C&D called them diabolical in the wet).

Krzys

Hydrophilic compounds help with wet traction. Most tires (even summer tires) these days contain more and more silica, which is supposed to help with all-temperature flexibility, reduction of rolling resistance, and to prevent chunking. A side benefit is that the silica is inherently hydrophilic.

There's static properties to water. Of course water results in hydroplaning at a macro and micro level, but wettability of the compound helps where the rubber contacts the pavement. I know it sounds odd, but you can see this by getting a wet piece of paper to stick to a wet surface, while a similar weight sheet of plastic won't.

Here's an interesting pieces from the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Lab:

Quote:
http://www.jhuapl.edu/ott/technologies/technology/articles/P03636.asp

We plan to use the commonly used sio2 filler but with different morphology for improving the overall rubber stiffness—i.e., lowering the rolling resistance—and, because of the hydrophilicity of silica, the wet traction will improve at the same time. The Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory is well equipped to make these nano-sized silica structures (electro-spinning) and has a well-established sol-gel process for making them.


We've gone over this debate before in this forum.


My point was that summer tires are not dry only tires.

Krzys

Wasn't sure what your comment about hydrophilic compounds was supposed to mean - whether you thought it was better or worse for wet traction. Of course it's far more complicated than just one factor.

Just having hydrophilic tread (which nearly all tires have these days to some extent) of course isn't enough in the snow. The tire has to remain reasonably pliable in the snow, and most summer tires aren't meant for that. I remember driving a set when it was near freezing, and it was a little bit hairy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top