changing too soon ?????

[nicholas]

Hey guys im sure this has been covered before.
I have been tought to change my oil filter when i change my oil 8000kms,/ 5000miles.

I was going through the manual on my uncles 79monte carlo, and it specs to change the filter every 12,000-15,000 kms.

Also on my suzuki sv650s the manual states to change the oil filter 18,000 kms....., and the dealership backs this up as well.
My bike shares the engine and clutch oil. So you would think the filter should be replaced even soon than a gasoline engine.

And I remember that study done on the mobil 1 super syn, I think it was three mad poncho's ?
They ran a filter for over 10,000 miles ! with no problems or change in filter ability., maybe it was even longer ?

So why are we all changing out the filters so soon ??,
"cheap insurance" some might say.... well i am going to start changine my filters every other oil change. 16,000 kms.
changing the filter with every oil drop, 3000 miles, is like brushing your teeth every hour., cheap insurance agains cavities but a waste of time.

-nick-

 

[Filter guy]

Change your filter when you change your oil...simple as.

 

[nicholas]

Just what I thought, I raised some really good points, and not one person argues a valid reason.

Just some texan with the screen name filter guy.
"just change it .... simple as" ???

I thought this was a discussion board ?
whatever, I expected as much

 

[wavinwayne]

I agree with filter guy.

 

[Dad2leia]

nicholas, unless you go out of your way to spend the most fundage possible on you oil filters, they are, in fact, "cheap" insurance against any nasties making their way through your crankcase. Filter guy was just stating that if your going to get dirty to change the oil, why not spend the few extra bucks, and extra minute or so to change the filter, then you'll have no extra variables to worry about in your equation.

 

[rg144]

If you do change the filter, it's one less worry. If you don't, you save a few bucks and effeciency probably increases. So it boils down to is it worth the gamble of maxing out the media, failure of the media, failure of the ADBV? Not if it's only a $2 filter, but yes if it's a $10 M1.

[ November 07, 2005, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: rg144 ]

 

[farrarfan1]

There really isn't much to discuss. Most people just change the filter at the time they change the oil.For an extra 3 or 4 dollars and a few minutes time it seems like a no brainer.If you want to follow the owners manual gudelines then by all means follow it.Incidentally, Filter Guy worked at one time for Champ labs. He does know a little about filters.

 

[Ray H]

quote:

---

Originally posted by nicholas:
...Just some texan with the screen name filter guy...

---

And who just happens to have worked for Champion Labs at one time. I have no quarrel with those who change oil filters every second oil change - it can't really hurt, even if the ADB flap loses some resiliency. I just don't want to have to rely on memory or make a note (that I'll probably lose anyway) of when I last changed the oil filter. (Not everyone's as smart as you are, nicholas.)

 

[nicholas]

My point is ,
If all the entended OCI's show that oil filters can last and FILTER well past the 10,000 mile mark, why are people still changing them soo soon.

we all keep track of when we did our last change, the is the biggest fanatic oil site on the net.

and people will do, what people will do regardless of data .

i just want to know if there is any other reason other than " my dady did it this way , and so did my grand papy"....

almost all oils will last to 6,000 miles , yet there is still people on this board who do 3k changes, and analysis....,

and champion labs WANTS you to change that filter every oil change, but we have TONS of proof on this web site alone that the filter can go much , much longer.
when a motorcycle specs to change the filter at 18,000 kms, i think a car can at least to the same .!

 

[Filter guy]

Well I only had a little time to answer your question.

I don't care what brand of filter you use, all filter companies, oil companies, and OEM's will tell you to change your filter when you change your oil.

Now I know they are all in collusion with each other to make you spend $3-20 on a new oil filter when you change your oil.

Ever wonder why a dealer will change the filter rather than leave it on?

But to get serious for a minute, here are the reasons:

You have X amount of dirty oil in your filter that is now contaminating your fresh oil.

Your filter has X amount of contaminant in it and you have no idea how "plugged" your filter is. If you use the OEM filter or it's exact equivalent, it will last as long as the recommended oil change. BUT if your oil doesn't last that long, the oil is breaking down and leaving more contaminants for the filter to retain. Hence your filter plugs quicker when oil breaks down.

As oil breaks down it becomes more acidic. This can effect the antidrain or other rubber components of the filter.

So you risk leaks across the sealing gasket. Or the anti-drain not holding in oil as it should.

You never mentioned if you are doing oil analysis. If you are not your guessing at what condition your oil is as you go the longer drain intervals. There are always caveats to longer drain intervals such as; based on driving habits, weather, age of vehicle, and existing sludge in your oil pan, air filter change history, cooling system maintenance, etc.

But as ever..it's your car do what you want..

 

[merlin64]

"I don't care what brand of filter you use, all filter companies, oil companies, and OEM's will tell you to change your filter when you change your oil."

Actually, Honda specifically recommends changing the filter every OTHER oil change, which could be as much as 20k miles on one filter.

Personally, I don't agree with Honda on this, but there it is.

 

[99]

Considering how little a filter costs, why not change it everytime you change your oil? Are you really going to miss that $3-$5 you're blowing on a filter?

 

[XS650]

By the same logic you could also justify changing it twice for each oil change, or three times. Filters are cheap so lets change them lots of times

If we all just blindly followed manufacturers reccomendations, there would be no reason for this forum to exist.

 

[Master ACiD]

everyone i have ever known has said to change the filter at each oil change. everyone knows that you would have to be crazy to re use an oil filter, right?

please tell me what is so crazy about potentially cutting the ammount of used oil filters in the city dumps in half? if everyone extended their oil filter change intervals out to 20K miles like honda how many filters would that save from the landfill each year?

honda must be pretty slick. a company tells people to actually conserve resources and literally cut their oil filter usage in half, or in the case of a 3K mile user, almost 7 times less and people go out and buy more! sounds like reverse psychology if you ask me, nicholas.

kudos to you for spotting it. lets keep on using our oil filters twice in a row. let the rest of them do what they want. if changing the filter at 3K miles worked good back in the 60's then it must work good now. nevermind advances in technology, right?

 

[Filter guy]

You'll find that filters are recycled. They are taken to smelters and turned into rebar for construction.

The ones that go to a land fill are those filters dumped in their garbage by DYI'ers.

Every State has recycling laws for their used oil filters.
----------------------------

As for Honda..it that across the board or certain engines.

Considering most new vehicle manufacturers know that consumers change their cars every 2-3 years..why should Honda worry about warrantying most of their expensive repairs after that? They don't need to because the warranty isn't transferable ( generally).

So their exposure is very very limited.

Good for the environement or good for their bottom line with repair work down the line?

The question is..would you buy a used Honda where the owner doesn't change the filter between oil changes? And what happens if the owner "forgets" and goes to the 3rd oil change before they change the filter?

I also suggest that you follow up on this great idea by contacting people in foreign countries who import used Honda's from Japan. I have been told by two companies that do that, that in 50% of those cars they have to clean the sludge out of the oil pan and sometimes rebuild the lower end of the engine in 2-3 year old cars that they import. Of course they are right hand drives and you probably won't see them in the US. And these are employee cars who rotate them out.

You can contact DSL group in New Zealand and United Truck Parts in Jamaica to confirm this if you like.

 

[nicholas]

So let's get this straight.

Honda wants their engines and oil filters to fail after the warranty by extending the oil filter recomendation 2 or 3 times. Honda has the alterior motive !

and fram and honeywell, AC delco are just looking out for your best interest. and want your car to run forever.

And most dealers change the filter at the same time to SELL ANOTHER PRODUCT !, and places like jiffy lube use the cheapest filter they can find.

Not to mention almost every major motorcycle company. Almost all spec their filters to be replaced every 4 or 5 oil changes !!!!!!, 15,000miles
with all that acid blow by and clutch partices......, they STILL feel that the filter can and will hold up...., if a filter goes on a bike, im sure someone who had the bike dealer maintained would have some legal action, if their filter blew and they were injured.

for my 03 SV, it says 1.5 years or 18,000kms what ever comes first...., my bike still had the stock oil filter on it, and i cut that thing open , the cellulose paper was still strong to pull apart.
I am not talking about $1-$2 filters, i am talking about $8- $15 OEM filters., my suzuki filter costs, $16.

To me it seems like a bit of a waste, for a mental peace of mind, when there is more than enough proof that the application will last.

you might as well replace your coolant , brake fluid, transmisson oil, and PS fluid every 3 months, because thats CHEAP INSURANCE too !

 

[kanling]

THEORETICALLY, a filter gets better as it gets clogged up... the blockage from trapped particles causes more restriction and then even more particles are trapped. And that continues until the filter gets so clogged that the bypass has to open due to the pressure. Theoretically, that is when to change the filter.

If there was only some way to know when the bypass was about to open due to differential pressure.

I'm not sure if there may be some additional effects where the theory doesn't hold up.

Use an oversize filter and I see no reason not to let it go for longer than one oil change.

(personally, I change the filter at every oil change. I'm getting dirty anyway.)

 

[MN Driver]

quote:

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You'll find that filters are recycled. They are taken to smelters and turned into rebar for construction.

The ones that go to a land fill are those filters dumped in their garbage by DYI'ers.

Every State has recycling laws for their used oil filters.

---

That is false.

This is the quote from my county's recycling website.

quote:

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Disposal
Containers that previously held hazardous material cannot be recycled (motor oil, antifreeze, etc.). Drain all free-flowing oil from the wastes and recycle it. To avoid spontaneous combustion, store oil-filters/rags/sorbents/newspaper/cat litter/sand in a metal-lined container with a tight-fitting cover. Then put the wastes in the trash.

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Landfills in my state, as they probably are everywhere, have a giant rubber liner that prevents any fluid or other material from leeching into groundwater. An oil filter takes up very little space in the trash.

It might sound irresponsible but recycling is overrated. Recycle your oil, batteries, electronics, tires, paint, toxic waste, metals, and hazardous waste, but there isnt much else that gets benefits from recycling.

 

[Oldwolf]

Unless there is a Used Oil Filter Analysis company somewhere, we have no choice but to change the filter "whenever" due to a lack of quantitative data. All of my cars manuals recommend a filter change with an oil change. My Kawasaki KLR manual also recommended a filter change with an oil change.

I am currently running 10,000 mile OCI's on my car with M1EP and one Purolator filter during that period.

I am assuming the filter is continuing to do it's job during it's 10,000 mile operating period although I do not have any hard data to support that assumption.

 

[Filter guy]

MN dirver..don't have time to argue.

Through the Filter Manufacturers Council, of which I was on board for 3 years, there is a toll free number for used filter recycling information. It lists, Federal State, and County regulations. And Canada info, too.

As i mentioned there is a difference between DYI'ers who dump their's in a land fill and Quick lube, Dealers, etc who have mass quantities of filters that end up being recycled.

I also was the FMC rep when the State of Texas had their environmental meeting and were discussing Used Filter disposal.

And i can state categorically that the filters picked up, primarily, by Waste Management from shops are sent to smelters to be smelted down and turned into rebar.

What you do individually in Minnesota is what is allowed by your county. What "shops" do is entirely different.