you might want to rethink what you know about oil

Status
Not open for further replies.
What is the reason anyone should believe anything written in that article?

That guy confuses the American Society for Testing and Materials with the International Lubricants Standardization and Approval Committee. ASTM does not do our oil tests, at least not the tests we frequently hear about. ILSAC sets the standards, along with the American Petroleum Institute (API), the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE), Association des Constructeurs Européens d'Automobiles (ACEA), Japanese Automotive Standards Organization (JASO), and certain engine makers. Included in setting these standards are real tests with real running engines where the wear of specified parts is measured along with the carbon build up and the fuel consumption.

Sheesh. Some people will believe anything as long as the thread has somebody coming to get you.
 
Originally Posted By: mcshooter
Did some of you folks notice how NASCAR race teams changed oil, read the whole article.

So what oil did they switch to? I couldn't find that in his drivel.

Besides, how does NASCAR application relate to my daily driver's engine? How often do they rebuild NASCAR engines?

You can imagine NASCAR has quite different priorities when selecting an engine oil.
 
Many or most NASCAR cars have an oil company sticker somewhere in plain sight. But, do you think the oil in the crankcase is out of the same bottle that's on the shelf?

I want an oil good for 5-10K miles on the highway, not an oil that's good for 500 laps.
 
I started reading that 'article' the last time it was posted here..

... I still haven't finished reading it.
wink.gif
 
I'll take a look when he fills in more values and puts it in table form. I scrolled and scrolled....and scrolled looking for names of oil..finally saw some, many values TBD...and I quit...Talk about long winded...jeesh.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: wemay
...still reading it.

LOL! It's painful.


Stop reading it...you lose IQ points the further you go.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Stop reading it...you lose IQ points the further you go.


Imagine if you were open-minded for just a second and stop insulting people. Now think what tribological issues 540rat addresses, or don't post anything on it.
 
Originally Posted By: boundarylayer
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Stop reading it...you lose IQ points the further you go.


Imagine if you were open-minded for just a second and stop insulting people. Now think what tribological issues 540rat addresses, or don't post anything on it.


Try reading the first half dozen times that this bunk was posted as cutting science, see the discussions that took place...round 12/13/14, and sock puppets still don't use the search function ???
 
Same here, that dork could drive someone crazy.

As Ken2 stated above, this really isn't relative to the street car segment. And the info is seriously biased as well.

Plus it's old news...
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: mcshooter
Re: you might want to rethink what you know about oil

You might want to try the search feature.


LMAO!!!! Epic win sir!
cheers3.gif
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Same here, that dork could drive someone crazy.


You and Shannow with the name calling. You two have cornered the market on wisdom I see. Actually, after reading some of your posts, thats not the case, sadly.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: boundarylayer
Now think what tribological issues 540rat addresses,
Go on, I'm listening...


General principles are best explained by Tribometer Discussion Wikipedia Link.

The difficulty is in taking this tool and applying it to cam lobes, rings, etc. that also experience mixed lubrication. There are some problems in how the tribochemical barrier is set up on the 540rat machine vs. internal engine parts. Still, mixologists need some way to quickly prove an improvement for a specific formula to be tried out and will turn to this.
 
Originally Posted By: boundarylayer
The difficulty is in taking this tool and applying it to cam lobes, rings, etc. that also experience mixed lubrication. There are some problems in how the tribochemical barrier is set up on the 540rat machine vs. internal engine parts. Still, mixologists need some way to quickly prove an improvement for a specific formula to be tried out and will turn to this.


How do you "prove an improvement" with a one armed bandit (style) test, when the "improvement" is irrelevant to nearly every engine on the road ?

as a mixologist ?

As stated in the first couple of times that this "research" was posted, if you are exploring the property claimed to be resisting wear, you have overcooked, overbaked, and overdone your engine.

First premise is that the cams wore out because it overcame the film strength of the oil...given that it's a race engine, and it's pointless to design a race engine to survive 200k miles, it will be built to the required level of endurance...i.e. NOT 200k miles...it's reasonable that the cam is built to the extreme, but it's a cam, and presumably the cam manufacturer has made a number of them that don't fail in that manner.

Say the race engine turns 4M revolutions in a 10 hour racing life...that's 2M valve opening events per lobe (warm-up and yellow flags wear out a different part of the cam)...drag engines can be measured in straight thousands...

...versus a street engine required to turn 500M revolutions, or 250M cam opening events.

The herzian loading of the dirt track engine is probably more than double that of the street engine (think RPM, ramp angles, over the nose spring pressure)

You can't build a street engine with the herzian pressures of a race engine, or the cam/follower will fall to pieces through fatigue at some point. (and you certainly won't build a race engine with street car pressures, or you won't fill the cylinders, won't rev, and will have a face full of dirt)

Take the race cam of hardened steel, versus a street engine of cast iron, sintered metal (or a small engine of plastic)...the allowable stresses for the hardened steel are way more than the other two generally accepted street offerings, and I'd say a little more than the plastic mower cams...the allowable stresses are therefore even lower.

And the stresses are shared between the components via the oilfilm.

The street engine will never see a cam/lifter interface pressure that approaches even the bottom of the list presented in the article.

The article is titled "MOTOR OIL “WEAR PROTECTION” RANKING LIST".

It's not a wear protection ranking list, unless you are running the dirt track engine mentioned in the opener...

In every one of your, mine, most BITOGer's it has absolutely nothing to do with "wear", as you aren't at that contact pressure...ever...how is it measuring an improvement on something that's not even there..."for the mixologist" ?

The Lucas climbing gear thing is measuring an "improvement" in a "property" also...but it doesn't mean squat to your street engine.

And adding the advertised additive, did we mention the additive, because there's a really important additive, does absolutely nothing to reduce "wear" (the title of the article), when nearly every engine, of every reader here will not be testing even the lowest rated oil to the contact pressures that the "wear" is measured at in the test.

It would certainly make Sequence IV a whole lot cheaper to not have to use real engines, and use a variant of the one armed bandit...and somehow the industry have missed that (except for a few boutiques and additive companies)
 
Shell uses a sliding/rolling rig to quick screen (test) oil wear performance. Does 540rat's rig look like it or is his a pin on disk?

See http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...our#Post3449005 and slide to the 6:23 point to see the Shell rig.

Shell's rig uses a spinning disk with a sliding brick on top. If the sliding and rolling ratios and contact pressures are maintained correctly, they get good correlation with a valvetrain wear performance figure in an actual engine.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy


This again.




This junk gets posted at least monthly by some new member who thinks they've found something special,when in reality the only thing special here is how little this stupid test represents a running engine.


Exactly!
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Same here, that dork could drive someone crazy.

As Ken2 stated above, this really isn't relative to the street car segment. And the info is seriously biased as well.

Plus it's old news...


Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?
cheers3.gif
 
Originally Posted By: boundarylayer
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Same here, that dork could drive someone crazy.


You and Shannow with the name calling. You two have cornered the market on wisdom I see. Actually, after reading some of your posts, thats not the case, sadly.



It should be obvious that eloquent insults are MUCH better than name calling.

Imagining you are the smartest person in the room does not make it so.

How is the reincarnation? Sadly, it is equally as boring as before...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top