Italian tune-up and oil temperatures.

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Originally Posted By: JAG
That's more oil temperature sensitivity to rpm than I would have guessed based on previously owning a 2008 BMW 135i that had an oil temp. gauge. It would be very interesting to see what happens with a much thinner oil.


JAG, had a 10W30 semi synth already in the stash, as that's always been my plan past my cleaning experiment. Was using Shell Helix AJ 10W30 before my AutoRX run. The 15W40 (delo gold ultra) during the rinse....back to Caltex (Chevron) C3 5W30 afterwards...not sure how that correlates to running "two grades heavier than specified by the OEM", when it's one grade lower than the cold weather spec in my manual... but haven't seen any change in mileages on either the 30s, or the 40s.

Helix 15W40 with super cleaning agents came on sale for $14/5L, which is what I was running here, (bought 3 of them) at approximately 1,000km OCI (same filter) to see if I can move some varnish...not looking promising.

That's what's in there at the moment, and what I saw the 125C...only identified Friday...will run at least another week testing normal driving/with revs.

Rather than using the 10W30 in the stash (it'll keep), I bought
http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf%5C10774_Magnatec%20Fuel%20Saver%205W-30_467501_2013_04.pdf was $20 off (still $36 for 5L), and appealed to my inquisitiveness...it's still winter, and my commute is soon to change markedly, so it was an opportunity purchase.

In the interests of science, I shook the bottle and a number of others in the shop, as some here recommend, but results are inconclusive at best.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
We must have different understandings of the term you use in the thread title.
To me, an Italian tune-up involves a few WOT runs to redline through the gears, not continuous operation in a low gear.


Me, too. The term comes from the fickle ignition systems of many older imports that would carbon up a plug or two when just burbled around town. You then needed to run the car through the entire rev range at full throttle to 'clear their throat'.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
We must have different understandings of the term you use in the thread title.


I agree sort-of, but it's one of the possibilities that people here are talking regarding valve deposits on DI engines...high revs for periods to burn them off.


Okay, and that apparently does work with some DI engines.
Scary high bulk oil temps, though.
 
Let me guess, Type K thermocouple?
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You know I literally installed a couple of Type Ks into the engine a week ago, in strategic locations, as the engine conversion progresses. Great minds!!

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2 or 3 thermocouples will all feed into a small switch panel (UEi brand TA2K) mounted in the dash, where the clock used to be. The TA2K will measure T1, T2 or T1-T2. The latter will be used to calculate the temp differential between oil and water, respectively. The third TC will be switchable with the oil sensor, to determine the temp diff between water outlet and inlet (cooling efficiency).

So how stoked am I to read your post about 'thermocouples and a multimeter'?
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And to the topic, that's a great observation. Friction is no joke. I wonder if a FM like Ceratec can control the oil-oil friction losses and still allow a decently robust viscosity
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Nice, yep, type K.

Pity we aren't co-inventing the TV, Steam Engine, 4 stroke engine like has happened through history.

I'm pricing a type K probe long enough to substitute as a dipstick at present...I'd be more comfortable leaving that installed than running a floppy lead down there.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Okay, and that apparently does work with some DI engines.
Scary high bulk oil temps, though.


Was hoping to promote discussion, and maybe some others testing it.

Wondering what sort of temperatures those with GDI, and 20s/light 30s would get to if they followed the board recommendation...unintended consequences and the like.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Okay, and that apparently does work with some DI engines.
Scary high bulk oil temps, though.


Was hoping to promote discussion, and maybe some others testing it.

Wondering what sort of temperatures those with GDI, and 20s/light 30s would get to if they followed the board recommendation...unintended consequences and the like.


If I gave the impression that I was trying to damp down discussion, that was not my intent.
It seems that some DI engines can benefit from an extended high rev, high temp run.
What the unintended consequences due to very high bulk oil temps might be IDK.
Maybe this would be something an owner could do right before a drain?
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: stickybuns
As usual Shamwow results to name calling for anyone that disagrees with him. When will he learn to just stick with reasonable logic instead of petty stuff?


But, then again, do sockpuppets have birthdays or anniversaries, or is it sort of a reincarnation thing?


Are you 8 years old? Your obsession with sockpuppets is weird. And Shamwow's use of the childish bickering 'ditto heads', his words, puts him in the same category. Teenage girls are more mature than Shamwow. Oh well, he backs a good shammy:
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Originally Posted By: stickybuns
Are you 8 years old? Your obsession with sockpuppets is weird.

Hmmm, how many sockpuppet years for one human year? In any case, I'm not the one obsessed with sockpuppets. I've had the same user name from the outset. Additionally, Shannow used dittoheads as a generic term. I don't think he called anyone in specific one, and no one should take offence from that, unless they're feeling guilty, of course.
 
Originally Posted By: stickybuns
And Shamwow's use of the childish bickering 'ditto heads', his words, puts him in the same category.


Reading and comprehension not your strongpoint ?

I explained my position...even Captain Obvious would have got it.

First response post in the thread stated that I wouldn't do something because of a perception...a perception fostered by the likes of FarFetched (remember her ???) who would conclude with a statement strawmanning my argument into a support of 60/70 grades...I requested that the poster not form an opinion based on other's statements on my positions...(i.e. the dittoheads).

You've read up on the board pretty well, given your statements of what some of us alwaysa say/do, so you probably remember her. FarFetched was allegedly a aeronautical origamist who was banned not long before you arrived.

You are from a different part of the country, and I wouldn't have been referring to either you, or any other of three new arrivals who have years of research on what some of us say/do...always...would I ???
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
You've read up on the board pretty well, given your statements of what some of us alwaysa say/do, so you probably remember her. FarFetched was allegedly a aeronautical origamist who was banned not long before you arrived.

Does one always put one's socks on in the same order?
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High rpm on light throttles increases piston temps which heats the oil. The leaner an engine runs the hotter it runs due to the cooling effect of the fuel on the pistons. It's this and the resulting cylinder head temps that heats the oil rather than friction between bearings.
 
Not familiar with the motor... but, that seems pretty hot. I'm assuming its a strokey/torquey motor and 4000rpm generates some high piston speeds. Still, my oversquare I4 1.6L 4AGE will hit 330F running at ~6-8krpms without oil cooling, and hits 265/295F cooled/heated *with* oil cooling, during track(racing) conditions. With so so stock cooling, it hit 250F at 4300rpm and 80mph.
 
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Originally Posted By: riggaz
High rpm on light throttles increases piston temps which heats the oil. The leaner an engine runs the hotter it runs due to the cooling effect of the fuel on the pistons. It's this and the resulting cylinder head temps that heats the oil rather than friction between bearings.


Nope...

Running leaner than stoichiometric reduces combustion temperatures...the guys hacking the Delco Computers on these are reporting 18:1 and worse at times...all of which are much cooler than stoichiometric.

It's not friction between bearings, it's the work that the engine is doing to shear the oil that increases temps. Hook an engine up to a motor, and the oil gets hot.
 
Originally Posted By: dustyroads
Originally Posted By: supercity
Interesting. I would not have thought it would make that much difference to the oil temp. I would have throught the oil would adsorb more heat from combustion (high load) and not that much from friction. 4000rpm is a fair thrashing for that motor though.





My thoughts as well but then I remember as a kid bending a paperclip back and forth to break it in two. Going slow was no problem but bending quickly (furiously I suppose) it burned my fingers and I dropped it.

I'm still amazed by the temps you saw at higher rpm's as I've never looked into this subject before. With my volvo truck I see oil temps of 245-250°f (116-120°c) while pulling long mountain grades in the desert southwest of the U.S. but at 1100-1300 rpm.

Granted, I have a big oil cooler but still amazed a car running 4k rpm sees higher oil temp than my truck moving 80k pounds up a desert mountain. Very interesting info.


Your situation with the big diesel truck is different, though. Heavy duty diesels have piston cooling nozzles, so a lot of combustion chamber heat gets transferred to the oil. The oil heating that Shannow is getting is due to churning in the crankcase, even though his engine is only putting out ~25HP to push his car at 100kph.
 
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Maybe it's an engine specific thing with regards to running lean as a race engine builder that I was speaking to has had a few engines failures due to insufficient fuel supply, this obviously is not the case with your engine.

After re-reading your original post it just sounds like the engine is operating normally. You kept it at high rpm for a reasonable length of time and the oil heated up when you put it into Drive and did the same speed at a lower rpm it ran cooler, sounds fine to me.
 
Yep, I believe that my engine is doing exactly what it should be doing, was surprised at the number I saw after simple operation at revs, with little load.

95-100C seems to be normal,in "D" at freezing temps after 25km or thereabouts.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
We must have different understandings of the term you use in the thread title.
To me, an Italian tune-up involves a few WOT runs to redline through the gears, not continuous operation in a low gear.

Nah. IMO, It is continuous operation in a lower gear to increase load. Wouldn't more heat be generated this way than by a few WOT runs? There are some great pics on-line somewhere where someone cleaned intake valve deposits in a VW by high rpm driving for a prolonged period with before and after pics.

Wikipedia says:

An Italian tuneup usually refers to a process whereby a motor vehicle engine is run at full load for extended periods in order to burn carbon buildup from the combustion chambers, spark plugs, and exhaust system. ...

The origin of the Italian tuneup comes from Ferrari. Owners would drive their cars infrequently and never run them hard, which causes the engine to build up enough carbon inside to affect performance. Mechanics would perform a "tuneup" by driving several laps around a race track to get the engine hot enough to burn out the built up carbon. ... Driving for 12 km (20 miles is typical).

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-Dennis
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow


In the interests of science, I shook the bottle and a number of others in the shop, as some here recommend, but results are inconclusive at best.


LOL!
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