Any notable 2008 Suzuki XL7 issues ?

[wsar10]

Considering an 08 XL7 luxury edition,
3.6l V6
5spd auto
77k mi
a bit below $10K

Oil thoughts ?
reliability thoughts ?
maintenance thoughts ?

I have been looking around the web and no mentions of major issues other than timing chain issues......
Most people seem to be satisfied overall with there XL7, although unfortunately most reviews come from 0-50K and they really mean nothing in terms of reliability.....

 

[gregk24]

The engines like to sludge up

 

[Rand]

low gas mileage, low availability of some parts.

 

[wsar10]

"sludge up" in what context ?
Like run a full syn and be ok.....
Or a major sludge issue ??

How can I look for sludge on a dealers lot... ?

 

[Barkleymut]

open the oil cap and use a flashlight and look down the fill hole. what does it look like? pull the dipstick and see if there is any grit or slime on it. Those are the first steps

 

[wsar10]

I figured that "look down the fill hole".....issue is allot of new vehicles have a 45-90 degree bend in the fill tube.

I have since found out that the timing chain and tensioners were just replaced.

 

[wsar10]

Well...we test drove it, ran great. Upon pulling the dipstick I found the oil to feel like grease.....looking in the fill spout all you could Se were chunks of sludge and junk.....how frustrating....

 

[cptbarkey]

there is nothing compelling about it, you can find better at the same price point.

 

[wsar10]

I guess we are back to looking at explorer's......going to look at an 06 with the 4.0

These XL7's are hard to find around here, when you do they are usually 2 grand more and did not have the timing chains done.

 

[ElastoHydro]

I don't think there are any big issues with Suzuki XL7s of that model type. Check Consumer Reports reliability breakdowns by component group, instead of some statement thrown out on the internet like "they sludge".

 

[wsar10]

Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
I don't think there are any big issues with Suzuki XL7s of that model type. Check Consumer Reports reliability breakdowns by component group, instead of some statement thrown out on the internet like "they sludge".


the crowd here is more reliable and informative from a mechanical and reliability standpoint than ANY consumer report..........
I have looked in all the obvious places but the issue with most reviews is they take place place within the first few thousand miles on any vehicle, Frankly those reviews don't mean much.

I learned about the timing chain issues on a Suzuki forum and learned about the sludge issue here...And they were both dead on ! The dealership where we test drove this XL7 has replaced the timing chains in %25 of there used inventory and its pretty well known that allot of premature timing chain guide failures are traced back to sludge issues or maybe wrong weight being used, IMO its because people are stupid and depend on "pre-programed" sensor to tell them when to change there oil vs. lab results.

all that being there were no real issues with the XL7's they are a pretty decent and reliable vehicle, really you should replaced ANY timing chain around 100k and if you take care of it there will be no sludge.

 

[wag123]

You are not supposed to have to replace timing chains unless they fail, this is not a scheduled maintenance procedure.
In 2008 the XL7 was basically a GM product and comes from the same GM family as the Chevy Traverse, Buick Enclave, Saturn Outlook, and GMC Acadia (but has a slightly shorter wheel base than these others). Most of the mechanical and electrical pieces are interchangeable with these other GM products, and it shares most of the same problems that they have. Besides the 3.6L engine issues that you already know about, all of these vehicles have had major problems with the steering racks and power steering pumps, among other things.
Even though Suzuki is now defunct as a car manufacturer, you shouldn't have any problem getting mechanical and most electrical parts for an XL7 because of it's GM underpinnings, but body and trim pieces will be impossible to find in a couple of years which means that it will be doomed if you get in an accident (even a minor one) with it. Also, there won't/can't be any recalls to correct safety issues.

 

[wsar10]

Originally Posted By: wag123
You are not supposed to have to replace timing chains unless they fail, this is not a scheduled maintenance procedure.
In 2008 the XL7 was basically a GM product and comes from the same GM family as the Chevy Traverse, Buick Enclave, Saturn Outlook, and GMC Acadia (but has a slightly shorter wheel base than these others). Most of the mechanical and electrical pieces are interchangeable with these other GM products, and it shares most of the same problems that they have. Besides the 3.6L engine issues that you already know about, all of these vehicles have had major problems with the steering racks and power steering pumps, among other things.
Even though Suzuki is now defunct as a car manufacturer, you shouldn't have any problem getting mechanical and most electrical parts for an XL7 because of it's GM underpinnings, but body and trim pieces will be impossible to find in a couple of years which means that it will be doomed if you get in an accident (even a minor one) with it. Also, there won't/can't be any recalls to correct safety issues.


A timing chain or belt IS a maintenance thing @100k mi, The life expectancy to remain within spec on a timing chain is roughly 90k mi. If you own a 100k mi vehicle and have the timing chain or belts done you will notice a world of difference in power, spec within emissions equipment and even better fuel economy.

Either way we passed on Suzuki's and got an 06 explorer pending a TC leak repair.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted By: wsar10
A timing chain or belt IS a maintenance thing @100k mi, The life expectancy to remain within spec on a timing chain is roughly 90k mi. If you own a 100k mi vehicle and have the timing chain or belts done you will notice a world of difference in power, spec within emissions equipment and even better fuel economy.

You are wrong. A timing chain and a timing belt are two completely different things that accomplish the same task.
A timing CHAIN is an internally lubricated engine part that does not NORMALLY need to be replaced for the life of a vehicle, unless there is a problem with it or it breaks, and it's replacement is not included in the maintenance schedule specified by the manufacturer. Can a timing chain break? Yes! But, because it is supposed to last the lifetime of the vehicle and it is not supposed to break, IF it breaks within the 100k mile GM powertrain warranty, replacement would be covered by the manufacturer's warranty.
A timing BELT is not an internally lubricated engine part, it is a normal wear item that NEEDS to be replaced as part of regular maintenance at intervals specified by the manufacturer.
Good luck with the Explorer. DON'T change the timing chain at 100k miles! This would be a MAJOR expense for no good reason.

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
I don't think there are any big issues with Suzuki XL7s of that model type. Check Consumer Reports reliability breakdowns by component group, instead of some statement thrown out on the internet like "they sludge".


I would take Consumer Reports data with a grain of salt. Most of their data comes from subscribed members who fill out vehicle survey data for their vehicles. If the sample pool is very small, defect rates can skew considerably.

 

[wsar10]

Originally Posted By: wag123
Originally Posted By: wsar10
A timing chain or belt IS a maintenance thing @100k mi, The life expectancy to remain within spec on a timing chain is roughly 90k mi. If you own a 100k mi vehicle and have the timing chain or belts done you will notice a world of difference in power, spec within emissions equipment and even better fuel economy.

You are wrong. A timing chain and a timing belt are two completely different things that accomplish the same task.
A timing CHAIN is an internally lubricated engine part that does not NORMALLY need to be replaced for the life of a vehicle, unless there is a problem with it or it breaks, and it's replacement is not included in the maintenance schedule specified by the manufacturer. Can a timing chain break? Yes! But, because it is supposed to last the lifetime of the vehicle and it is not supposed to break, IF it breaks within the 100k mile GM powertrain warranty, replacement would be covered by the manufacturer's warranty.
A timing BELT is not an internally lubricated engine part, it is a normal wear item that NEEDS to be replaced as part of regular maintenance at intervals specified by the manufacturer.
Good luck with the Explorer. DON'T change the timing chain at 100k miles! This would be a MAJOR expense for no good reason.


No your very incorrect here, a chain just like ANY mechanical part will wear PERIOD. I work with a mechanical engineer on my team at work, we have this conversation all the time.....I agree that a belt should need maintenance before a chain. Contact ANYBODY with an engineering background or a professional engine builder and they will tell you the same. To make that decision based on what a manufacture says is "maintenance" is foolish ! Thats half the purpose of this forum, dismissing the "maintenance schedule" and educating yourself through science about your REAL maintenance needs of a vehicle.

 

[IndyIan]

No disagreement that a timing chain is a wear item, but I'd hope they are designed to about the same life expectancy as the rest of the engine.
I certainly don't plan to replace the timing chains on my vehicles unless there is a compelling reason. The Tracker is about 2-3 years from being taken off the road, so it might not hit 200k miles, but I suspect it will still have the original timing chain at that point.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: wsar10
No your very incorrect here, a chain just like ANY mechanical part will wear PERIOD. I work with a mechanical engineer on my team at work, we have this conversation all the time.....I agree that a belt should need maintenance before a chain. Contact ANYBODY with an engineering background or a professional engine builder and they will tell you the same. To make that decision based on what a manufacture says is "maintenance" is foolish ! Thats half the purpose of this forum, dismissing the "maintenance schedule" and educating yourself through science about your REAL maintenance needs of a vehicle.


Since you already know that every moving part will be subject to wear during engine operation. Why are you suggesting to change only the timing chain at 100k miles? What about cam shafts, valves, pistons, main bearings? They all wear and you can be sure that they will not be exactly the same as brand new.
What you're not getting from your engineer friend is that all mating parts are made to specific clearances and unless those clearances go beyond the maximum specifications, the engine will not be considered worn out by any mechanic or engineer. Same thing applies to the timing chain.
The "foolish" part is squarely on you

 

[wsar10]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: wsar10
No your very incorrect here, a chain just like ANY mechanical part will wear PERIOD. I work with a mechanical engineer on my team at work, we have this conversation all the time.....I agree that a belt should need maintenance before a chain. Contact ANYBODY with an engineering background or a professional engine builder and they will tell you the same. To make that decision based on what a manufacture says is "maintenance" is foolish ! Thats half the purpose of this forum, dismissing the "maintenance schedule" and educating yourself through science about your REAL maintenance needs of a vehicle.


Since you already know that every moving part will be subject to wear during engine operation. Why are you suggesting to change only the timing chain at 100k miles? What about cam shafts, valves, pistons, main bearings? They all wear and you can be sure that they will not be exactly the same as brand new.
What you're not getting from your engineer friend is that all mating parts are made to specific clearances and unless those clearances go beyond the maximum specifications, the engine will not be considered worn out by any mechanic or engineer. Same thing applies to the timing chain.
The "foolish" part is squarely on you

Your creating your own context just to pursue or create an argument. Do you UNDERSTAND the importance of timing in an engine ? Do you understand how a non-linear part can wear and effect timing, emissions, combustion and overall performance ? bearing wear does not effect valve timing......Do you really not understand the difference between a chain and something that a solid peace of machined metal ??

Nobody said anything about an engine being "worn out".

I surely hope you have it done in that Mazda before it causes a REAL problem.....it should also be done 100k ish. Maybe you'll get lucky and it lasts but I would not count on it.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: wsar10


Your creating your own context just to pursue or create an argument. Do you UNDERSTAND the importance of timing in an engine ? Do you understand how a non-linear part can wear and effect timing, emissions, combustion and overall performance ? bearing wear does not effect valve timing......Do you really not understand the difference between a chain and something that a solid peace of machined metal ??

Nobody said anything about an engine being "worn out".

I surely hope you have it done in that Mazda before it causes a REAL problem.....it should also be done 100k ish. Maybe you'll get lucky and it lasts but I would not count on it.


Having pulled a few old pushrod timing chains with >100K miles on them it is very apparent to me that one cannot just make an absolute statement like they are designed to last 100K miles. The timing chain out of my Town Car, with about twice that on it, while slightly stretched, was not worn enough to cause a discernible change in valvetrain timing. It was a double-roller chain.

Now, the single row chains are known to stretch more. And then there is the material the gears are made of. Are they steel, iron or nylon? This will have an affect on it too. The nylon gears have been known to come apart, then the timing chain becomes a replacement item. However, a double-row chain in an SBF or SBC tended to last the life of the engine.

Modern engines, most of which are overhead cam, have tensioners to keep the chain tight. On top of that, most engines produced in the last 10 years also have variable camshaft timing. This means that base camshaft timing isn't a point strictly dictated by the chain, as the phaser/sensor assembly reads the actual position of the camshaft relative to the crankshaft. So zero or "base" of retard or advance would be relative to what is read by the sensors, which directly relates to the ACTUAL position of the camshaft and crankshaft. This means that these systems basically "self adjust" for stretch/wear.

On top of that is the fact that there are numerous examples of engines with huge timing chains (Ford Modular for example) that have never had their chains touched and are arguably the longest lasting gasoline engines in existence. It is not uncommon to see Limo's for sale up here with over 700,000Km on the original engine, still running like a top.

Lightweight valvetrain components coupled with the auto tensioning system means that the stress on the timing gear is reduced over the pushrod days where, while the chain was significantly shorter, the spring pressure had to be high enough to control the mass of the rockers, rods and lifters.

Also, in that vein, advancing or retarding a camshaft a few degrees isn't new. When Ford introduced the 351M the camshaft that was fitted to it was advanced a few degrees for emissions purposes. It wasn't uncommon for a hotrodder to retard a camshaft a few degrees to change the power curve to an RPM point that was more in-line with some induction modifications done to the engine. Modern VCT systems like BMW's VANOS advance and retard the camshafts to move the power curve around. Advanced at low RPM and progressively retarded as RPM's increase. One of the tell tale signs of a faulty VANOS sensor is that the car loses bottom end power and then comes on hard at north of 3K, and this is because the camshaft isn't being advanced to bolster low (engine) speed power anymore. When the system is "out of synch" the camshaft defaults to the fully retarded position IIRC, which yields this effect.