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#3438188 - 07/28/14 08:23 AM Re: Husqvarna saw doesnt like storage [Re: andyd]
SHOZ Offline


Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 1784
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: andyd
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Make your own E0 out of E10 by doping it with water. The alcohol and water will mix and separate to the bottom. Then siphon off the pure gas.
How well does this work? I've dealt with phase separation once and I did re-use the E0.If it relly worked well, you would end up wit real gas and a blast of moonshine. grin2


You will have a bit of waste unless you are anal about getting the last drop of gasoline from the separated mix. Try it with a quart or so in a glass jar; slowly add the water and you can see how it works. Don't think I would be drinking the alky and water mix though.....

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#3439992 - 07/29/14 08:28 PM Re: Husqvarna saw doesnt like storage [Re: buck91]
Alltherage Offline


Registered: 06/28/14
Posts: 94
Loc: Ny
Had my husky overhauled last year. Took it out of storage this year and it idled fine but wouldn't wind up. Cursed the ethanol but ended up changing the plug and wallah. Think I put fuel treatment in it before storage though

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#3440308 - 07/30/14 07:52 AM Re: Husqvarna saw doesnt like storage [Re: buck91]
SHOZ Offline


Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 1784
Loc: Illinois
With my 2 cyl gas I add Stabil to it when I mix it. Usually only mix up about a 1.2 gallon a year. There is also a Marine grade Stabil and an Ethanol gas Stabil.




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#3442954 - 08/01/14 02:52 PM Re: Husqvarna saw doesnt like storage [Re: buck91]
lars11 Offline


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 723
Loc: Sweden
I have a 254 from like 1989. Runs great always. But, older saws need new diaphragms like every 6-8 yrs and a clean carb.
If you use it infrequently you should know that:
1. ALL gas station gas with or without ethanol is quite unstable and octane ratings allow for veeery varying properties. It works in autos because the ECM adjusts in real time. Your carbed saw does NOT. Shelf life a few months, and different batches may require you to adjust carb. You seem to know...
2. Ethanol gas is prone to absorb water. That will make your old fuel not only broken down (see above), but also loaded with some minor amounts of H2O which makes it not so god for the little carb. Otherwise, fresh E5 and E10 will do just fine, it's not poison.
People mix up that cracked gas (most gas today) has short life, and now with ethanol, old fuel is a bit worse. Fresh etahanol in fresh station gas can not be a noticable problem. But dirty ethanol and old gas os both bad, people blame ethanol solely.

So, just use alkylate gas like Truefuel, stihl motomix etc etc. This will not age noticeably, it will not require different snake oils or stabilizers, and it will stay in grade/octane, meaning you will not have to adjust the carb all the time!

Alkylate is the keyword to look for, not Truefuel. That's a brand, an expensive one.

If you don't find alkylate, use Stabil et al. But you will then sitll adjust per batch if unlucky.






Edited by lars11 (08/01/14 02:58 PM)

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#3443223 - 08/01/14 07:35 PM Re: Husqvarna saw doesnt like storage [Re: buck91]
buck91 Offline


Registered: 04/17/12
Posts: 554
Loc: West Michigan
Interesting, never heard of alkylate gas before lars11. I will try this out.
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#3443715 - 08/02/14 09:59 AM Re: Husqvarna saw doesnt like storage [Re: SHOZ]
bubbatime Offline


Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 1296
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Make your own E0 out of E10 by doping it with water. The alcohol and water will mix and separate to the bottom. Then siphon off the pure gas.


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#3443871 - 08/02/14 01:19 PM Re: Husqvarna saw doesnt like storage [Re: bubbatime]
SHOZ Offline


Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 1784
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Make your own E0 out of E10 by doping it with water. The alcohol and water will mix and separate to the bottom. Then siphon off the pure gas.



Try it, you might like it.

I'm going to take 500ml of E10 gas, add 500 ml of water then see how they separate. If it is E10 I should end up with somewhere around 600 ml of water/ethanol and 400 ml of gas.

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#3444072 - 08/02/14 07:04 PM Re: Husqvarna saw doesnt like storage [Re: SHOZ]
bubbatime Offline


Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 1296
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Try it, you might like it.

I'm going to take 500ml of E10 gas, add 500 ml of water then see how they separate. If it is E10 I should end up with somewhere around 600 ml of water/ethanol and 400 ml of gas.


You know that really dumb kid in the neighborhood that screws everything up? The kid that runs SAE60 "racing" oil in his Honda because thicker is better? The kid that cuts his catalytic converter off and adds a [censored] can, because its cool? The kid that puts a 4 foot tall spoiler on the back of his car? That's the kid that adds water to his fuel and shakes it up to "remove the ethanol". Just saying.
_________________________
2010 Acura TSX 2.4L Havoline Syn 5W20
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2006 GMC Sierra 4.8L Quaker State GB 5W30

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#3444082 - 08/02/14 07:14 PM Re: Husqvarna saw doesnt like storage [Re: buck91]
SHOZ Offline


Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 1784
Loc: Illinois
Betcha a quart of stabil it works.......

Though the outcome should be 450ml gas 550ml water.

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#3444326 - 08/02/14 11:30 PM Re: Husqvarna saw doesnt like storage [Re: SHOZ]
HardbodyLoyalist Offline


Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 697
Loc: Lower Alabama
Gasoline contains alkylamine and alkyl phosphate detergents. As a chemist, I can tell you that those detergents are going to emulsify some of the water by forming reverse micelles. Essentially, some of the water is going to "dissolve" into the gasoline and probably nothing short of distillation would remove it.

For further reading: http://www.whatischemistry.unina.it/en/micella.html
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#3444529 - 08/03/14 08:53 AM Re: Husqvarna saw doesnt like storage [Re: HardbodyLoyalist]
SHOZ Offline


Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 1784
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: HardbodyLoyalist
Gasoline contains alkylamine and alkyl phosphate detergents. As a chemist, I can tell you that those detergents are going to emulsify some of the water by forming reverse micelles. Essentially, some of the water is going to "dissolve" into the gasoline and probably nothing short of distillation would remove it.

For further reading: http://www.whatischemistry.unina.it/en/micella.html



More than likely that has already happened though wouldn't you think? I would think that the ethanol is not 100% and contains some water. Or has picked up a miniscule amount of water from the tanks.

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#3444609 - 08/03/14 10:24 AM Re: Husqvarna saw doesnt like storage [Re: SHOZ]
HardbodyLoyalist Offline


Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 697
Loc: Lower Alabama
Ethanol picks up 5% water unless it has been azeotroped. So you would be looking at 5% of 10%, or 0.5% overall. By directly exposing the gasoline to water, you would increase the overall water content by several times that amount.
_________________________
1994 Nissan Hardbody -- Mobil 1 HM 5W30
1998 Ford F150 4WD -- Mobil 1 HM 5W30
2009 VW Jetta TDI -- Pentosin SuperPerformance III 5W30

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#3444703 - 08/03/14 12:49 PM Re: Husqvarna saw doesnt like storage [Re: buck91]
SHOZ Offline


Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 1784
Loc: Illinois
Ok here's what I did. I have a 1000mL graduated cylinder that is marked every 10mL I have a gram scale and hydrometers, one .700 to .800 and another .900 to 1.000 both are 60/60 temperature rated. My thermometer is one degree graduations.

I used demineralized water at 68F and measured 1.000. Temperature correction is +.007 so I'll forgo them for this experiment.

E10 Gasoline SG was 0.730 at 68F, 500mL of it weighed 362
grams.

Water was 68F and 500 mL weighs 500 grams.

So after pouring in 500 mL of E10 and adding 500 mL of H2O I ended up with around the 550 H2O and 450 gas.

This kind of hard to see but if you look to the left side of the cylinder at the 550 mark you can see the line.



Here's another shot, the angle isn't the same and it's a different camera.


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#3444717 - 08/03/14 01:07 PM Re: Husqvarna saw doesnt like storage [Re: buck91]
jhellwig Offline


Registered: 07/01/13
Posts: 381
Loc: Ottumwa, Iowa
Congratulations you just lowered the octane of the gas.

How long did it take to separate?


Edited by jhellwig (08/03/14 01:07 PM)
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#3444722 - 08/03/14 01:13 PM Re: Husqvarna saw doesnt like storage [Re: buck91]
SHOZ Offline


Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 1784
Loc: Illinois
So start with a higher octane?

The separation was immediate.

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