Why Don't people enjoy driving a manual trans??

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Oddly enough, my Mom's '08 Mercedes C300 Luxury seems to have a mode that's at least vaguely like what you described. It's not nearly as good as that, but it's way better than normal everyday programming.

Which trans does it have? Is it the 7-speed? My wife's C300 has it, and I'm not impressed with it. The (C)omfort mode is gutless, and the (S)port mode is almost as gutless. It upshifts too early and generally takes its sweet time to downshift when you ask it to.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
The moment you brake aggressively or corner hard enough my car automatically enables a 'track' mode that downshifts as you approach a corner, holds the gear (no matter what you do) in the corner, and shifts at redline. Even after you slow down and smooth out it can take as long as 15 seconds to fall back into normal mode.

It's really a cool thing to feel the car wake up and respond, and it really does work well at the track if you know how to drive smoothly.

This car was built in 05, I am certain modern cars are MUCH better now...

I drove a Ferrari F430 Spyder F1 at one of those "drive a supercar" thingies. Wasn't allowed to take it out of automatic mode. It was definitely the least intolerable automatic transmission I've ever driven. It held gears and downshifted almost exactly as I would have liked.

Oddly enough, my Mom's '08 Mercedes C300 Luxury seems to have a mode that's at least vaguely like what you described. It's not nearly as good as that, but it's way better than normal everyday programming.

So, where does this leave the comparison with a 3-pedal manual? As I see it, there are two main reasons for wanting a manual transmission:

1. More involvement
2. A 1:1 relationship between your control inputs and the car's responses

Modern TCU programming certainly goes a long way toward closing the gap on point 2. It's possible (albeit still fairly rare) to have an automatic that operates fairly transparently.

We're still stuck with point 1, though. There's no way around the fact that, with an automatic, you just aren't doing as much or getting as much out of your drive.


I must agree, even though we only have one car in a rather large stable with a stick these days. My point was to illustrate that modern cars can have a nice experience even with an automatically shifted gearbox.

But sometimes, a luxury car with a bipolar personality can be fun...

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Oddly enough, my Mom's '08 Mercedes C300 Luxury seems to have a mode that's at least vaguely like what you described. It's not nearly as good as that, but it's way better than normal everyday programming.

Which trans does it have? Is it the 7-speed? My wife's C300 has it, and I'm not impressed with it. The (C)omfort mode is gutless, and the (S)port mode is almost as gutless. It upshifts too early and generally takes its sweet time to downshift when you ask it to.

Same trans. Have you ever tried driving it really hard on curvy roads?

I feel like it's great below 3/10ths and tolerable above 8/10ths. It's that whole range in the middle where it feels awkward.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Good point. Maybe I'm just not driving it hard enough.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I feel like it's great below 3/10ths and tolerable above 8/10ths. It's that whole range in the middle where it feels awkward.


That's a great way to describe the rental 300 I had with the 8-speed. It would loaf around all day like a champ. Up-shifting at 2,000 rpm or less, idling around, quiet and serene. Or if you drove the snot out of it, that worked, too. It'd up-shift at redline each time and the Pentastar loved to rev.

But anywhere between that, it was pure clumsy. If you gave it half throttle, you could tell that it wanted to up-shift at 2,000 rpm, but it'd wait until something like 2,200 rpm to shift, and you felt like you could never get any "momentum" going in the engine...like the transmission had it strapped down too far. Go to 3/4 throttle and it'd wait until 4,000 rpm to up-shift, even though you weren't accelerating much faster than you were at 1/2 throttle. The gas pedal in that car was like an on/off switch. There was no middle ground.

I wouldn't mind more gears, but if and only if:

a) they give you some flexibility in the programming to allow for a wider range of driving conditions, instead of just two modes: "EPA special" and "Mario Andretti".

-or-

b) they give you some paddle shifters or a +/- slap shifter that gives you better control over what it's doing. My $17,000 base model Camry had a +/- slap shifter; I was disappointed that the 300 didn't have one.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: surfstar
I enjoy driving my Civic b/c I am mechanically connected to the gearbox and throttle. My Vue is also a stick shift, but it uses cables that are horrible for shift feel and DBW which disconnects you from the throttle. NOT enjoyable to "drive".

I believe I could opt for an auto in a newer vehicle. The Mazda 6spds sound very well put together and even eek out a MPG advantage. If the reliability is there, I'm sold.


Do not believe the EPA sticker on Mazda. The MTX is more efficient than the ATX. Mazda fudged the numbers to sell more ATX and get bigger profits.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: badtlc


Do not believe the EPA sticker on Mazda. The MTX is more efficient than the ATX. Mazda fudged the numbers to sell more ATX and get bigger profits.


It wouldn't surprise me if this wasn't true on many vehicles today.
The car makers want consumers to fork out that money for that slush box because there is more profit in them and always has been.

Like I mentioned before, the marketing hacks have sold the consumers on this option because it makes the companies more mark up ability versus the manual box.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
The moment you brake aggressively or corner hard enough my car automatically enables a 'track' mode that downshifts as you approach a corner, holds the gear (no matter what you do) in the corner, and shifts at redline. Even after you slow down and smooth out it can take as long as 15 seconds to fall back into normal mode.

It's really a cool thing to feel the car wake up and respond, and it really does work well at the track if you know how to drive smoothly.

This car was built in 05, I am certain modern cars are MUCH better now...

I drove a Ferrari F430 Spyder F1 at one of those "drive a supercar" thingies. Wasn't allowed to take it out of automatic mode. It was definitely the least intolerable automatic transmission I've ever driven. It held gears and downshifted almost exactly as I would have liked.

Oddly enough, my Mom's '08 Mercedes C300 Luxury seems to have a mode that's at least vaguely like what you described. It's not nearly as good as that, but it's way better than normal everyday programming.

So, where does this leave the comparison with a 3-pedal manual? As I see it, there are two main reasons for wanting a manual transmission:

1. More involvement
2. A 1:1 relationship between your control inputs and the car's responses

Modern TCU programming certainly goes a long way toward closing the gap on point 2. It's possible (albeit still fairly rare) to have an automatic that operates fairly transparently.

We're still stuck with point 1, though. There's no way around the fact that, with an automatic, you just aren't doing as much or getting as much out of your drive.


Well said.

Sport mode in the 3 works very well for an AT.

In traffic, I'm often glad I have a manual. If I'm cruising in traffic at say 25 mph and need to make a very quick lane change, I keep the engine in a higher rpm band to make a quick move. With a MT you're the torque converter. AT's have to often hunt or there is a delay. That is one area I think manuals are superior.

I'm interested in CVT's though because I think they have a lot of potential. I want to drive the WRX with the CVT and use the paddle shifters in sport mode. I've read a lot of positive reviews.

A well programmed AT/CVT with the paddle shift/sport mode option may be the ultimate overall. You won't have the exact type of engagement, but it won't be as boring as a regular AT. It will also more than likely offer superior performance.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: buster
Another thing is the performance gap has changed. AT's often get better mpg than MT now.

We just picked up a 2014 3 S GT. In sport mode it's really good. My wife is the primary driver. If i was driving it often, I would have definitely chose the manual.


It would typically be due to the auto having a lower top gear ratio. I remember seeing the specs for the new BRZ/FR-S. The auto literally had about a 31% lower 6th (top) gear ratio. The highway fuel economy was marginally higher with the auto.

http://www.subaru-global.com/13brz_spec.html

Also - a lot of automatics are designed to shift gently in normal operation. These tend to do well in fuel economy tests with prescribed driving patterns. Drivers who want more excitement will find that it won't come anywhere close.

 

[j4life]

my ex gave me my first and only lesson on driving a manual it was fun but she needed a different car for work and ended up trading it in for an f150

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I enjoy driving manual.

Only time I really don't like it is when I'm in a traffic jam (my Focus transmission NEEDS a granny gear - at idle, it moves too fast) or when I'm off roading.

I have been behind a lot of manuals on the trails and smelled clutch all day. My Toyota automatic makes a lot of heat and isn't that efficient, but I trust it and won't roast a clutch!

 

[telecat]

Originally Posted By: Vibe_2007
The reason is simple as to why I do not own a car with a manual. My wife will not let us buy one because she doesn't want to learn to drive one.
Say WHAT?

When I bought my truck, one of the reasons I bought it was because it had a 5-speed stick. My wife had nothing to say about it as *I* was paying for it.

When she bought her 2012 Fusion, she got an automatic. I hate it when I drive it (about every three to six months, after I change the oil) but I didn't have to pay for it so I don't care. She still can't drive a stick and exhibits no desire to learn as she doesn't like my truck, anyway.

So either there's some whippage going on, or you only own one vehicle. If you only own one, I can understand but if you own TWO? No excuse, man.

 

[99Saturn]

^

Not everyone looks at it as my car and my wife's (or husband's) car, whether they own 1, 2 or more.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: css9450
It doesn't hinder the guy some pages back who says that he can still eat and use the phone on his manual-tranny car - because he steers with his knee!


That was me. And while it's not the safest thing by a long shot, on a straight, empty or near empty road it works fine. Or even in traffic where you just need to keep straight. Didn't do it often but when I needed to I did.

People have been distracted since, well there have been people. Passengers distract drivers, the scenery distracts drivers, radios distracted drivers, etc. Cell Phones are just the latest item to blame.

 

[PF52]

Originally Posted By: itguy08

People have been distracted since, well there have been people. Passengers distract drivers, the scenery distracts drivers, radios distracted drivers, etc. Cell Phones are just the latest item to blame.


Exactly. A distracted driver is a distracted driver. Transmission type is irrelevant. A point lost on the OP.

 

[Smoky14]

It's not the stick, they don't drive period..just herd their car from point to point.

Smoky

 

[splinter]

My antiquated manual gearbox is really fun to row through its paces...on the weekends.

Reprogrammed 6L80E is far better suited for our workaday commute needs though.

 

[MDettling]

I learned stick shift all by myself at 16. Traded in my auto 77 LeBaron coupe for an 81 Datsun 310GX at a carlot. Had factory sunroof and A/C

Salesman said it had a burnt fusible link for the charging system (which i later repaired myself) and not to stall it. I did great all the way home, averaging 30-35 mph by myself. Pull over, idle a min, get back to 55 then slowly choked down to 35.

Even braved the freeway emergency lane at 35 or so, hazards blinking 20 miles to a friends shop. Friend's dad found the clogged fuel filter. After that, I was always flooring it, enjoying stick shifting. Years of riding old enduro bikes, you'd have to know how to work a manual car.

Sadly, some old lady pulled in front of me on the highway, the Datsun was totalled, her malibu wagon did a 180 from the 55mph impact. Haggled w/ her insurance, got a manual Geo Metro rental, and then $1200 and bought another 310 minus A/C and sunroof, plus headgasket was weeping coolant externally.

I own an 89 Lincoln towncar, just get in and go. Its like riding a couch, and the 'disconnected' feeling. I'd buy a manual Datsun in a heartbeat. They just love to be thrashed around.

Had an 83 nissan sentra wagon which i blew up 2 5 spd trannys in. Sold it to some kid who paid $400 w/o test driving it, I went out and got an 81 toyota corolla deluxe 2dr with auto and A/C. By far the rustiest and most reliable car of the 32 vehicles I went through

I even did a few street races with the Corolla with Civics, and it was always a tie,manually shifting at redline or beyond, even with the A/C on, pushing the button off is like a lil sip of nitro..

Got rid of it at 210k miles, tranny still shifted firmly, even better manually. When you shifted it into reverse, it was engaged before you even take your hand off the shifter.

What I never figured out was cyl #4 had 350psi while the rest had 150-165 psi. Good ol 3TC never missed a beat.

 

[MDettling]

I had one [censored] of a fun ride, a 68 VW bus w/ the hightop. I'd own another aircooled VW and make it a sunday driver. Maintenance, and the mandatory oil leaks and of course barely any heat at all.

oh and did I mention it would hit 85mph in about... 5 minutes? (Had a brand new 1600 longblock installed. I bought it knowing it had a bad TO bearing, but it never bothered me. I kept my foot off the clutch pedal as much as possible.

Again, I sold it to another kid on a dark rainy night,for $1500 didnt even test drive it.

Then off I went to buy another 5 speed car.. 86 Nissan Maxima SE. Boy, that thing got me in trouble with all the go-go power it had. I'll tell ya bout that [censored] off state trooper clocked me at 92mph merging into freeway traffic. Heh. One thing I liked playin with was the electronically controlled suspension. I sorta killed the tranny too living on big hills. Input bearing went, 2nd synchros were shot.

Being a deaf person, I LOVED the air induction sounds it made. Those cars even talked to you w/ a sultry womans voice. The '84 sounded better though.

I got my first DUI Warning in a 81 Plymouth Champ (Twin stick=extra fun) and first DUI in a 76 Dodge Colt 2dr. The Champ put out so much smoke after a long red lite that a cop would stop me, though it was a non DEQ boundary. Twin stick tranny broke internally, stuck in Economy, which was harder on the clutch when taking off in 1st.

I had a 66 Datsun 411 that was BEAT to [censored], and got impounded cause the officer said it appeared unsafe to drive. Same night, $166 and it was out of the yard. It was all because of a bad tire. He claimed it had a bent wheel. I sold that car later, again to another kid for $50. Never changed the oil in that thing.

Who'da thot you'd get so much FUN and experience going through 32 cars? On a final note, I've killed several trannys and not one single auto. What gives?

Sorry for the long rant. Nobody in real life likes talking cars anymore. they just want it to run, and go, automatically. Ive been a lurker for a while here.

 

[y_p_w]

The one thing I can't figure out is why those buying automatic transmissions are clamoring for the appearance that it's a manual transmission. This is as far back as Mercedes-Benz automatic selectors in the 80s with a gated pattern (kind of like exotic cars), up to these days where many automatic transmission selectors have a knob top and a boot.