Battery change in Prius

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: strat81

Regarding the topic at hand, assuming 150,000 miles and $3.50 per gallon of gas:

A 30mpg vehicle will use 5,000 gallons of gasoline resulting in fuel costs of $17,500.

A 50mpg vehicle will use 3,000 gallons of gasoline resulting in fuel costs of $10,500.

(I rounded my gas price based on AAA's national average price of $3.517 today.)

Assuming $2,500 for a Dorman battery plus installation, that leaves you with $4,500 to cover any price difference between your chosen hybrid and a comparable conventional vehicle.

Now that I have provided this information, I fully expect to see people cherry-pick vehicle prices, gas prices, and vehicle mileage to grossly distort the figures the side they choose to support in this argument.

The Prius and other hybrids are compelling vehicles for people with certain transportation needs. In some cases, they can be less expensive to operate than a comparable conventional vehicle. In other cases, a comparable conventional vehicle is less expensive. It is up to the buyer to do the math.

Some people have intangibles that they place a value on: power, handling, image, technology (technophobia?), etc. It is difficult to factor those into a price analysis.

It's obvious that a hybrid or a Prius isn't for everyone, but some of the mental gymnastics in this thread are incredible.



THANK YOU! We agree fully.

I'm not afraid of the technology. In fact, I consider the Prius a high performance car. It performs wonders with a gallon of gas.

I'd like to add that the battery expense at the end of the car's life (say 200K) might not be easy to justify, when, the car probably won't be kept to 300,000 miles. Most people just don't drive cars that long.

 

[Nebroch]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
I'd like to add that the battery expense at the end of the car's life (say 200K) might not be easy to justify, when, the car probably won't be kept to 300,000 miles. Most people just don't drive cars that long.


Estimated repair costs will obiviously impact to the resale value of the vehicle. On the other hand I'd fear turbodiesels and conventional automatic gearboxes with 200k miles more than a Prius hybrid system/battery with this aspect, plenty of expensive stuff waiting to fail.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Everyone makes a big deal from this. If one is not lazy and doesn't have 2 left hands, HV batteries can be fixed very cheaply:

http://priuschat.com/threads/gen-ii-prius-individual-battery-module-replacement.125588/

Now, if one insists on fixing it at a dealership, sure, it will cost $$$$ like anything else at stealerships, duh. Go ahead and price new engine or new tranny at a dealership, LOL!

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: moving2
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
But we have few here getting all bent out of shape almost to the point of digging out OP's SS number and a 10 year tax return history

But at least it's fun to watch the "outrage".


KrisZ- I understand your need to imagine I'm "bent out of shape" or "outraged" about this; it helps you to feel better about the fact that you can't form a rational counterargument. Seen it plenty of times on internet forums.

The truth of the matter is I was just after factual information, which the OP wasn't willing to divulge, so I found it myself and posted it as a contribution to this forum. I don't have any skin in this game whatsoever- as you can see, all my vehicles are about as far from a Prius as you can get, and I have no plans to purchase one.


The reason I haven't responded to you is your attitude. You come across as a very demanding person. You can't demand I produce info for you. My reason for starting this thred was to report on Jim's progress in replaceing his hybrid battery with used battery cells. Which most of us no nothing about. My friend Jim, has the ability to try and tackle this himself. His Prius has a lot of miles on it, but the car itself is still in very nice shape. To nice to scrap. Also I have said, his wife has a Prius as well and he figures that battery will need to be serviced as well. Jim's Prius has had other issues as well. It has left him stranded twice well away from home and had to be towed to Toyota for repairs. They were related to the hybrid system and had something to do with the starting function. What, I have no clue, but it was pricy.

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: tig1
My reason for starting this thred was to report on Jim's progress in replaceing his hybrid battery with used battery cells. Which most of us no nothing about.


Hmmmm....If you had omitted comments like the one below and just reported actual, accurate info about the process, that would have been an interesting thread.

But this post below, your second in the thread, makes it look like you really have an agenda to try to bash the Prius with this thread. Add in the inaccurate numbers with no explanation behind them and the thread looks pretty questionable. Maybe that wasn't your goal, but you didn't do a great job of trying to look unbiased in your presentation of the info.

Originally Posted By: tig1
If he had to have the work done no telling what the price would be. There goes all the fuel savings especially adding in the huge extra cost at the time of purchase. These things seem to be smoke and mirrors.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: tig1
My reason for starting this thred was to report on Jim's progress in replaceing his hybrid battery with used battery cells. Which most of us no nothing about.


Hmmmm....If you had omitted comments like the one below and just reported actual, accurate info about the process, that would have been an interesting thread.

But this post below, your second in the thread, makes it look like you really have an agenda to try to bash the Prius with this thread. Add in the inaccurate numbers with no explanation behind them and the thread looks pretty questionable. Maybe that wasn't your goal, but you didn't do a great job of trying to look unbiased in your presentation of the info.

Originally Posted By: tig1
If he had to have the work done no telling what the price would be. There goes all the fuel savings especially adding in the huge extra cost at the time of purchase. These things seem to be smoke and mirrors.


Perhaps consulting critics here would be wise for some of us older men before we post. I guess getting approval to speak and what to speak may be in this blogs best interest. I'll be sure to check in with you before my next thread.

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: tig1


Perhaps consulting critics here would be wise for some of us older men before we post. I guess getting approval to speak and what to speak may be in this blogs best interest. I'll be sure to check in with you before my next thread.


You're obviously welcome to post what you please, but that doesn't mean everyone in the world is going to agree with you. When it's biased or contains inaccurate info, don't be surprised when people question or challenge some of your claims, or simply disagree.

It's a discussion forum. People pointing out inaccuracies or challenging claims comes with the territory, it doesn't mean you're being "attacked."

 

[moving2]

Originally Posted By: tig1
The reason I haven't responded to you is your attitude. You come across as a very demanding person. You can't demand I produce info for you.


tig1- really? This is how I asked you for the information:

Originally Posted By: moving2
tig1- would be interested to know which Toyota dealer he was in contact with and also the parts/labor breakdown on the $3500-6000 price quote.


I'm not sure how that comes across as demanding. Your response to that was simply "a local one" and that's where I started asking why you were not being forthcoming.

 

[moving2]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Perhaps consulting critics here would be wise for some of us older men before we post. I guess getting approval to speak and what to speak may be in this blogs best interest. I'll be sure to check in with you before my next thread.


tig1- perhaps being more transparent with your information, without letting your ego get in the way, would be wise for anyone posting (old or young!) Also, you say your reason for starting this thread was "to report on Jim's progress in replaceing (sic) his hybrid battery with used battery cells", but you have yet to acknowledge:

1. Your friend provided you with a VERY inaccurate price range ($3.5-6k), AND the same goes for your other friend's daughter ($5k).

2. You've gone above and beyond simply "reporting information", as you like to say, to provide a lot of "editorial commentary" largely based on these inaccurate numbers. This commentary speaks quite negatively of the Prius. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts. You also can't claim to simply be "reporting information" when you're posting such biased editorial commentary based on inaccurate information.

 

[sleddriver]

Wow...the S/N ratio has really dropped since the beginning.

Tig...being a DIY myself, I'm interested in your friends progress, his technique for discovering dead cells and how he goes about all of this. Please keep posting updates and just ignore the background noise.

Forward through the noise.....

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Tig...being a DIY myself, I'm interested in your friends progress, his technique for discovering dead cells and how he goes about all of this. Please keep posting updates and just ignore the background noise.

It would be nice if he could keep us updated without adding background noise also............

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Tig...being a DIY myself, I'm interested in your friends progress, his technique for discovering dead cells and how he goes about all of this. Please keep posting updates and just ignore the background noise.

It would be nice if he could keep us updated without adding background noise also............


I plan to, but I haven't talked to him for a few days. Perhaps I will today.

 

[meep]

...2nd the interest in how "Jim" performs his diags and replacement procedure. I don't recall the chemistry of the prius battery, but my assumption is that he's taking the whole pack to a discharge threshold (too much and he will cause damage depending on the chemistry) then doing a cell voltage comparo to ID the weakest cells.

Please let us know how he fares, and what he did along the way. It's a pretty resourceful DIY if it's what it sounds like!

 

[tig1]

...2nd the interest in how "Jim" performs his diags and replacement procedure. I don't recall the chemistry of the prius battery, but my assumption is that he's taking the whole pack to a discharge threshold (too much and he will cause damage depending on the chemistry) then doing a cell voltage comparo to ID the weakest cells.

Please let us know how he fares, and what he did along the way. It's a pretty resourceful DIY if it's what it sounds like![/quot]

What he is doing is something like you said. I for one am clueless as to all he is doing. He did call this morning and is looking for a used battery from salvage yards but no success yet. I mentioned corrosion problems before. Well Jim said there was severe corrosion at the contacts between each of the 32 cells. He is taking these apart, but the contacts will have to be power wire brush cleaned. He tried baking soda but that wasn't stong enough.

 

[strat81]

Originally Posted By: tig1

...2nd the interest in how "Jim" performs his diags and replacement procedure. I don't recall the chemistry of the prius battery, but my assumption is that he's taking the whole pack to a discharge threshold (too much and he will cause damage depending on the chemistry) then doing a cell voltage comparo to ID the weakest cells.

Please let us know how he fares, and what he did along the way. It's a pretty resourceful DIY if it's what it sounds like![/quot]

What he is doing is something like you said. I for one am clueless as to all he is doing. He did call this morning and is looking for a used battery from salvage yards but no success yet. I mentioned corrosion problems before. Well Jim said there was severe corrosion at the contacts between each of the 32 cells. He is taking these apart, but the contacts will have to be power wire brush cleaned. He tried baking soda but that wasn't stong enough.


I haven't researched it, but I'd be leery of getting a junkyard battery.

I know that the Prius' computers work hard to keep the state of the charge in a very specific range to prevent extreme overcharge or discharge. Supposedly this is to maximize the life of the battery.

If the Prius' NiMH battery has a tendency to discharge significantly when parked for long (12+ months) periods of time, the battery may be practically worthless if he swaps it into his current car.

Unless he has the skillset to test and replace individual modules AND rebalance the battery's charge, he may be best served by one of the Dorman units unless there is a reputably battery refurbisher in the area.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Jim said there was severe corrosion at the contacts between each of the 32 cells. He is taking these apart, but the contacts will have to be power wire brush cleaned. He tried baking soda but that wasn't stong enough.
I'd suggest DeOxit Red spray and a wire-brush wheel in a Moto-tool to start. Also there are fiberglass-tipped pens very effective in removing oxidation. Wurth also makes a battery corrosion cleaner/acid neutralizer that changes colors upon contact.

I'm curious how the corrosion occured? Then again, where you live is a very different environment from where I do.

Pictures?

 

[dhise]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: tig1
Jim said there was severe corrosion at the contacts between each of the 32 cells. He is taking these apart, but the contacts will have to be power wire brush cleaned. He tried baking soda but that wasn't stong enough.
I'd suggest DeOxit Red spray and a wire-brush wheel in a Moto-tool to start. Also there are fiberglass-tipped pens very effective in removing oxidation. Wurth also makes a battery corrosion cleaner/acid neutralizer that changes colors upon contact.

I'm curious how the corrosion occured? Then again, where you live is a very different environment from where I do.

Pictures?


Are there any updates to this? I'm at 220k miles and expecting a battery failure in the next few years.

 

[Doog]

I have found that trading in cars at 200k is my best time financially. So, a Prius would work for me. Battery life is usually tied to the number charge/discharge cycles. So everyone's experience will be as different as their own driving style.

The Toyota Prius is a proven high technology performer in the Hybrid vehicle lineup. I would say without hesitation that it would be my first choice in a hybrid vehicle.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Everyone makes a big deal from this. If one is not lazy and doesn't have 2 left hands, HV batteries can be fixed very cheaply:

http://priuschat.com/threads/gen-ii-prius-individual-battery-module-replacement.125588/

Now, if one insists on fixing it at a dealership, sure, it will cost $$$$ like anything else at stealerships, duh. Go ahead and price new engine or new tranny at a dealership, LOL!


Hey that's a good read...

Not that there's likely ever going to be a Prius in my personal world (I love their epicylic arrangement), but any hack is a good hack.

 

[Y_K]

Originally Posted By: Doog
The Toyota Prius is a proven high technology performer in the Hybrid vehicle lineup.

it is actually low-tech, that's why it is proven. The best were Ni-MHi ones, Lithium is a tad more fragile. Cabbies learned that hard way.