Anyone looking to get the new 2015 GTI?

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
What do you consider a performance car? Would my 2006 Lancer Evo 9 MR which is a 4 door practical car in most terms but was a 420whp track machine. Is that performance? Or a versatile 4 door saloon?

An econobox with a lot of power and several ingenious tricks to wring performance out of a platform that wasn't originally designed to deliver it.


Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Sure I know the GTI is no Ferrari not do I expect it to be but the car has performance roots just like the Miata like the WRX just like the Mazdaspeed if you don't like "performance" fair included then just buy a regular Golf.

Those are three very different kinds of performance "roots."

Of the three, only the Miata is built like a proper sports car. The others are partially re-engineered economy cars, the main difference being that the WRX is starting from a better place than the Mazdaspeed 3 is.

In this vein, the GTI is most comparable to the Mazdaspeed 3.


Sounds like your definition of "performance" boils down to numbers. Fair enough. That's probably a great definition as it allows you to derive satisfaction out of just about any platform that has a lot of power and can turn a fast lap.

To me (and apparently a few others in this thread), it's a lot more complicated than that, and I'm pretty sure we all suffer for it. It's a lot harder to find a legit chassis than it is to find good lap times.


I agree with this.

The reason why numbers are important at least for the type of racing I did (solo 2 scca) to get the car a tenth faster around the track was awesome. The Evo is a very well handling car. I raced 3 of the 4 I owned.

The GTI was derived from a few car enthusiasts in Germany that wanted a sporty hatch with some performance for fun. It works. Yes it's based off an econo car but back in the day all hot rods were derived from a shared platform. That's nothing new. What hurts the GTI like the MS3 is the FWD platform. It was really never intended to be drag raced or anything it was meant to be fun and VW, Mazda, Ford etc have done just that. Made an average econbox that is splashed with some performance spice to make everything nice

I'm grateful they still make these cars. Now a days the focus seems to be on MPG's and CO2's than HP and TQ.

Just glad these fun cars are still around.

Jeff

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Mykl
Having owned a WRX I'm not sure if it's starting from a better place than an MS3 or GTI. Mine had a lot of weaknesses that one would associate with a performance model that shares a chassis with a more mundane model.

Fair enough. But your WRX still had:

1. A boxer engine for a lower CoG,
2. Symmetrical AWD (MUCH better than FWD), and
3. WRC influence, which seems to be a step up from any racing influence available to the MS3 and GTI.

All amped-up econoboxes have weaknesses that real sports cars don't. As far as I know, fast Subarus have fewer of those than fast FWD cars (all else equal). The Evo might be the one exception. It's still not remotely a sports car, but Mitsubishi certainly has worked some magic on it.


Originally Posted By: Mykl
Sport compacts such as these are certainly performance vehicles, they simply offer a different experience than you would find in a Miata or RX-8.

Indeed.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Different strokes for different folks. I don't get disparaging other folks choices. We are all different, and we have a LOT to choose from.

I hope everyone gets the car that gives them a grin as they walk up to it in the parking lot.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Fair enough. But your WRX still had:

1. A boxer engine for a lower CoG,
2. Symmetrical AWD (MUCH better than FWD), and
3. WRC influence, which seems to be a step up from any racing influence available to the MS3 and GTI.

All amped-up econoboxes have weaknesses that real sports cars don't. As far as I know, fast Subarus have fewer of those than fast FWD cars (all else equal). The Evo might be the one exception. It's still not remotely a sports car, but Mitsubishi certainly has worked some magic on it.


Yeah, however, while results of all those things might lead to better lap times, that is not something you're too worried about when you buy a car like a GTI. Regarding #2, to be honest, I prefer how my GTI handles to my old WRX. I don't care that the WRX could understeer out of a corner faster than my GTI, it doesn't really make my drive to work any more or less fun.

Heck, in a way the AWD in the WRX can take away from the experience, because the feeling of too much power and not enough grip and managing wheelspin at lower speeds absolutely adds to the experience of driving these cars (the value of that experience depends on the person, of course). (also, not bagging on the WRX, it's a great car, just highlighting a difference)

I went through my "buy the fastest car I can afford phase" nearly ten years ago with an STi. With that I learned that all it takes to be the HPDE champion is money. I think the only car I ever waved by in that Subaru was a 700 hp Corvette. But all the drawbacks of owning the fastest car possible for a set amount of money wears you out over time. This is why I think it's absurd for somebody to thump their chest over how DSG is the only way and manual clutches are for chumps, because if I really cared about going faster than you.... I'd have bought a Mustang GT.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Mykl
Yeah, however, while results of all those things might lead to better lap times, that is not something you're too worried about when you buy a car like a GTI. Regarding #2, to be honest, I prefer how my GTI handles to my old WRX. I don't care that the WRX could understeer out of a corner faster than my GTI, it doesn't really make my drive to work any more or less fun.

Heck, in a way the AWD in the WRX can take away from the experience, because the feeling of too much power and not enough grip and managing wheelspin at lower speeds absolutely adds to the experience of driving these cars (the value of that experience depends on the person, of course). (also, not bagging on the WRX, it's a great car, just highlighting a difference)

Fair points.

I guess I'd say that your GTI's advantages are down to tuning rather than the merits of the fundamental platform. But again, fair points.


Originally Posted By: Mykl
But all the drawbacks of owning the fastest car possible for a set amount of money wears you out over time. This is why I think it's absurd for somebody to thump their chest over how DSG is the only way and manual clutches are for chumps, because if I really cared about going faster than you.... I'd have bought a Mustang GT.

Agreed.

 

[adolan21]

If I decide to get a used MK7 GTI in the future, it'll probably end up being a manual. As much as I love my DSG, I miss the connection of driver to car. Sure it's faster but it's a few tenths off which really doesn't matter on the street. The maintenance is also more expensive ~$300 every 40K miles. Don't get me wrong, the transmission is smooth as can be, faster than any human can shift, addicting "burp" sounds from the exhaust when it shifts, but I still miss a manual. Maybe the best resolution is a DSG GTI and a manual S2000 or something.

 

[Lolvoguy]

sorry for the off topic question, but how does a Volvo C30 compare to one of these? or even the Focus ST?

I have considered one, but there doesn't seem to be much info on the Volvo since it's release in the late 00's

thanks in advance

 

[Dohc98vteC]

I think for the price, I'd rather get into a gently used (turbo) 328i. However the utility of a hatch merits a lot of weight for some and GTI's are a great driving machine as well.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Dohc98vteC
I think for the price, I'd rather get into a gently used (turbo) 328i. However the utility of a hatch merits a lot of weight for some and GTI's are a great driving machine as well.

You could pick up a 328i wagon that also offers great utility, alas, you'll end up with both AWD and slushbox as mandatory features.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy
sorry for the off topic question, but how does a Volvo C30 compare to one of these? or even the Focus ST?

I have considered one, but there doesn't seem to be much info on the Volvo since it's release in the late 00's

thanks in advance


I like them; I have a couple of friends who own them and they really like them- one of whom used to be the M specialist/salesperson at a large BMW dealer(her car has quite a few of the Volvo Polestar performance accessories).
In case you haven't seen them, here are a couple of Car and Driver articles on the car:

2007 Comparison Test

C30 Polestar Limited Edition

Guess which one I'd have to find...

 

[JetStar]

I really like the C30 T5, If I could have found one in my area to test drive, I may have bought it. Sales of the C30 peaked in 2008 with about 4300 sold. IIRC built on the focus platform?
I have owned manuals almost exclusively for the last 30 years. So when I was looking at GTI's I was looking for a manual 3-Door. A 4-door was out of the question. I couldn't find one, the dealer did a search and the only 3-door manual available east of the mississipi was tornado red. He was more than happy to get it, said 2-3 days and he'd have it. Myself, not a big fan of red, I like seeing it on other peoples cars, just not mine. He asked if I had ever driven a DSG, which I had not. So he throws me the keys to a united gray 3-door with sunroof and conv. and tells my son and I to take it out for the afternoon and drive around Indy. I commute with the car, and sure I miss the manual sometimes, but I sure like the DSG.

 

[rjundi]

Likely a used commuter for my wife in a few years. I wish this motor would fall into the forthcoming 2015 Golf SportWagen along with the suspension. My wife loves wagons but wants some power and MT which leaves very little out there.

IMHO you cannot do better for a more comfortable but incredibly fun to drive car with great handling with a useful daily power curve. The interior is quite nice too and care verstile. I honestly think nothing like it exists with such a balance. All for $25k!! I see it sitting in driveway next to our likely forthcoming minivan in the next 3-5 years.

For those RWD folks you give up lots in similar priced choices as a daily driver.

 

[Mykl]

The amount of horsepower people are getting from the new GTI with just an ECU tune is pretty crazy. The joke floating around the VW forums is that a K04 turbo upgraded MkVI GTI can't keep up with a "stage 1" tuned MkVII GTI.

Something in the area of 300 to 310 hp and 350 lb ft of torque.... nuts. That's legitimately fast.