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#1217620 - 08/16/08 11:47 AM Re: ATF Fluids [Re: Jimbo]
bmwtechguy Offline


Registered: 06/15/04
Posts: 2524
Loc: South Carolina
I saw RP 75W-140 at AZ for $16/qt

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#1431502 - 04/10/09 10:34 PM Re: ATF Fluids [Re: bmwtechguy]
gamefoo21 Offline


Registered: 04/19/08
Posts: 129
Loc: Kah-nah-dah
Slam the ATF in an engine all you want. But what I know is, and from what I've experienced is...

Dumping a litre into the crank will do [censored] all.

Dumping out the old oil, refilling with a nice synthetic ATF and maybe a tin of engine flush, with a new filter on a engine that has been running amsoil 5w30.

Resulted in one plugged filter hitting the bypass after 2 minutes of alternating the idle. The ATF that went in cherry red, came out black like tar, stank like rotting gym socks, and the refill of Redline 5w30 stayed clear for 800-1000km.

It's like All Bran but for your engine.

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#1639808 - 10/21/09 07:28 AM Re: ATF Fluids [Re: benjamming]
karan Offline


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 2
Loc: India
which the base oil is used for ATF

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#1656834 - 11/03/09 02:34 PM Re: ATF Fluids [Re: karan]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14518
Loc: Midwest
Quote:
which [what is] the base oil is used for ATF


The base oil for non-synthetic ATF's is GroupII or II+ ; usually used for DexronIII/Mercon and Universal run-of-the-mill ATFs. They usually start out with a 4 cSt base oil and thicken it with Viscoity Index Improvers or VIIs.

It's the thin viscosity, rather than the additives that gives it a flushing effect. I would not use ATF either by itself or with a can of motor flush to clean an engine. There is low-level anti-wear additive package in these fluids but not suited for engines. I prefer to use frequent oil changes and or ARX.

For GM's DexronVI it is GroupIII. For full-synthetic ATFs such as Redline, Amsoil, and Mobil, they use predominately PAO's with low dosages of GroupIV compounds.
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#1663941 - 11/08/09 10:02 PM Re: ATF Fluids [Re: MolaKule]
Ken2 Offline


Registered: 12/02/02
Posts: 6161
Loc: Washington St.
Some motorcycle riders use ATF as a lube for their o-ring chains. (O-ring chains have an o-ring between the side plates to seal lube between the pin and bushing. The bushing-to-roller interface and the roller-to-sprocket still need lube.)

So...would ATF be much good for this given the small amount of AW and no EP in it, or is it working just because some lube is better than no lube, and ATF isn't sticky and won't hold much grit?

There are perpetual discussions of chain wax lube, chain sticky lube, gear oil, used engine oil, WD-40, chainsaw bar & chain oil (very tacky), and dry lubes like DuPont Teflon Multi Purpose spray, dry spray with moly & graphite in a volatile penetrant, and others.
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#1664886 - 11/09/09 06:19 PM Re: ATF Fluids [Re: Ken2]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14518
Loc: Midwest
Quote:
So...would ATF be much good for this given the small amount of AW and no EP in it, or is it working just because some lube is better than no lube, and ATF isn't sticky and won't hold much grit?


That's about it.
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#1751307 - 01/22/10 08:03 AM Re: ATF Fluids [Re: MolaKule]
ray_ray Offline


Registered: 01/20/10
Posts: 9
Loc: WA, usa
Interesting thread...
One more question as I can't follow all the details here

How would ATF rate when used as the transmission oil for a 2-stroke motorcycle engine?

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#1751371 - 01/22/10 08:55 AM Re: ATF Fluids [Re: MolaKule]
ray_ray Offline


Registered: 01/20/10
Posts: 9
Loc: WA, usa
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
which [what is] the base oil is used for ATF


The base oil for non-synthetic ATF's is GroupII or II+ ; usually used for DexronIII/Mercon and Universal run-of-the-mill ATFs. They usually start out with a 4 cSt base oil and thicken it with Viscoity Index Improvers or VIIs.



I just asked the question about 2-strokes bikes using this oil in their transmissions but after re-reading this part about using VIIs here is news to me also and I'd guess ATF fluid is suspect to shear breakdown just like a multi-grade motor oil... And it starts life with the lower grades oil types.

Is this true of the true synthetic (non crude ) ATF fluids?

Plus I'm not sure about the 4 cSt to viscosity conversation but this sounds an ATF starts life at a very low wt.

PS -- I don't mean to crash UR thread here but you guys seem to know your stuff on ATF fluids.


Edited by ray_ray (01/22/10 08:59 AM)

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#1753430 - 01/24/10 02:17 AM Re: ATF Fluids [Re: ray_ray]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14518
Loc: Midwest
One could use a DexronVI type fluid since the shearing has been shown to be almost zip if you are worried about shearing.

One the other end of the scale is the High Mileage ATF's which start out with a higher viscosity.


Edited by MolaKule (01/24/10 02:19 AM)
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#1941893 - 07/03/10 07:17 PM Re: ATF Fluids [Re: bmwtechguy]
emaax Offline


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 37
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
I saw RP 75W-140 at AZ for $16/qt shocked

teh average factory price of the barrel of 4L (4qt?) of 100% syntetic is 100
google Tabela_Precos_Castrol_Distribui_PVP2008.07.pdf
or 0000_tabelasPrecosPVP08_BP_3.pdf
and you see the kind of oil prices are recommended around here portugal (europe)

for the 100/4L get it by 70 in supermarkets
on ebay and other sites one can get better prices

by looking at the references... one can also see what oils are syntetic and mineral

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#3440015 - 07/29/14 08:44 PM Re: ATF Fluids [Re: MolaKule]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14518
Loc: Midwest
BTW, The Boron is an agent separate from the dye.

In some cases, the dispersant used in an ATF is an ashless dispersant which has been phosphorylated and/or boronated with a hydrocarbyl succinimide, which give rise to the Boron and Phosphorous counts.

A small amount of ZDDP may also be used as a primary anti-oxidant.
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#3443039 - 08/01/14 04:17 PM Re: ATF Fluids [Re: MolaKule]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14518
Loc: Midwest
From Question of the Day:

The clutch disc material of Automatic Transmissions, and other wet clutch applications, are made of porous friction materials which are bonded to steel core plates.

Friction materials may include cellulose, carbon fiber, Aramids, fiberglass, or a combination of materials (composites).

Today, composites rule.

Note: Sintered metal composites may be found in HDD applications.

This material must exhibit:

1.) Mu(o), low speed dynamic coefficient; affected by friction material ingredients and ATF additives adsorption

2.) Mu(i), initial dynamic coefficient at high speed; affected by hydrodynamic effects/porosity/compression/roughness.
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#3469832 - 08/31/14 07:41 AM Re: ATF Fluids [Re: MolaKule]
RamFan Offline


Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 1568
Loc: Illinois, U.S.A
Interesting thread, nice to see informative posts on BITOG again. Mola, what exactly makes ATF +4 so special? From my understanding of the ATF world, most ATFs are some form of Dex/Merc with tweaks made to meet various OE demands. However, ATF +4 is a different breed. I've read AllPar's page on the development of the product but I guess I'm missing the "why" of it's speciality.
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+5.7l V8 - 160k - SynPower 5w30 - Fram TG - 5k/6mo

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#3470116 - 08/31/14 02:36 PM Re: ATF Fluids [Re: MolaKule]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14518
Loc: Midwest
ATF + 4 has a slightly different Mu(v) (static/dynamic COF) curve verses DexronIII/Merc, and a low Brookfield viscosity spec.
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#3484700 - 09/16/14 07:27 PM Re: ATF Fluids [Re: MolaKule]
Leeeeeee Offline


Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 1
Loc: Ontario,Canada
Which means what?

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