Beware of Chinese Craftsman wrenches

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Mykl


Originally Posted By: Trav
America is catering to the worlds unwashed, TB infected, uneducated masses


I'm stunned that a moderator on this board, someone who agreed to enforce a basic set of rules, would not only look past this, but actually defend the person. That statement that I quoted is either xenophobic, or racist... or both.

I know that you and Trav are buddies, but this thread devolved into politics and you're choosing to let it continue, rather than lock it (as per forum rules), because you have a personal interest in pushing your opinion on the subject.


I'm buddies with both of them and I find your position utterly ridiculous. Trav isn't being xenophobic OR racist, he's making a (rather blunt) statement that people who do not go through the proper immigration channels (read: illegals) are in fact often unclean, uneducated and they could in fact certainly be infected with God knows what! Historically, proper immigration has in fact been a challenge, as Trav gave his experience on. The reason is that those who immigrate to our countries are to be an asset, not a burden. Illegals, particularly those Trav described, are a burden. A burden on our healthcare programs, a burden on our welfare/taxation....etc. And they also cost legitimate citizens work. And that legitimate citizen can also be a Mexican who immigrated through the proper channels and actually bothered to learn English.

This is a topic with a very long history on this board. A topic that the group of us have discussed extensively in the past. JHZR2 didn't pee in your sandbox or kick sand in your face because you called Trav a doo-doo head. He defended Trav's position because Trav went to all the trouble of explaining WHY his position is what it is (being a LEGAL immigrant himself) and you just want to label him so that you don't have to deal with processing that. It is, as JHZR2 noted, a cop out.

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Chinese wrenches just can't get a break! If the wrench was thinner, the same guy would have complained about the thin metal!! And you can bet on it.

Probably. Because the wrench would still be junk.

Common sense tells you that you wouldn't add bulk to an existing decades old proven design unless you had to. Especially to a wrench that's never been known as weak or slender.

Here are some side by sides. Garage Journal


Just now returned from my somewhat local salvage yard to get a replacement hors for my new to me vehicle. I pulled it myself, using a set of Harbor Freight sockets, extension, & ratchet, 1/4 inch BTW. Bolt holding the horn assy. to the frame was rusted and I used a 16MM combo wrench to increase my leverage. This Chinese junk as some call it snapped off the bolt, this bolt was 8MM in thickness and was not rusted thru, clean metal all the way thru. Chinese wrench didn't bend, 1/4 inch Chinese socket wasn't harmed in any way, all is good.

This is a the set to that I used that was from H/F

http://www.harborfreight.com/high-visibility-14-in-drive-metric-socket-set-21-pc-67998.html

This is a similar set only Craftsman brand

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/...mp;gclsrc=aw.ds

Now explain why I should spend $52.00 more when the use will be very limited? I've had this set for maybe 5 years, this is the 2nd time I've used it.

 

[Michael_P]

Quote:
No way to actually know that unless you actually know the meteralogy of what was used and have a Rockwell tester.

Otherwise you are only surmising.



You are right jcwit, I am surmising. However, my experience tells me a thicker tool of the same purpose is generally made of a lesser quality metal. That doesn't mean it wont have a good service life. I happen to have a Rockwell tester I picked up on the cheap at an auction (no one knew what it was). It does make me want to buy a Chinese Craftsman wrench to find out. Though it seems the individual wrenches are made in the US and the sets are coming in from China. I just might buy a set to test.

 

[jcwit]

Don't forget to grind the plating off before testing.

 

[jcwit]

Regarding the "thicker" tool being inferior. I've never noticed the Chinese hammers being thicker.

Neither was the 1/4 inch socket pieces.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: jcwit


Just now returned from my somewhat local salvage yard to get a replacement hors for my new to me vehicle. I pulled it myself, using a set of Harbor Freight sockets, extension, & ratchet, 1/4 inch BTW. Bolt holding the horn assy. to the frame was rusted and I used a 16MM combo wrench to increase my leverage. This Chinese junk as some call it snapped off the bolt, this bolt was 8MM in thickness and was not rusted thru, clean metal all the way thru. Chinese wrench didn't bend, 1/4 inch Chinese socket wasn't harmed in any way, all is good.

This is a the set to that I used that was from H/F

http://www.harborfreight.com/high-visibility-14-in-drive-metric-socket-set-21-pc-67998.html

This is a similar set only Craftsman brand

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/...mp;gclsrc=aw.ds

Now explain why I should spend $52.00 more when the use will be very limited? I've had this set for maybe 5 years, this is the 2nd time I've used it.

Why did you quote me? You post had nothing to do with mine. Pretty much everyone including me said to by HF vs higher priced Chinese Craftsman.

To salvage this a little, I did happen to buy a bunch of the Craftsman Industrial stuff when they were closing it out for dirt cheap on the website a couple years ago. Everything looks well made but I haven't used any of it yet. Certainly feels better than the stuff at HF. I was also in HF the other day to buy zip ties. It was a new experience being about to break one with my bare hand grasping the end while tightening it up. I'm debating on whether it's worth the trouble of returning for the $2.79.

 

[Donald]

Its not where the tools are made, its the quality control. Kohler makes engines in China and they are pretty good engines. Craftsman could have or hire a company do QA on the Chinese Craftsman tools and send back buckets of the rejects to China and not accept them or pay for them. But the current Craftsman tools from China may meet the contract specs.

 

[Michael_P]

Quote:
Don't forget to grind the plating off before testing.


On the Chinese ones I'll just use my fingernail

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: hatt

Why did you quote me? You post had nothing to do with mine. Pretty much everyone including me said to by HF vs higher priced Chinese Craftsman.



Why? Because in your post you said
----------------------------
Probably. Because the wrench would still be junk.

Common sense tells you that you wouldn't add bulk to an existing decades old proven design unless you had to. Especially to a wrench that's never been known as weak or slender.
------------------------------------
Which in my case as I pointed out such was not the case, the tools performed above and beyond what they were designed to do. At least that's MO when one adds a foot long extension to the ratchet handle to gain more leverage.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: hatt

Why did you quote me? You post had nothing to do with mine. Pretty much everyone including me said to by HF vs higher priced Chinese Craftsman.



Why? Because in your post you said
----------------------------
Probably. Because the wrench would still be junk.

Common sense tells you that you wouldn't add bulk to an existing decades old proven design unless you had to. Especially to a wrench that's never been known as weak or slender.
------------------------------------
Which in my case as I pointed out such was not the case, the tools performed above and beyond what they were designed to do. At least that's MO when one adds a foot long extension to the ratchet handle to gain more leverage.
We were talking about the redesigned Chinese Craftsman wrenches. Not HF ratchet sets and how it performed one time on a task of unknown severity.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: jcwit
Common sense tells you that you wouldn't add bulk to an existing decades old proven design unless you had to. Especially to a wrench that's never been known as weak or slender.


I can agree with that. Hazet has some of the thinnest "normal" wrenches on the market, the steel is easily strong enough to take it. Of course these are premium tools with a premium price tag.
They wouldn't make them thicker for no reason.

 

[hatt]

No one is going to be able to tell me they went from the top design to the bottom design and kept materials and production the same. Same part number, LOL.

Link

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Common sense tells you that you wouldn't add bulk to an existing decades old proven design unless you had to. Especially to a wrench that's never been known as weak or slender.


I can agree with that. Hazet has some of the thinnest "normal" wrenches on the market, the steel is easily strong enough to take it. Of course these are premium tools with a premium price tag.
They wouldn't make them thicker for no reason.


Yes, my Gedore ones are quite thin yet incredibly strong. Far stronger than some of my other, much thicker wrenches. Of course the Snap-On ones are excellent quality too, but I have a mixed selection of those, whilst I have an entire metric set of the Gedore ones.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Mykl



Originally Posted By: Trav
America is catering to the worlds unwashed, TB infected, uneducated masses


I'm stunned that a moderator on this board, someone who agreed to enforce a basic set of rules, would not only look past this, but actually defend the person. That statement that I quoted is either xenophobic, or racist... or both.



Actually I left that because I lived it. A year or so ago I was working long shifts in a secure, billion dollar research facility. It's difficult to get foreign folks there, but some can get appointments to work at the facility.

The scientist who oversaw our equipment, a fine Indian lady who immigrated here legally at least 25 years ago, started seeing that the foreign visitors on the next set of equipment over were hacking up a storm. She recognized the pattern of how they were hacking and coughing from living in India.

They ended up being expelled from the lab for working while having some strain of pertussis. Yes the same pertussis that we (and Mexicans and 78% of folks in the combined Americas) get at least while young. But unfortunately folks come from everywhere, and so there is some reality to what Trav said.

http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2005/feb/12/20050212-112200-6485r/?page=all

http://www.wired.com/2012/05/chagas-new-hiv/

Will you quit the phobia claim given that CDC has started new branches to deal with this?

http://www.cdc.gov/ncezid/dgmq/


By the way, how can I be xenophobic when I write at least one recommendation letter yearly for a highly qualified technically trained foreigner to be given special consideration by INS? If I was so scared wouldn't I save the time, effort and energy vouching for these folks before my own government? Hint: not a single one I've ever written a letter for has come from Europe or any semblance of a first world origin, none match my skin or eye color, nor religious orientation.

So how about back to chinesium for real reasons, not because immigrants and kids of immigrants are somehow scared of immigrants.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2

Actually I left that because I lived it. A year or so ago I was working long shifts in a secure, billion dollar research facility. It's difficult to get foreign folks there, but some can get appointments to work at the facility.

The scientist who oversaw our equipment, a fine Indian lady who immigrated here legally at least 25 years ago, started seeing that the foreign visitors on the next set of equipment over were hacking up a storm. She recognized the pattern of how they were hacking and coughing from living in India.

They ended up being expelled from the lab for working while having some strain of pertussis. Yes the same pertussis that we (and Mexicans and 78% of folks in the combined Americas) get at least while young. But unfortunately folks come from everywhere, and so there is some reality to what Trav said.

http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2005/feb/12/20050212-112200-6485r/?page=all

http://www.wired.com/2012/05/chagas-new-hiv/

Will you quit the phobia claim given that CDC has started new branches to deal with this?

http://www.cdc.gov/ncezid/dgmq/


By the way, how can I be xenophobic when I write at least one recommendation letter yearly for a highly qualified technically trained foreigner to be given special consideration by INS? If I was so scared wouldn't I save the time, effort and energy vouching for these folks before my own government? Hint: not a single one I've ever written a letter for has come from Europe or any semblance of a first world origin, none match my skin or eye color, nor religious orientation.

So how about back to chinesium for real reasons, not because immigrants and kids of immigrants are somehow scared of immigrants.


It's funny that you focus on one of the three things he said, like it's even reasonable to suggest that millions of people are infected with the plague because they caught five people in a lab with an illness other than the one he chose to throw out there.

It's one thing to make the statement that immigrants tend to be carriers of diseases that the average citizen does not have, because it's likely true due to differences in quality of healthcare / vaccinations / etc. That is a genuine concern. But when you lump that in with multiple other statements about how millions of people are immediately undesireable that is absolutely xenophobic, or racist, or both.

You can pick apart the statement and rationalize it all you want, but that doesn't make it right. Those are the things you say when you don't want to think of a group of people as actual people, as living, breathing, human beings. Those are the things you say when you want to think of them as subhuman, because it makes it easy to support doing cruel things to objects that are lesser than you. Because if they're not people, there's no point in putting in any amount of effort to empathize with the situation they're in or why they took the risks to be here. It lets you write off millions of people with a single lazy, ignorant statement.

You may be fine with that, I am not.

 

[JHZR2]

Hogwash. You keep rationalizing others' thought processes to make your case. Not going to change our minds. What I don't get is why you so vehemently argue and try to pull the buzzwords as basis for making your point. I'm sure you didn't read the links I provided, which go beyond people in the lab.

I'll have you know that in my purchasing choices, my legal countrymen come first whenever possible. You can't always get what you want, in which case one must look elsewhere. But I personally find it hard to believe that others don't. Especially when they pull race, xenophobia, etc into it. Hmmm, have you seen the working and environmental conditions in many of those third world manufacturing sites? Not to mention health and safety, and environmental. You think there is a subhuman bent here? Check what subhuman conditions are created to save you 50c on your Chinesium product.

It's clear you don't get our basis so I'm not going to waste my time in this thread anymore.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Hogwash. You keep rationalizing others' thought processes to make your case. Not going to change our minds. What I don't get is why you so vehemently argue and try to pull the buzzwords as basis for making your point. I'm sure you didn't read the links I provided, which go beyond people in the lab.

I'll have you know that in my purchasing choices, my legal countrymen come first whenever possible. You can't always get what you want, in which case one must look elsewhere. But I personally find it hard to believe that others don't. Especially when they pull race, xenophobia, etc into it. Hmmm, have you seen the working and environmental conditions in many of those third world manufacturing sites? Not to mention health and safety, and environmental. You think there is a subhuman bent here? Check what subhuman conditions are created to save you 50c on your Chinesium product.

It's clear you don't get our basis so I'm not going to waste my time in this thread anymore.


I don't care if your mind is changed. But having the basic desire to study history and see how examples of this type of rhetoric has lead to some of the most horrific human disasters doesn't leave me with much tolerance for such bigotry.

You may support it because you want to keep them darn dirty immigrants out of your rice bowl, but that doesn't make it right.

 

[cptbarkey]

lock this thread down, there isnt anything but foaming from the mouth.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Common sense tells you that you wouldn't add bulk to an existing decades old proven design unless you had to. Especially to a wrench that's never been known as weak or slender.


I can agree with that. Hazet has some of the thinnest "normal" wrenches on the market, the steel is easily strong enough to take it. Of course these are premium tools with a premium price tag.
They wouldn't make them thicker for no reason.


Yes, my Gedore ones are quite thin yet incredibly strong. Far stronger than some of my other, much thicker wrenches. Of course the Snap-On ones are excellent quality too, but I have a mixed selection of those, whilst I have an entire metric set of the Gedore ones.


Gedore is a high quality tool, i have some also. I also have some old originals that have the original name Dowidat.
Dowidat was considered even better than Hazet by many, the finish on the sockets was nicer.
Rahsol is also part of the group but not as nicely finished as the Gedore but with the same steel quality and a lower price tag. The Gedore branded never quite matched the finish of the Dowidats but the steel was the same quality.
If you ever to come across the name Dowidat on some used tools grab them.

Quote:
The company name "GE-DO-RE" is an acronym of "GEbrüder DOwidat REmscheid".

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Its not where the tools are made, its the quality control.


This!

I have quite a few HF wrenches, ratchets etc and haven't gotten a burr yet. They are holding up very well and they have their lifetime warranty. I go there several times a month when school is in.. (its just right down the road)

I don't doubt a HF wrench can snap a bolt. I recently bought this and it has held up through a lot of abuse so far. http://www.harborfreight.com/3-8-eighth-inch-heavy-duty-composite-ratchet-66313.html