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Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
^^^Please share with us how many of these are available?

(Hint: it's a VERY small number in our VERY large country!)


The Tesla website says 103 Supercharger stations are open.
The Alternative Fuels Data Center website says there are 732 CNG stations across the country. And I bet it doesn't take 30 minutes to fill up at any one of them.
Hmmmm.



Indeed. 100 across the entire country. Truly a laughable number st this point. I must emphatically note that NO ONE can drive coast to coast for free. Not to mention the incredibly slow pace of travel if I have to stop for a 30 minute break every few hours!

Only the cheerleaders are into this, it has a LOOOONG way to go before it even remotely becomes practical for anyone who drives any distance.

The only people it works for are short commuters...
 
Friends of mine are taking the plunge with a 220V high speed home charger for a new Tesla sedan they just ordered. I might get to tag along on a factory tour when they take delivery.

I say go for it - more gasoline for me!

About the original post; in the late 70s my folks bought a used '77(?) Buick (equivalent to a Chevy Nova) that had an aftermarket dual CNG and gasoline fuel system. It was a pain to buy CNG and the switch (actually a push-pull cable underneath the dash) was not trivial to operate either. Of course the CNG tank and plumbing became vestigial over time.
Kevin
 
Just checked on CNG stations. There isn't a single one along the I-95 corridor(within 50 miles of the interstate) between Richmond,VA., and South Florida. I travel home to Florida often from Greenville, SC., and it would be impossible to do it in either a CNG or electric car. The infrastructure has a long way to go before either of these fuel alternatives becomes feasible. But I do believe they are coming, it'll just be a while.
 
CNG is a good choice for fleet owners that have a single point to refuel and whose vehicles return there daily, UPS or public/school buses/garbage trucks for example.

Because the normal consumer can't immediately benefit, doesn't mean it is a bad idea.
 
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Originally Posted By: Chris142
they have not figured out how to tax it yet! plus mpg would take a big hit.


Exactly...a couple of decades ago, I think it was Honda that were going to offer CNG cars with fill at home capability.

Federal Government said that if they were installed, the homeowner would be taxed as 'though every cubic foot of gas that entered their premesis were being used in the car...killed the idea stone dead.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
^^^Please share with us how many of these are available?

(Hint: it's a VERY small number in our VERY large country!)


The Tesla website says 103 Supercharger stations are open.
The Alternative Fuels Data Center website says there are 732 CNG stations across the country. And I bet it doesn't take 30 minutes to fill up at any one of them.
Hmmmm.


How's that CNG car company's stock doing?
 
Really nice City operated CNG station in Clearwater where we work often. Nice prices, too!

Let's face the facts guys, even 700 or 800 stations is unlikely to handle MILLIONS of cars. Plus I can only imagine the oil companies will be really happy to allow competition.

Gas works well, modern cars are incredibly clean and efficient. Expect it to remain the mainstay for awhile yet...
 
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
^^^Please share with us how many of these are available?

(Hint: it's a VERY small number in our VERY large country!)


The Tesla website says 103 Supercharger stations are open.
The Alternative Fuels Data Center website says there are 732 CNG stations across the country. And I bet it doesn't take 30 minutes to fill up at any one of them.
Hmmmm.


How's that CNG car company's stock doing?


You might want to ask yourself how you can support an artificially enriched stock price. There's no real equity, just good design smarts and a great ability to milk the cow. Tesla made most of their money selling tax credits, not cars.

If it wasn't for the government handing out moolah they would not be successful.
 
You guys have to lay off the cynicism. Not everyone needs to drive 2k miles down I80 pulling a massive trailer with a truck every day of the week. Statistically those of you who said a Tesla wouldn't work, which would mean your commute is 200-300 miles a day are small. The vast majority of people drive less.

Tesla is a great company and I'm proud that the US still has people with visions and the ability to make stuff like that happen.

The Model S has a 300 mile range which supposedly will be 400 in the not to distant future. I don't drive that in a week, I could buy a Model S drive it like any other car, and at 250 miles say on Friday night plug it into my garage and Sat morning be good for another week. Its no different than stopping at the gas station to fuel my truck.

Their are enough super charging stations in my area that I could drive it quite a ways up and down I95.

Go Tesla prove the naysayers wrong! Just like Henry Ford did to all the rich elitists who never thought the working man could afford a car.
 
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Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Indeed. 100 across the entire country. Truly a laughable number st this point. I must emphatically note that NO ONE can drive coast to coast for free. Not to mention the incredibly slow pace of travel if I have to stop for a 30 minute break every few hours!


I look at it in a completely different light. It is incredible that a new player has entered an extremely mature market and introduced such a disruptive technology and business model and implemented it in such a short time. Tesla has made both their competitors and the public question age-old conclusions made about the viability of electric cars... so much so that many mainstream players are developing their own versions... just in case...

And people have driven coast to coast in a Tesla. With the current Superchargers in service, you do need to plan your route, and no, not all parts of the continental US are covered yet, but for many travelers, a cross country trek would be accomplished pretty easily with a little planning.

It's too early to tell where this will go, but either way Tesla has disrupted the status quo and challenged a business model that has been largely unchallenged for a hundred years (including the sacred cow of dealership franchising).

Now, where is my Model III?
smile.gif
 
CNG based vehicle are extremely common in many of the cities in India. Many actually have converted the petrol engine to run on CNG and they can be switched to run on either. Almost all of the city buses and taxi fleets run on CNG. Before CNG became prominent, the pollution used to be very bad. The air has been cleaned up considerably as most of the transportation needs are satisfied by CNG.
 
Originally Posted By: SwedishRider
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
^^^Please share with us how many of these are available?

(Hint: it's a VERY small number in our VERY large country!)


The Tesla website says 103 Supercharger stations are open.
The Alternative Fuels Data Center website says there are 732 CNG stations across the country. And I bet it doesn't take 30 minutes to fill up at any one of them.
Hmmmm.


Not really a fair comparison. How many total electric charging stations including Superchargers in the USA? And how many CNG installations are in residential homes? Theoretically, just about every modern home could have a charging station installed.


Where did you get the idea that the CNG number includes installations in homes? The number is for CNG dispensers that are open to the public.
 
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
^^^Please share with us how many of these are available?

(Hint: it's a VERY small number in our VERY large country!)


The Tesla website says 103 Supercharger stations are open.
The Alternative Fuels Data Center website says there are 732 CNG stations across the country. And I bet it doesn't take 30 minutes to fill up at any one of them.
Hmmmm.


How's that CNG car company's stock doing?


Which one? There is more than one company building CNG cars.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: SwedishRider
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
^^^Please share with us how many of these are available?

(Hint: it's a VERY small number in our VERY large country!)


The Tesla website says 103 Supercharger stations are open.
The Alternative Fuels Data Center website says there are 732 CNG stations across the country. And I bet it doesn't take 30 minutes to fill up at any one of them.
Hmmmm.


Not really a fair comparison. How many total electric charging stations including Superchargers in the USA? And how many CNG installations are in residential homes? Theoretically, just about every modern home could have a charging station installed.


Where did you get the idea that the CNG number includes installations in homes? The number is for CNG dispensers that are open to the public.


Um, that's my point. It was a rhetorical question. I was getting at the idea that just about every modern home could be outfitted as an electric recharging station, but not the case with CNG.
 
Originally Posted By: SwedishRider

Um, that's my point. It was a rhetorical question. I was getting at the idea that just about every modern home could be outfitted as an electric recharging station, but not the case with CNG.


There's a net difference of zero if you want to advocate putting electric car charging stations in homes. How many homes have natural gas plumbed to them? I've never lived in a home that didn't have natural gas.

In the past, I have looked into putting auxiliary natural gas fuel systems in my Camaro and my Ram, and then putting in a home CNG fueling system (the Phill is probably the most talked about one). I was thinking about doomsday scenarios where the Middle East erupts in war and the world has to get along without their oil. I came up with a number of $7000 to put tanks and fuel systems on each vehicle, and $5000 for the Phill.

How much does a Tesla Model III and a home recharging station cost?
 
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I'm on the opposing side of the nat gas availability. There is none whatsoever in my area and will never be. But every home has electricity.

Model III is slated for $35K. Home charging station depends on installation costs for the area and local codes.
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Why aren't move vehicles being converted to CNG? If the gas comes from America, is cheap, clean, burns cleaner can extend engine life and save the planet why is it not on more vehicles than buses, delivery trucks and the occasional pickup or conventional auto?


GM, Ford, and Chrysler have developed dual-fuel (natural gas and gasoline) versions of their 1/2-ton pickups. Honda has sold a dedicated CNG vehicle called the Civic GX for many years. The technology exists to put natural gas fuel systems on many different models of cars, but nobody has stepped up to develop a system that the DIY'er can put on in a few days.
 
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There are a couple of myths in this discussion.

We have plenty of cars that run on LPG over here and pretty much all the taxis.

Here are a couple of drawbacks:

The engine contrary to popular belief will last about 70% of it's designed life if run only on LPG.

The car needs to start on gasoline during the cold weather and then switch to LPG.

The power output is smaller from the same engine.

The savings overall are marginal and this system is worth considering only if you do 30K+ miles a year.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Why aren't move vehicles being converted to CNG? If the gas comes from America, is cheap, clean, burns cleaner can extend engine life and save the planet why is it not on more vehicles than buses, delivery trucks and the occasional pickup or conventional auto?


GM, Ford, and Chrysler have developed dual-fuel (natural gas and gasoline) versions of their 1/2-ton pickups. Honda has sold a dedicated CNG vehicle called the Civic GX for many years. The technology exists to put natural gas fuel systems on many different models of cars, but nobody has stepped up to develop a system that the DIY'er can put on in a few days.


in this country.
LP Gas kits are available in the UK, but over here the regulatory red tape has been to thick.
same reason you don't see many e85/Flex Fuel conversion kits.
 
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