Vinyl and Rubber Protectant - Active Ingredients
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It's not one person out of 300 million. Mike-in-Orange the Meguiar's rep even admits silicone protectants are pretty much interchangeable save for their gloss levels, and the chemists who devise these types of protectants already know they're the same.
And they may not even link it, but a whole lot of electricians and car mechanics know 100% silicone sprays will protect rubber seals extremely well but don't make the connection that Armor All is basically just a water diluted silicone spray. Saying I'm the only person who has secret knowledge is ridiculous. Go on all the detailing forums. There's always several people who are usually old timers and who swear by Armor All and have enough years of experience using it to know it works, now I'm not saying Armor All is the absolute best, I'm saying it's the best value for what it does, heck if ZEP brand protectant were cheaper by the gallon I'd recommend it. But they're usually flamed by people who really really want to believe their particular brand is the best of the best of the absolute best and merely bringing a competitor's bottle nearby will crack their precious plastic. Take your pick I've seen people claim Meguiar's is the only brand that knows how to formulate plastic protectant, some say Aerospace 303, some say Vinylex, some say 1Z, etc. And it seems the more niche the product is the more fervent the flaming.
It's hard to keep a simple chemical formula secret. Heck it's tough keeping complex formulas like prescription drugs and even hydraulic fracking fluid secret. And fracking fluid is kept under some serious trade patent secrets and yet the formulas make their way out and in this case in the news. It's very easy to reverse engineer the chemistry of complex drugs. It's why there's a whole generic prescription market. So I have a hard time believing a generic silicone spray has some top secret ultra expensive so much better than everyone else ingredient that's simultaneously allowing less silicone to be used and providing more protection (that in my experience washes away more easily) but isn't listing it in the MSDS because it's so top secret they won't even admit it exists as a trade secret, as is the norm, and that no other big company like Meguiar's or Armor All or Turtle Wax can reverse engineer and produce it vastly less expensively with huge economies of scale and simply undercut them. In that case even if I were 1 in 300 million, my above scenario would still be more unbelievable than 1 person in the whole country knowing Aerospace 303 is just watered down silicone and no one else in the country knows how to make a decent plastic protectant.
I take it you buy only name brand prescription drugs? You know the generics are just as good. Same with something as chemically simple as a plastic protectant. It's just silicone.
And they may not even link it, but a whole lot of electricians and car mechanics know 100% silicone sprays will protect rubber seals extremely well but don't make the connection that Armor All is basically just a water diluted silicone spray. Saying I'm the only person who has secret knowledge is ridiculous. Go on all the detailing forums. There's always several people who are usually old timers and who swear by Armor All and have enough years of experience using it to know it works, now I'm not saying Armor All is the absolute best, I'm saying it's the best value for what it does, heck if ZEP brand protectant were cheaper by the gallon I'd recommend it. But they're usually flamed by people who really really want to believe their particular brand is the best of the best of the absolute best and merely bringing a competitor's bottle nearby will crack their precious plastic. Take your pick I've seen people claim Meguiar's is the only brand that knows how to formulate plastic protectant, some say Aerospace 303, some say Vinylex, some say 1Z, etc. And it seems the more niche the product is the more fervent the flaming.
It's hard to keep a simple chemical formula secret. Heck it's tough keeping complex formulas like prescription drugs and even hydraulic fracking fluid secret. And fracking fluid is kept under some serious trade patent secrets and yet the formulas make their way out and in this case in the news. It's very easy to reverse engineer the chemistry of complex drugs. It's why there's a whole generic prescription market. So I have a hard time believing a generic silicone spray has some top secret ultra expensive so much better than everyone else ingredient that's simultaneously allowing less silicone to be used and providing more protection (that in my experience washes away more easily) but isn't listing it in the MSDS because it's so top secret they won't even admit it exists as a trade secret, as is the norm, and that no other big company like Meguiar's or Armor All or Turtle Wax can reverse engineer and produce it vastly less expensively with huge economies of scale and simply undercut them. In that case even if I were 1 in 300 million, my above scenario would still be more unbelievable than 1 person in the whole country knowing Aerospace 303 is just watered down silicone and no one else in the country knows how to make a decent plastic protectant.
I take it you buy only name brand prescription drugs? You know the generics are just as good. Same with something as chemically simple as a plastic protectant. It's just silicone.
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As for seeing if Armor All causes damage. No it won't unless the plastic was already damaged to being with. If it were really so bad, that it caused damage like they said you'd definitely know it and they'd likely recall the stuff.
Apply protectant before damage occurs and clean and apply the protectant periodically. Your plastic won't go bad. Mine never did with just either diluted Armor All or Applying Armor All with a damp rag and buffing it. This way you don't get overly shiny plastic and your bottle of protectant will last more applications.
I don't really have different protectants for interior or exterior. It's just Armor All and even then after switching to homemade rinseless washes my plastic trim always looks freshly cleaned and treated with every rinseless wash that I don't end up treating the plastics with separate protectant step.
I suppose you can get some of the extreme shine gels for exterior trim if you want that look.
Apply protectant before damage occurs and clean and apply the protectant periodically. Your plastic won't go bad. Mine never did with just either diluted Armor All or Applying Armor All with a damp rag and buffing it. This way you don't get overly shiny plastic and your bottle of protectant will last more applications.
I don't really have different protectants for interior or exterior. It's just Armor All and even then after switching to homemade rinseless washes my plastic trim always looks freshly cleaned and treated with every rinseless wash that I don't end up treating the plastics with separate protectant step.
I suppose you can get some of the extreme shine gels for exterior trim if you want that look.
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At one time in the past, was the Armor All formulation detrimental to plastic? Or, is this a myth also?
I have to admit that it is VERY difficult get past successful marketing and old myths. Even when convinced otherwise, there is a little voice inside saying "this can't be correct".
Another product line that shares similar vagueness are fuel stabilizers. Anecdotal stories are about all we have to rely on. Many of these products are 90%+ mineral spirits with the remaining portion proprietary.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm (almost) convinced.
I have to admit that it is VERY difficult get past successful marketing and old myths. Even when convinced otherwise, there is a little voice inside saying "this can't be correct".
Another product line that shares similar vagueness are fuel stabilizers. Anecdotal stories are about all we have to rely on. Many of these products are 90%+ mineral spirits with the remaining portion proprietary.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm (almost) convinced.
Originally Posted By: qwertydude
It's not one person out of 300 million. Mike-in-Orange the Meguiar's rep even admits silicone protectants are pretty much interchangeable save for their gloss levels, and the chemists who devise these types of protectants already know they're the same.
And they may not even link it, but a whole lot of electricians and car mechanics know 100% silicone sprays will protect rubber seals extremely well but don't make the connection that Armor All is basically just a water diluted silicone spray. Saying I'm the only person who has secret knowledge is ridiculous. Go on all the detailing forums. There's always several people who are usually old timers and who swear by Armor All and have enough years of experience using it to know it works, now I'm not saying Armor All is the absolute best, I'm saying it's the best value for what it does, heck if ZEP brand protectant were cheaper by the gallon I'd recommend it. But they're usually flamed by people who really really want to believe their particular brand is the best of the best of the absolute best and merely bringing a competitor's bottle nearby will crack their precious plastic. Take your pick I've seen people claim Meguiar's is the only brand that knows how to formulate plastic protectant, some say Aerospace 303, some say Vinylex, some say 1Z, etc. And it seems the more niche the product is the more fervent the flaming.
It's hard to keep a simple chemical formula secret. Heck it's tough keeping complex formulas like prescription drugs and even hydraulic fracking fluid secret. And fracking fluid is kept under some serious trade patent secrets and yet the formulas make their way out and in this case in the news. It's very easy to reverse engineer the chemistry of complex drugs. It's why there's a whole generic prescription market. So I have a hard time believing a generic silicone spray has some top secret ultra expensive so much better than everyone else ingredient that's simultaneously allowing less silicone to be used and providing more protection (that in my experience washes away more easily) but isn't listing it in the MSDS because it's so top secret they won't even admit it exists as a trade secret, as is the norm, and that no other big company like Meguiar's or Armor All or Turtle Wax can reverse engineer and produce it vastly less expensively with huge economies of scale and simply undercut them. In that case even if I were 1 in 300 million, my above scenario would still be more unbelievable than 1 person in the whole country knowing Aerospace 303 is just watered down silicone and no one else in the country knows how to make a decent plastic protectant.
I take it you buy only name brand prescription drugs? You know the generics are just as good. Same with something as chemically simple as a plastic protectant. It's just silicone.
Hey, I said I'd try it based solely on your recommendation, I can't do much more than that
So when I add the water, do I just shake it up ? Are there any other steps ?
It's not one person out of 300 million. Mike-in-Orange the Meguiar's rep even admits silicone protectants are pretty much interchangeable save for their gloss levels, and the chemists who devise these types of protectants already know they're the same.
And they may not even link it, but a whole lot of electricians and car mechanics know 100% silicone sprays will protect rubber seals extremely well but don't make the connection that Armor All is basically just a water diluted silicone spray. Saying I'm the only person who has secret knowledge is ridiculous. Go on all the detailing forums. There's always several people who are usually old timers and who swear by Armor All and have enough years of experience using it to know it works, now I'm not saying Armor All is the absolute best, I'm saying it's the best value for what it does, heck if ZEP brand protectant were cheaper by the gallon I'd recommend it. But they're usually flamed by people who really really want to believe their particular brand is the best of the best of the absolute best and merely bringing a competitor's bottle nearby will crack their precious plastic. Take your pick I've seen people claim Meguiar's is the only brand that knows how to formulate plastic protectant, some say Aerospace 303, some say Vinylex, some say 1Z, etc. And it seems the more niche the product is the more fervent the flaming.
It's hard to keep a simple chemical formula secret. Heck it's tough keeping complex formulas like prescription drugs and even hydraulic fracking fluid secret. And fracking fluid is kept under some serious trade patent secrets and yet the formulas make their way out and in this case in the news. It's very easy to reverse engineer the chemistry of complex drugs. It's why there's a whole generic prescription market. So I have a hard time believing a generic silicone spray has some top secret ultra expensive so much better than everyone else ingredient that's simultaneously allowing less silicone to be used and providing more protection (that in my experience washes away more easily) but isn't listing it in the MSDS because it's so top secret they won't even admit it exists as a trade secret, as is the norm, and that no other big company like Meguiar's or Armor All or Turtle Wax can reverse engineer and produce it vastly less expensively with huge economies of scale and simply undercut them. In that case even if I were 1 in 300 million, my above scenario would still be more unbelievable than 1 person in the whole country knowing Aerospace 303 is just watered down silicone and no one else in the country knows how to make a decent plastic protectant.
I take it you buy only name brand prescription drugs? You know the generics are just as good. Same with something as chemically simple as a plastic protectant. It's just silicone.
Hey, I said I'd try it based solely on your recommendation, I can't do much more than that
So when I add the water, do I just shake it up ? Are there any other steps ?
Yup just add the water shake it up and it's good to go. It doesn't separate because the Armor All is already at the right concentration between silicone and surfactant.
You'll find it replicates the Aerospace 303 experience almost exactly. Applies wet and "disappears" into the plastic and leaves a completely matte finish with only slight darkening.
You'll find it replicates the Aerospace 303 experience almost exactly. Applies wet and "disappears" into the plastic and leaves a completely matte finish with only slight darkening.
JHZR2
Staff member
Good discussion, but again, how do you deal with the likes of vinylex and zaino, which claim there is a uv inhibitor besides the silicone content?
What about the mets stuff, where some of the trace component can be seen in the patent literature as playing in uv resistance claims?
What about the mets stuff, where some of the trace component can be seen in the patent literature as playing in uv resistance claims?
I think more than anything all these "patented" protectants don't do as much as simply the silicone itself since 100% silicone spray protects plastic and vinyl about as well. Perhaps all the patent literature made for these very generic sprays is just to have "patented" on the package and to be able to sue anyone who tries to replicate it from reverse engineering, they get the ingredients, and when they try to sell it with the secret ingredient out come the lawyers.
Because it can't be some sort of conspiracy, even this generic protectant both claims UV protection and again, nothing but silicone and surfactant, plus perfume. But that plays out true over and over again with multiple products.
http://www.crcindustries.com.au/assets/files/msds/liquid-armour-protectant-5022-msds.pdf
So like I said all the easy and GRAS UV absorbers that don't need to be listed in the MSDS obviously aren't in the protectants or it'd be easy to find using the evaporation test. And any of the high tech transparent ones would have to be listed.
I'm thinking more and more that it's simply the physical effect silicone has sitting on top of the plastic that lends its "UV protection"
Because it can't be some sort of conspiracy, even this generic protectant both claims UV protection and again, nothing but silicone and surfactant, plus perfume. But that plays out true over and over again with multiple products.
http://www.crcindustries.com.au/assets/files/msds/liquid-armour-protectant-5022-msds.pdf
So like I said all the easy and GRAS UV absorbers that don't need to be listed in the MSDS obviously aren't in the protectants or it'd be easy to find using the evaporation test. And any of the high tech transparent ones would have to be listed.
I'm thinking more and more that it's simply the physical effect silicone has sitting on top of the plastic that lends its "UV protection"
And just to show another one. This 3M protectant shows a lot more detail compared to any other one. And again really besides the cleaning agents, nothing but siloxane based compounds. And perhaps those fancy silicone based SILSESQUIOXANES. Which if I'm looking at the atomic structures and proposed uses correctly seem to just be in there to prevent static buildup. Smart of 3M to do that, that way it won't attract more dust.
https://www.tapplastics.com/uploads/pdf/MSDS_Marine_Vinyl_Cleaner.pdf
So I think as I read more and more into it, it's really just gotta be the silicones doing all the protection. Hey and even in the description it protects from oxygen, ozone, and ultraviolet rays. A very similar explanation like I proposed was my theory of what an inert silicone oil layer ought to do based on my knowledge of chemistry and physics.
https://www.tapplastics.com/uploads/pdf/MSDS_Marine_Vinyl_Cleaner.pdf
So I think as I read more and more into it, it's really just gotta be the silicones doing all the protection. Hey and even in the description it protects from oxygen, ozone, and ultraviolet rays. A very similar explanation like I proposed was my theory of what an inert silicone oil layer ought to do based on my knowledge of chemistry and physics.
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Here's another for you: Meguiar's #40 Vinyl & Rubber Cleaner/Conditioner:
Water, Poly(Dimethylsiloxane), Alcohol Ethoxylates, trade secret, Pentapotassium triphosphate, Trisodium phosphate, Conditioners, trade secret, propylene glycol. --- From the bottle label.
I left out the 7732-18-5, 63148,62-9 and 57-55-6, etc....
Water, Poly(Dimethylsiloxane), Alcohol Ethoxylates, trade secret, Pentapotassium triphosphate, Trisodium phosphate, Conditioners, trade secret, propylene glycol. --- From the bottle label.
I left out the 7732-18-5, 63148,62-9 and 57-55-6, etc....
What is in the back to black products?
Originally Posted By: qwertydude
Yup just add the water shake it up and it's good to go. It doesn't separate because the Armor All is already at the right concentration between silicone and surfactant.
You'll find it replicates the Aerospace 303 experience almost exactly. Applies wet and "disappears" into the plastic and leaves a completely matte finish with only slight darkening.
What 303 "experience"? Good or bad, the stuff might as well be distilled water for what it does to the appearance of the plastic. I do notice that it has a very narrow storage range: between 30 and 90 degrees.
The manufacturers have gotten a lot better about using durable plastic in cars. Its really difficult to know what works and what doesn't If there are any Arizonans on the board with more than say 7 year's eperience with a product, I would be interested in hearing from them.
Yup just add the water shake it up and it's good to go. It doesn't separate because the Armor All is already at the right concentration between silicone and surfactant.
You'll find it replicates the Aerospace 303 experience almost exactly. Applies wet and "disappears" into the plastic and leaves a completely matte finish with only slight darkening.
What 303 "experience"? Good or bad, the stuff might as well be distilled water for what it does to the appearance of the plastic. I do notice that it has a very narrow storage range: between 30 and 90 degrees.
The manufacturers have gotten a lot better about using durable plastic in cars. Its really difficult to know what works and what doesn't If there are any Arizonans on the board with more than say 7 year's eperience with a product, I would be interested in hearing from them.
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