Beware of Chinese Craftsman wrenches
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I believe Trav has very valid points.
Originally Posted By: jcwit
I believe Trav has very valid points.
You may choose to be influenced by someone who has displayed hateful tendencies. I choose not to be.
It is not possible for someone afflicted with a phobia to approach a conversation in good faith. He may have valid points, but I can't trust them because they're not coming from a place of intellectual honesty, they're coming from a place that sees immigrants as "unwashed, TB infested, uneducated." He's only going to present information that confirms that bias, and he's going to ignore information that suggests otherwise.
My choice to disengage in that specific conversation is not a copout, because there is no other way to handle the situation. He's casually dehumanizing millions of people, how do you possibly respond to that?
I believe Trav has very valid points.
You may choose to be influenced by someone who has displayed hateful tendencies. I choose not to be.
It is not possible for someone afflicted with a phobia to approach a conversation in good faith. He may have valid points, but I can't trust them because they're not coming from a place of intellectual honesty, they're coming from a place that sees immigrants as "unwashed, TB infested, uneducated." He's only going to present information that confirms that bias, and he's going to ignore information that suggests otherwise.
My choice to disengage in that specific conversation is not a copout, because there is no other way to handle the situation. He's casually dehumanizing millions of people, how do you possibly respond to that?
Totally off topic, but have you read the news as to the condition of these people coming across our boarder is, no matter their age.
Does not sound good to me.
Seeing what they are on TV is frightening to our security and way of life to say the least.
Let's get this back to Craftsman tools.
Does not sound good to me.
Seeing what they are on TV is frightening to our security and way of life to say the least.
Let's get this back to Craftsman tools.
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Totally off topic, but have you read the news as to the condition of these people coming across our boarder is, no matter their age.
Does not sound good to me.
Seeing what they are on TV is frightening to our security and way of life to say the least.
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Let's get this back to Craftsman tools.
I like my Craftsman tools. They work great.
Totally off topic, but have you read the news as to the condition of these people coming across our boarder is, no matter their age.
Does not sound good to me.
Seeing what they are on TV is frightening to our security and way of life to say the least.
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Let's get this back to Craftsman tools.
I like my Craftsman tools. They work great.
Yes I know where that's from, but then do it legally. I believe the illegal part is what has most Americans upset.
I to like my few Craftsman tools. Most of mine are S & K tho.
I to like my few Craftsman tools. Most of mine are S & K tho.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Germany has proven that every industry is important and not every student can or should be a college grad, you need industry to provide jobs for everyone.
Yep. For some reason we waste billions getting kids that have no desire to go to college, ready to go to college. We could have used the money to teach a trade.
Germany has proven that every industry is important and not every student can or should be a college grad, you need industry to provide jobs for everyone.
Yep. For some reason we waste billions getting kids that have no desire to go to college, ready to go to college. We could have used the money to teach a trade.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Do I care about days gone by where americans built hand tools?
Some of us do.
Indeed.
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Do I care about days gone by where americans built hand tools?
Some of us do.
Indeed.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: Trav
America is catering to the worlds unwashed, TB infected, uneducated masses
We're done here. You clearly have some pretty serious hate issues and I'm not interested in being the guy who tries to talk through that. Your xenophobia is driving what you see here, not actual data, so nothing I share with you is going to make a difference.
Have a nice day.
Note that the companies you mention in your link aren't Chinese. Germany (Siemens) certainly isn't the US's biggest import partner. So while yes, foreign entities are indeed investing in the US for manufacturing, the bulk of the imports of these products come from China, ergo, it isn't a reciprocal thing here. The US exports manufacturing to China and a few other first-worlders export manufacturing to the US. That's hardly the "world going round", nor is it a proper feedback system/mechanism.
Originally Posted By: Trav
America is catering to the worlds unwashed, TB infected, uneducated masses
We're done here. You clearly have some pretty serious hate issues and I'm not interested in being the guy who tries to talk through that. Your xenophobia is driving what you see here, not actual data, so nothing I share with you is going to make a difference.
Have a nice day.
Note that the companies you mention in your link aren't Chinese. Germany (Siemens) certainly isn't the US's biggest import partner. So while yes, foreign entities are indeed investing in the US for manufacturing, the bulk of the imports of these products come from China, ergo, it isn't a reciprocal thing here. The US exports manufacturing to China and a few other first-worlders export manufacturing to the US. That's hardly the "world going round", nor is it a proper feedback system/mechanism.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: Trav
Germany has proven that every industry is important and not every student can or should be a college grad, you need industry to provide jobs for everyone.
Yep. For some reason we waste billions getting kids that have no desire to go to college, ready to go to college. We could have used the money to teach a trade.
Bingo!
Originally Posted By: Trav
Germany has proven that every industry is important and not every student can or should be a college grad, you need industry to provide jobs for everyone.
Yep. For some reason we waste billions getting kids that have no desire to go to college, ready to go to college. We could have used the money to teach a trade.
Bingo!
Originally Posted By: Mykl
You may choose to be influenced by someone who has displayed hateful tendencies. I choose not to be.
It is not possible for someone afflicted with a phobia to approach a conversation in good faith. He may have valid points, but I can't trust them because they're not coming from a place of intellectual honesty, they're coming from a place that sees immigrants as "unwashed, TB infested, uneducated." He's only going to present information that confirms that bias, and he's going to ignore information that suggests otherwise.
My choice to disengage in that specific conversation is not a copout, because there is no other way to handle the situation. He's casually dehumanizing millions of people, how do you possibly respond to that?
I have no hateful tendencies towards immigrants or anyone else, i am one! I could care less what you like, don't like, trust or not.
These are not immigrants but criminals looking to feed of the hard worked sweat of good honest Americans. Parasites and worse looking for a free ride nothing more or less.
Call it for what it really is for God sake. You talk about intellectual honesty well start getting honest instead of spewing that tripe.
You complained i didn't address you like a grown man, start acting like one instead of some sort of recent grad kid with his knickers in a twist.
My parents came to the USA August 1 1968.
We had to go through a lot to get here, my dad needed a sponsor, a job, we all to to go through medical screening twice.
The fact that we spoke English helped in their decision, the boys speak very well it was said.
My father was given a paper to sign saying he could never collect unemployment, be unemployed, go on welfare or take any sort of public assistance, he signed it and stood by it until his death.
Every Jan we all had to fill in a form at the Post Office that had our current information on it, that ended somewhere in the late 70's
I went to school in English from day 1 and did well, i never asked for a translator, i worked hard to have a neutral American accent and overcome stuttering when i spoke.
No special needs to additional assistance, no free ride.
My parents became Citizens 8 months after my 16th birthday so i was not included, i kept a green card.
Right out of trade high school i enlisted in the USMC, i had a great time and got an education. Unfortunately they stopped giving automatic citizenship as they had done all the way up to the Vietnam war.
The only benefit i got in that regard was they would forgo the test but still wanted the (even then) substantial fee.
I wasn't paying so a little disgruntled and PO'd i went back to Germany on vacation, met my wife and didn't came back till 2005.
My trade school mechanics and schooling wasn't good enough so i started learning under a really fine Master (and still a close friend) and going to school at night.
I was in my early twenties, the rest is history as they say but i know a lot about both cultures because i live in them.
My Green card lapsed a few times and they were not going to let me back in, only as a visitor. The guy at the INS was a brother Marine and with no words and a handshake i was back.
Don't you dare call me anti or hateful anything!
I am German with a German Passport and a Green card but i served this country, pay taxes and have as much right as anyone to live here.
I Earned that right and thats the difference between legal, controlled immigration and illegal border jumping by criminals.
Enough of my not very interesting life story back to arguing about cheap tools.
You may choose to be influenced by someone who has displayed hateful tendencies. I choose not to be.
It is not possible for someone afflicted with a phobia to approach a conversation in good faith. He may have valid points, but I can't trust them because they're not coming from a place of intellectual honesty, they're coming from a place that sees immigrants as "unwashed, TB infested, uneducated." He's only going to present information that confirms that bias, and he's going to ignore information that suggests otherwise.
My choice to disengage in that specific conversation is not a copout, because there is no other way to handle the situation. He's casually dehumanizing millions of people, how do you possibly respond to that?
I have no hateful tendencies towards immigrants or anyone else, i am one! I could care less what you like, don't like, trust or not.
These are not immigrants but criminals looking to feed of the hard worked sweat of good honest Americans. Parasites and worse looking for a free ride nothing more or less.
Call it for what it really is for God sake. You talk about intellectual honesty well start getting honest instead of spewing that tripe.
You complained i didn't address you like a grown man, start acting like one instead of some sort of recent grad kid with his knickers in a twist.
My parents came to the USA August 1 1968.
We had to go through a lot to get here, my dad needed a sponsor, a job, we all to to go through medical screening twice.
The fact that we spoke English helped in their decision, the boys speak very well it was said.
My father was given a paper to sign saying he could never collect unemployment, be unemployed, go on welfare or take any sort of public assistance, he signed it and stood by it until his death.
Every Jan we all had to fill in a form at the Post Office that had our current information on it, that ended somewhere in the late 70's
I went to school in English from day 1 and did well, i never asked for a translator, i worked hard to have a neutral American accent and overcome stuttering when i spoke.
No special needs to additional assistance, no free ride.
My parents became Citizens 8 months after my 16th birthday so i was not included, i kept a green card.
Right out of trade high school i enlisted in the USMC, i had a great time and got an education. Unfortunately they stopped giving automatic citizenship as they had done all the way up to the Vietnam war.
The only benefit i got in that regard was they would forgo the test but still wanted the (even then) substantial fee.
I wasn't paying so a little disgruntled and PO'd i went back to Germany on vacation, met my wife and didn't came back till 2005.
My trade school mechanics and schooling wasn't good enough so i started learning under a really fine Master (and still a close friend) and going to school at night.
I was in my early twenties, the rest is history as they say but i know a lot about both cultures because i live in them.
My Green card lapsed a few times and they were not going to let me back in, only as a visitor. The guy at the INS was a brother Marine and with no words and a handshake i was back.
Don't you dare call me anti or hateful anything!
I am German with a German Passport and a Green card but i served this country, pay taxes and have as much right as anyone to live here.
I Earned that right and thats the difference between legal, controlled immigration and illegal border jumping by criminals.
Enough of my not very interesting life story back to arguing about cheap tools.
Trav, we may disagree with tools and their country of origin.
But I applaud you and Salute you and welcome you.
Hey, at my age we won't argue about tools for very many years.lol
But I applaud you and Salute you and welcome you.
Hey, at my age we won't argue about tools for very many years.lol
I too agree with Trav. That is coming from someone who is an immigrant who chose the legal process. He earned what is his and came here expecting nothing.
Back to the task at hand.
Nothing wrong with HF or other Chinese tools, but as mentioned earlier, its sad when Craftsman is charging American prices for HF tools. I have my USA Craftsman set and I am very happy. I have gone to using my expendable Chinese set to keep my USA made ones nice.
Back to the task at hand.
Nothing wrong with HF or other Chinese tools, but as mentioned earlier, its sad when Craftsman is charging American prices for HF tools. I have my USA Craftsman set and I am very happy. I have gone to using my expendable Chinese set to keep my USA made ones nice.
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Trav, we may disagree with tools and their country of origin.
But I applaud you and Salute you and welcome you.
Hey, at my age we won't argue about tools for very many years.lol
Thanks JC. Your right i am no spring chicken either, any one of us could be gone tomorrow.
We can disagree all day but it doesn't amount to anything personal. Just a different point of view nothing more.
I argue with friends and family all the time. LOL
Trav, we may disagree with tools and their country of origin.
But I applaud you and Salute you and welcome you.
Hey, at my age we won't argue about tools for very many years.lol
Thanks JC. Your right i am no spring chicken either, any one of us could be gone tomorrow.
We can disagree all day but it doesn't amount to anything personal. Just a different point of view nothing more.
I argue with friends and family all the time. LOL
The other day, I had a chance to look at a set of Chinese Craftsman combo wrenches vs a US made combo wrench of the same size. At a glance, they look the same, but the Chinese wrenches were considerably thicker and had thicker heads by about 3/32" more for a 5/8" wrench. This tells me they use an inferior metal and thicken it up to achieve the same or similar strength.
Originally Posted By: Michael_P
The other day, I had a chance to look at a set of Chinese Craftsman combo wrenches vs a US made combo wrench of the same size. At a glance, they look the same, but the Chinese wrenches were considerably thicker and had thicker heads by about 3/32" more for a 5/8" wrench. This tells me they use an inferior metal and thicken it up to achieve the same or similar strength.
No way to actually know that unless you actually know the meteralogy of what was used and have a Rockwell tester.
Otherwise you are only surmising.
The other day, I had a chance to look at a set of Chinese Craftsman combo wrenches vs a US made combo wrench of the same size. At a glance, they look the same, but the Chinese wrenches were considerably thicker and had thicker heads by about 3/32" more for a 5/8" wrench. This tells me they use an inferior metal and thicken it up to achieve the same or similar strength.
No way to actually know that unless you actually know the meteralogy of what was used and have a Rockwell tester.
Otherwise you are only surmising.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: jcwit
I believe Trav has very valid points.
You may choose to be influenced by someone who has displayed hateful tendencies. I choose not to be.
Cop out is the right term. Its sure easy to use the concept of racism/xenophobia/hate because the discussion focuses upon a group whose skin color is different from the (current) majority in this country.
Besides the fact that there are tons of people and first generation US-born folks here who did hve the basis of the correct, legal procedure, language, etc, why shouldnt they be peturbed over the situation as it stands now?
But without going political, this discussion goes far beyond immigration. I dont like the dumped Chinese/Mexican/Vietnamese/Indian/_______ stuff. Does it mean I hate Chinese people? Of course not - no hatred, fear, etc. In fact, a number of my close friends are Chinese, and we even have Chinese-born people in our family. I have close relationships with folks of various ethnicities in fact.
But we live here, pay taxes here, and have neighbors and friends who work here and do the same. So on top of any quality argument, the entire discussion of keeping the growing population (forget the folks illegally coming through the borders who will indeed be competing for jobs, resources, handouts, etc) employed, versus offshoring work of all kinds to other countries is extremely valid. We pay for it one way or another.
I get it that its tempting to save a buck, but it is indeed killing local capability and jobs by a million paper cuts. Its not a class war thing, but businesses will move to make money. Look at the Walgreens example, and it is so true in manufacturing. Were not going there because it will become blatantly political, but at the 10000 ft level, can you blame them? Blame them for canning your neighbor's job and employing someone a half-planet away to do it? Someone is profiting. Chances are it isnt you nor I, because even the little dividend bump I may get when company __'s profit increases will never make me truly wealthy, yet you can be sure that my societal costs will increase. The only ammunition we have are the greenbacks in our pocket. I get it that its convenient and feels good to buy the cheapo item versus the US made stuff, quality similar or vastly different. But there are indeed ramifications, and they will only get worse with the very understandable dynamics of the popualtion that are going on right now.
Keep the cop out argument of hatred out of it when discussing things that are truly illegal and against the construct of our sovereign state. Particularly when discussing with folks who are or are closely tied to direct, legal immigrants. Manufacturing is the life blood of our nation, and we must protect it however, especially given the massive influx of new (illegal) immigrants, and the finite resources of all kinds that we all face. Whomever remains after all of this cycles through, will need the enabler that provides them the opportunity at the American dream. Manufacturing is indeed how one ensures that there is a thriving, value-creating, high-opportunity society, as it is indeed one of the key pilliars and a key way that folks can create something for themselves. Whether it supports Joe down the street whose ancestors were on the Mayflower, or Jose who just got a green card yesterday, without manufacturing here, we are creating more issues for ourselves and robbing everyone of opportunity.
Originally Posted By: jcwit
I believe Trav has very valid points.
You may choose to be influenced by someone who has displayed hateful tendencies. I choose not to be.
Cop out is the right term. Its sure easy to use the concept of racism/xenophobia/hate because the discussion focuses upon a group whose skin color is different from the (current) majority in this country.
Besides the fact that there are tons of people and first generation US-born folks here who did hve the basis of the correct, legal procedure, language, etc, why shouldnt they be peturbed over the situation as it stands now?
But without going political, this discussion goes far beyond immigration. I dont like the dumped Chinese/Mexican/Vietnamese/Indian/_______ stuff. Does it mean I hate Chinese people? Of course not - no hatred, fear, etc. In fact, a number of my close friends are Chinese, and we even have Chinese-born people in our family. I have close relationships with folks of various ethnicities in fact.
But we live here, pay taxes here, and have neighbors and friends who work here and do the same. So on top of any quality argument, the entire discussion of keeping the growing population (forget the folks illegally coming through the borders who will indeed be competing for jobs, resources, handouts, etc) employed, versus offshoring work of all kinds to other countries is extremely valid. We pay for it one way or another.
I get it that its tempting to save a buck, but it is indeed killing local capability and jobs by a million paper cuts. Its not a class war thing, but businesses will move to make money. Look at the Walgreens example, and it is so true in manufacturing. Were not going there because it will become blatantly political, but at the 10000 ft level, can you blame them? Blame them for canning your neighbor's job and employing someone a half-planet away to do it? Someone is profiting. Chances are it isnt you nor I, because even the little dividend bump I may get when company __'s profit increases will never make me truly wealthy, yet you can be sure that my societal costs will increase. The only ammunition we have are the greenbacks in our pocket. I get it that its convenient and feels good to buy the cheapo item versus the US made stuff, quality similar or vastly different. But there are indeed ramifications, and they will only get worse with the very understandable dynamics of the popualtion that are going on right now.
Keep the cop out argument of hatred out of it when discussing things that are truly illegal and against the construct of our sovereign state. Particularly when discussing with folks who are or are closely tied to direct, legal immigrants. Manufacturing is the life blood of our nation, and we must protect it however, especially given the massive influx of new (illegal) immigrants, and the finite resources of all kinds that we all face. Whomever remains after all of this cycles through, will need the enabler that provides them the opportunity at the American dream. Manufacturing is indeed how one ensures that there is a thriving, value-creating, high-opportunity society, as it is indeed one of the key pilliars and a key way that folks can create something for themselves. Whether it supports Joe down the street whose ancestors were on the Mayflower, or Jose who just got a green card yesterday, without manufacturing here, we are creating more issues for ourselves and robbing everyone of opportunity.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Chinese wrenches just can't get a break! If the wrench was thinner, the same guy would have complained about the thin metal!! And you can bet on it.
Probably. Because the wrench would still be junk.
Common sense tells you that you wouldn't add bulk to an existing decades old proven design unless you had to. Especially to a wrench that's never been known as weak or slender.
Here are some side by sides. Garage Journal
Chinese wrenches just can't get a break! If the wrench was thinner, the same guy would have complained about the thin metal!! And you can bet on it.
Probably. Because the wrench would still be junk.
Common sense tells you that you wouldn't add bulk to an existing decades old proven design unless you had to. Especially to a wrench that's never been known as weak or slender.
Here are some side by sides. Garage Journal
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Cop out is the right term. Its sure easy to use the concept of racism/xenophobia/hate because the discussion focuses upon a group whose skin color is different from the (current) majority in this country.
Besides the fact that there are tons of people and first generation US-born folks here who did hve the basis of the correct, legal procedure, language, etc, why shouldnt they be peturbed over the situation as it stands now?
But without going political, this discussion goes far beyond immigration. I dont like the dumped Chinese/Mexican/Vietnamese/Indian/_______ stuff. Does it mean I hate Chinese people? Of course not - no hatred, fear, etc. In fact, a number of my close friends are Chinese, and we even have Chinese-born people in our family. I have close relationships with folks of various ethnicities in fact.
But we live here, pay taxes here, and have neighbors and friends who work here and do the same. So on top of any quality argument, the entire discussion of keeping the growing population (forget the folks illegally coming through the borders who will indeed be competing for jobs, resources, handouts, etc) employed, versus offshoring work of all kinds to other countries is extremely valid. We pay for it one way or another.
I get it that its tempting to save a buck, but it is indeed killing local capability and jobs by a million paper cuts. Its not a class war thing, but businesses will move to make money. Look at the Walgreens example, and it is so true in manufacturing. Were not going there because it will become blatantly political, but at the 10000 ft level, can you blame them? Blame them for canning your neighbor's job and employing someone a half-planet away to do it? Someone is profiting. Chances are it isnt you nor I, because even the little dividend bump I may get when company __'s profit increases will never make me truly wealthy, yet you can be sure that my societal costs will increase. The only ammunition we have are the greenbacks in our pocket. I get it that its convenient and feels good to buy the cheapo item versus the US made stuff, quality similar or vastly different. But there are indeed ramifications, and they will only get worse with the very understandable dynamics of the popualtion that are going on right now.
Keep the cop out argument of hatred out of it when discussing things that are truly illegal and against the construct of our sovereign state. Particularly when discussing with folks who are or are closely tied to direct, legal immigrants. Manufacturing is the life blood of our nation, and we must protect it however, especially given the massive influx of new (illegal) immigrants, and the finite resources of all kinds that we all face. Whomever remains after all of this cycles through, will need the enabler that provides them the opportunity at the American dream. Manufacturing is indeed how one ensures that there is a thriving, value-creating, high-opportunity society, as it is indeed one of the key pilliars and a key way that folks can create something for themselves. Whether it supports Joe down the street whose ancestors were on the Mayflower, or Jose who just got a green card yesterday, without manufacturing here, we are creating more issues for ourselves and robbing everyone of opportunity.
Originally Posted By: Trav
America is catering to the worlds unwashed, TB infected, uneducated masses
I'm stunned that a moderator on this board, someone who agreed to enforce a basic set of rules, would not only look past this, but actually defend the person. That statement that I quoted is either xenophobic, or racist... or both.
I know that you and Trav are buddies, but this thread devolved into politics and you're choosing to let it continue, rather than lock it (as per forum rules), because you have a personal interest in pushing your opinion on the subject.
Cop out is the right term. Its sure easy to use the concept of racism/xenophobia/hate because the discussion focuses upon a group whose skin color is different from the (current) majority in this country.
Besides the fact that there are tons of people and first generation US-born folks here who did hve the basis of the correct, legal procedure, language, etc, why shouldnt they be peturbed over the situation as it stands now?
But without going political, this discussion goes far beyond immigration. I dont like the dumped Chinese/Mexican/Vietnamese/Indian/_______ stuff. Does it mean I hate Chinese people? Of course not - no hatred, fear, etc. In fact, a number of my close friends are Chinese, and we even have Chinese-born people in our family. I have close relationships with folks of various ethnicities in fact.
But we live here, pay taxes here, and have neighbors and friends who work here and do the same. So on top of any quality argument, the entire discussion of keeping the growing population (forget the folks illegally coming through the borders who will indeed be competing for jobs, resources, handouts, etc) employed, versus offshoring work of all kinds to other countries is extremely valid. We pay for it one way or another.
I get it that its tempting to save a buck, but it is indeed killing local capability and jobs by a million paper cuts. Its not a class war thing, but businesses will move to make money. Look at the Walgreens example, and it is so true in manufacturing. Were not going there because it will become blatantly political, but at the 10000 ft level, can you blame them? Blame them for canning your neighbor's job and employing someone a half-planet away to do it? Someone is profiting. Chances are it isnt you nor I, because even the little dividend bump I may get when company __'s profit increases will never make me truly wealthy, yet you can be sure that my societal costs will increase. The only ammunition we have are the greenbacks in our pocket. I get it that its convenient and feels good to buy the cheapo item versus the US made stuff, quality similar or vastly different. But there are indeed ramifications, and they will only get worse with the very understandable dynamics of the popualtion that are going on right now.
Keep the cop out argument of hatred out of it when discussing things that are truly illegal and against the construct of our sovereign state. Particularly when discussing with folks who are or are closely tied to direct, legal immigrants. Manufacturing is the life blood of our nation, and we must protect it however, especially given the massive influx of new (illegal) immigrants, and the finite resources of all kinds that we all face. Whomever remains after all of this cycles through, will need the enabler that provides them the opportunity at the American dream. Manufacturing is indeed how one ensures that there is a thriving, value-creating, high-opportunity society, as it is indeed one of the key pilliars and a key way that folks can create something for themselves. Whether it supports Joe down the street whose ancestors were on the Mayflower, or Jose who just got a green card yesterday, without manufacturing here, we are creating more issues for ourselves and robbing everyone of opportunity.
Originally Posted By: Trav
America is catering to the worlds unwashed, TB infected, uneducated masses
I'm stunned that a moderator on this board, someone who agreed to enforce a basic set of rules, would not only look past this, but actually defend the person. That statement that I quoted is either xenophobic, or racist... or both.
I know that you and Trav are buddies, but this thread devolved into politics and you're choosing to let it continue, rather than lock it (as per forum rules), because you have a personal interest in pushing your opinion on the subject.
- Status
