Recent Topics
2013 Accord K24W1 DI - TGMO 0W20 SN - 10064 miles
by Leonardo629
09/30/14 04:17 PM
Amsoil Saber 2-cycle oil and gas preservative?
by btanchors
09/30/14 04:01 PM
A few new Walmart oil prices
by bigt61
09/30/14 03:03 PM
cleaning combustion chamber
by james1950
09/30/14 02:48 PM
The recall merry-go-round spins again...
by 440Magnum
09/30/14 02:00 PM
When in D or O-D car won't accelerate beyond 25mph
by JasonTL
09/30/14 01:18 PM
Brand New 2012 Scag Tiger Cat ?
by lawnguy
09/30/14 12:44 PM
Kawasaki reveals most powerful motorcycle ever !
by FastGame
09/30/14 12:42 PM
Dr Dons radio repair-recommended
by Russell
09/30/14 12:31 PM
1989 Chevy 5.7 need new catalytic to pass CA smog
by zanzabar
09/30/14 12:27 PM
Heat pump for winter heating
by datech
09/30/14 12:22 PM
13 Fusion 1.6L Ecoboost, Amsoil SS 5w20, 9.7/28.5k
by jeff7181
09/30/14 12:05 PM
Newest Members
Hemingway, kcp, tgrudzin, jeff7181, JoshsCummins
51456 Registered Users
Who's Online
108 registered (1345, 95MarkVIII, 2oldtommy, 2KBMW, abycat, 1foxracing, 12 invisible), 1877 Guests and 150 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
51456 Members
64 Forums
220030 Topics
3474304 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG

Topic Options
#3438741 - 07/28/14 05:56 PM First Post- Sea Water/Lube Oil/Chemisty Question
Eric_Rydzewski Offline


Registered: 07/27/14
Posts: 4
Loc: Wilmington, NC USA
Hi all. New to site, first post. Going to be a bit long winded.

I am assisting in investigating a water/coolant intrusion event in a marine 2-stroke Detroit Diesel. Vessel was coming down the east coast and grounded on a sandbar in NC. Boat tilted and there was a chance water backed up into the engine exhaust. Boat came up with the tide and engine started without reported trouble. Boat then ran on both engines for maybe six hours and was hauled out. Boat sat in yard for about six months. Then launched and port engine would not start. Investigation found all the valve gear, injectors, rockers, etc, heavily rusted. Moisture was present under rocker covers, oil was grey from formed emulsion.

An oil sample was taken, Cat lab could not run due to high moisture content.

A second sample was heated to drive out moisture. This one showed generally normal wear metal numbers, but about 4600ppm Na, and about 180ppm K, the ratio of which is similar to that in seawater.

Lab also tested for glycol (negative) and for seawater (negative). I don't know enough about the chemistry and the lab's tests to read much into this.

I inspected the engine and did a cooling system pressure test. No leakage over a few hours at 15psi. No coolant visible in cylinders or airboxes (we were able to bar over to check this, not completely seized).

I sucked about 3qt of oil from the bottom of the oil pan. Let it settle (in clean jug) and there is about 4oz of clear aqueous solution in the bottom. I decanted a few drops and did the silver nitrate test for salt. Reaction was positive, but moderate. I got a sample of seawater and the silver nitrate reaction was much more vigorous there.

The aqueous solution does not appear to be coolant, but that is just from observation. No lab tests done on that yet, but that is likely next. Unfortunately, the Cat lab has yes/no tests for both glycol and NaCl, and in this case quantification would be nice.

The question I pose is this: So far, indications are that there is not much chloride left in the water gathered from the sump. Is it possible that if sea water got in, the six hour run churned the oil/water mix and through some chemical action scavenged some of the chlorides from the mix?

I'd expect if sea water entered the oil, running the engine would concentrate the mix and make the silver nitrate test more vigorous. That's not what we saw.

The lab tested for chlorides, test was negative. Markers were present for coolant additives (Na and K), but usually these are around 1:1 (of course, depending on coolant blend) and here Na and K are remarkably close to sea water ratio.

The reason for interest here is that the boat insurance will likely pay for damage coming from sea water intrusion due to the grounding. If the damage is from coolant entry, likely not.

Engine had some repairs done at the beginning of the trip, before the grounding, and mechanic would have noticed if water was in the lube (milkshake).

Is there a lab y'all know where I could send some samples (oil, coolant, water from sump), or at least consult? I think the Cat lab is out of their comfort zone on this.

What says the site?

Thanks,

Eric

Top
#3438757 - 07/28/14 06:13 PM Re: First Post- Sea Water/Lube Oil/Chemisty Question [Re: Eric_Rydzewski]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14552
Loc: Midwest
I would recommend trying ALS labs.
_________________________
SNAUGHFLING: Laughing so hard you snort, then laughing because you snorted, then snort because you laughed! smile

Top
#3438811 - 07/28/14 07:14 PM Re: First Post- Sea Water/Lube Oil/Chemisty Question [Re: Eric_Rydzewski]
yvon_la Offline


Registered: 05/20/14
Posts: 740
Loc: quebec canada
Sea water found its way in oil i would bet!and then got distruted elsewhere
_________________________
Truck driver
Nissan versa note s 2014
Mechanicly inclined

Top
#3439417 - 07/29/14 11:06 AM Re: First Post- Sea Water/Lube Oil/Chemisty Question [Re: MolaKule]
Eric_Rydzewski Offline


Registered: 07/27/14
Posts: 4
Loc: Wilmington, NC USA
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I would recommend trying ALS labs.


Thanks, I'll look them up.

Just to possibly entice any chemists, I'll try to rephrase the question:

So we have a Diesel in good shape, shut down. Pour lets say a pint of sea water into oil sump (7gal capacity). Start engine and run a mid power setting for approx six hours. Sump temp probably 200F. Shut down engine for six months.

So the water and oil emulsified somewhat. Chlorides in the mix. Is there anything in that process that would capture the chlorides? TBN additives maybe? Could such a process explain why the settled water found in the sump tests relatively weak for chlorides now, six months later?

Thanks.


Edited by Eric_Rydzewski (07/29/14 11:10 AM)
Edit Reason: typo

Top
#3458638 - 08/18/14 11:49 AM Re: First Post- Sea Water/Lube Oil/Chemisty Question [Re: Eric_Rydzewski]
ironman_gq Offline


Registered: 04/30/14
Posts: 129
Loc: MN
water came in through the exhaust, is it possible that the water that ended up in the sump was boiled in the exhaust and your seeing condesate that made it's way into the engine and not water that flooded the engine?

Top