hmmmm. i actually would like a 99-01 E55 , but i have not been able to find my color combo. White exteriors seem to be rare. Black/silver, even maroon i have found, just no whites.
04-06 MB E55: what should i know about them?
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Originally Posted By: WhyMe
hmmmm. i actually would like a 99-01 E55 , but i have not been able to find my color combo. White exteriors seem to be rare. Black/silver, even maroon i have found, just no whites.
I know this is not what you're after, but I was after an old-school Merc sedan that stands the test of time and wouldn't torture on reliability, I would go back at least one more generation, to the W124 platform. Well within your budget for a rock solid later one. Great cars.
For speed, look for a 500E with the lovely M119. That would be a bit more if lucky enough to stumble on one. There are not bolt-on, big HP mods like for the M113 engines, but I wouldn't care about that on such a car.
hmmmm. i actually would like a 99-01 E55 , but i have not been able to find my color combo. White exteriors seem to be rare. Black/silver, even maroon i have found, just no whites.
I know this is not what you're after, but I was after an old-school Merc sedan that stands the test of time and wouldn't torture on reliability, I would go back at least one more generation, to the W124 platform. Well within your budget for a rock solid later one. Great cars.
For speed, look for a 500E with the lovely M119. That would be a bit more if lucky enough to stumble on one. There are not bolt-on, big HP mods like for the M113 engines, but I wouldn't care about that on such a car.
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But the thing is, unless the system is abused and neglected (no fluid changes), it hardly EVER breaks.
Fluid in the retractable top mechanism needs to be flushed regularly? Don't take it the wrong way, but if I were a target buyer of that brand new high priced car, aka a sophisticated rich [censored], I would think that the manufacturer can design and build such as system without needing to do so called "blinker fluid replacement" periodic service on it.
Logically, it is NOT like brake or transmission system which has to survive high stress environment and needs to be swapped. Why could not have they used correct quality seals in the manufacturing to make it truly life time system? This system is more like the fluid inside your shock absorber. One does not expect it to be replaced during the life of shock absorber. Come to think of it, even shock absorber fluid has more sever service than the retractable top! Oops, probably wrong example, considering the current topic and its air-matic suspension
But the thing is, unless the system is abused and neglected (no fluid changes), it hardly EVER breaks.
Fluid in the retractable top mechanism needs to be flushed regularly? Don't take it the wrong way, but if I were a target buyer of that brand new high priced car, aka a sophisticated rich [censored], I would think that the manufacturer can design and build such as system without needing to do so called "blinker fluid replacement" periodic service on it.
Logically, it is NOT like brake or transmission system which has to survive high stress environment and needs to be swapped. Why could not have they used correct quality seals in the manufacturing to make it truly life time system? This system is more like the fluid inside your shock absorber. One does not expect it to be replaced during the life of shock absorber. Come to think of it, even shock absorber fluid has more sever service than the retractable top! Oops, probably wrong example, considering the current topic and its air-matic suspension
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
But the thing is, unless the system is abused and neglected (no fluid changes), it hardly EVER breaks.
Fluid in the retractable top mechanism needs to be flushed regularly?
That's not what I said. I said NO fluid changes.
The one area on the top system where any problems ever arise is an oil leak at the windshield latch cylinder seals. And in almost every case reported on fora where that happened the hydraulic fluid was still original and contaminated and eroded the seals . . . fluid usually close to 20 years old. I've since confirmed that fact with two MB service managers.
Anyone not changing out fluids on an S-class Mercedes after nearly 20 years deserves to have a problem.
The systems are pretty much bulletproof with periodic fluid changes, which takes 30 minutes and about $25 of fluid. Or, you can wait it out and see what happens after 15-20 years, just like with any other hydraulic system.
Shock absorbers are not lifetime items. They're wear items and get replaced as a complete unit when worn out. This system is like a brake system in that you don't replace the entire system when the fluid gets tired. You change the fluid. It certainly isn't "blinker fluid".
More importantly, none of the high dollar parts of the system ever really breaks, even after 15-20 years of service, and counting. And that IS remarkable.
Don't confuse maintenance with repair.
Quote:
But the thing is, unless the system is abused and neglected (no fluid changes), it hardly EVER breaks.
Fluid in the retractable top mechanism needs to be flushed regularly?
That's not what I said. I said NO fluid changes.
The one area on the top system where any problems ever arise is an oil leak at the windshield latch cylinder seals. And in almost every case reported on fora where that happened the hydraulic fluid was still original and contaminated and eroded the seals . . . fluid usually close to 20 years old. I've since confirmed that fact with two MB service managers.
Anyone not changing out fluids on an S-class Mercedes after nearly 20 years deserves to have a problem.
The systems are pretty much bulletproof with periodic fluid changes, which takes 30 minutes and about $25 of fluid. Or, you can wait it out and see what happens after 15-20 years, just like with any other hydraulic system.
Shock absorbers are not lifetime items. They're wear items and get replaced as a complete unit when worn out. This system is like a brake system in that you don't replace the entire system when the fluid gets tired. You change the fluid. It certainly isn't "blinker fluid".
More importantly, none of the high dollar parts of the system ever really breaks, even after 15-20 years of service, and counting. And that IS remarkable.
Don't confuse maintenance with repair.
What was the recommended schedule for that fluid replacement? I can understand brake fluid replacement being necessary in a car because the fluid encounters lot harsher conditions than the one for the retractable top. Weren't the seals used in that mechanism not up to the standard? I am under impression that there are few companies out there who make their living only on fixing MB retractable top and/or air-matic suspension components. I am trying to remember the name of the company but I am drawing a blank.
Vikas, there is no recommended replacement interval for the top hydraulic fluid. MB didn't go out 15+ years on the maintenance schedule. But that's about the age when original system fluid can start to reach its limits. Dirt, chemical oxidation/degradation, etc., and how often the top was cycled and the car kept all play a part. Most that complain of leaks were at or past that age on original fluids. Conversely, there are still a lot of people running original fluids that have so far had zero top problems.
Remember that they stopped making this model 12 years ago, and the earliest ones are now 25 years old.
It's not a perfectly sealed system, but has an easy access system reservoir in the trunk. Fresh fluid is clear. Once it starts turning darker, it's getting dirty and should be exchanged. Not an every two year thing like brakes, but perhaps every 5-7 years. Maybe even longer, depending on obsessiveness. There are probably also seal conditioners in the fluid that chemically degrade after that many years.
There's an outfit that offers reseal kits for when they do start leaking, which is cheaper than new cylinders. Once the cylinder starts leaking, then yes, the seal is done. But if you change the fluid every so often, you generally don't need to reach that point. All the MB people I've talked to about the seals claim it a red herring. It's not the seals, it's the fluid, and MB just didn't project new buyer service life that far out. For a brand new buyer in 1992 or 1995, this was a complete non-issue. Probably the same in 2002. Not so in 2014.
The reasons the windshield ones go is because the sun can beat on it all day, and it actually gets very hot in that area.
But the important thing is that changing out ancient fluid is a maintenance task, not a repair of something that randomly malfunctions. The top system itself just does not normally experience hydraulic or electronic control issues of any sort, even 25 years later. More people complain about the soft top plastic windows than they do about the top system itself.
FWIW, the automatic top system is separate from the auto roll bar system, which deploys in less than the blink of an eye if a possible roll over event is detected, or can be manually raised and lowered with a console switch. Truly an amazing setup, especially for 1989.
. . .
The auto leveling (ADS) system on the R129s was pretty much confined to the V-12s. That is not a model I recommend, as there is absolutely no room to work on that engine in this car. Most R129s were V-8s, very trouble-free, and that is the preferred one to have, in my opinion. The handful of AMG R129s made are incredible, but most of them unfortunately didn't get across the pond.
Remember that they stopped making this model 12 years ago, and the earliest ones are now 25 years old.
It's not a perfectly sealed system, but has an easy access system reservoir in the trunk. Fresh fluid is clear. Once it starts turning darker, it's getting dirty and should be exchanged. Not an every two year thing like brakes, but perhaps every 5-7 years. Maybe even longer, depending on obsessiveness. There are probably also seal conditioners in the fluid that chemically degrade after that many years.
There's an outfit that offers reseal kits for when they do start leaking, which is cheaper than new cylinders. Once the cylinder starts leaking, then yes, the seal is done. But if you change the fluid every so often, you generally don't need to reach that point. All the MB people I've talked to about the seals claim it a red herring. It's not the seals, it's the fluid, and MB just didn't project new buyer service life that far out. For a brand new buyer in 1992 or 1995, this was a complete non-issue. Probably the same in 2002. Not so in 2014.
The reasons the windshield ones go is because the sun can beat on it all day, and it actually gets very hot in that area.
But the important thing is that changing out ancient fluid is a maintenance task, not a repair of something that randomly malfunctions. The top system itself just does not normally experience hydraulic or electronic control issues of any sort, even 25 years later. More people complain about the soft top plastic windows than they do about the top system itself.
FWIW, the automatic top system is separate from the auto roll bar system, which deploys in less than the blink of an eye if a possible roll over event is detected, or can be manually raised and lowered with a console switch. Truly an amazing setup, especially for 1989.
. . .
The auto leveling (ADS) system on the R129s was pretty much confined to the V-12s. That is not a model I recommend, as there is absolutely no room to work on that engine in this car. Most R129s were V-8s, very trouble-free, and that is the preferred one to have, in my opinion. The handful of AMG R129s made are incredible, but most of them unfortunately didn't get across the pond.
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Jaraxle,
My first comment was more with a smile, so don't take it too seriously.
I think the problem with the newer Mercedes is that their engineering eventually became infected with the same cost bug (right before the time of the DC merger, and much more thereafter) that has dominated most automakers these days, especially as Mercedes has moved "down market" to compete at lower price points. That was not the case 25-30 years ago with Mercedes.
The reason I mentioned the R129 (and the reason I own one, and not a R230 or later, which I could also own), is that it was the last big Mercedes roadster where the engineers were given total design freedom without today's cost constraints. The vehicle was close to a decade in development. At the time it was introduced, it was the first completely automatic top system with integrated roll bar system. The whole shebang works with just one rocker button. The system is an enormously complex electromechanical and hydraulic setup that would cost a fortune to fix. But the thing is, unless the system is abused and neglected (no fluid changes), it hardly EVER breaks. The same is true about most of the rest of the car. This is a case where the vehicle is well over-engineered, but to a high level of durability and performance, not to a cost point.
Many of the older Mercedes shared this design philosophy. They are not necessarily harder to fix or more trouble prone. Granted the parts sometimes cost more, but that is why the cars from that period and before were so durable and reliable. The focus of the engineering was different.
I think that Mercedes to some extent is trading on its past reputation, particularly with some of the cheaper new models. It might also explain why they felt compelled to push its Maybach line during the DC era.
I find it interesting that DB is now killing Maybach, which is either a signal that it intends to improve the quality of the core product . . . or more likely that it is abandoning the pretense of the old quality gestalt altogether. I guess that makes the older ones all the more desirable, even if they don't have the latest touch screens and exotic creature comforts.
Go drive if you can find a 2014 G550 and report back.
Nothing is built like a G.
There is a reason one of its nick names is the brick s**t house on wheels.
That's the last old school vehicle built before luxury changed to technology from hand made quality.
Jaraxle,
My first comment was more with a smile, so don't take it too seriously.
I think the problem with the newer Mercedes is that their engineering eventually became infected with the same cost bug (right before the time of the DC merger, and much more thereafter) that has dominated most automakers these days, especially as Mercedes has moved "down market" to compete at lower price points. That was not the case 25-30 years ago with Mercedes.
The reason I mentioned the R129 (and the reason I own one, and not a R230 or later, which I could also own), is that it was the last big Mercedes roadster where the engineers were given total design freedom without today's cost constraints. The vehicle was close to a decade in development. At the time it was introduced, it was the first completely automatic top system with integrated roll bar system. The whole shebang works with just one rocker button. The system is an enormously complex electromechanical and hydraulic setup that would cost a fortune to fix. But the thing is, unless the system is abused and neglected (no fluid changes), it hardly EVER breaks. The same is true about most of the rest of the car. This is a case where the vehicle is well over-engineered, but to a high level of durability and performance, not to a cost point.
Many of the older Mercedes shared this design philosophy. They are not necessarily harder to fix or more trouble prone. Granted the parts sometimes cost more, but that is why the cars from that period and before were so durable and reliable. The focus of the engineering was different.
I think that Mercedes to some extent is trading on its past reputation, particularly with some of the cheaper new models. It might also explain why they felt compelled to push its Maybach line during the DC era.
I find it interesting that DB is now killing Maybach, which is either a signal that it intends to improve the quality of the core product . . . or more likely that it is abandoning the pretense of the old quality gestalt altogether. I guess that makes the older ones all the more desirable, even if they don't have the latest touch screens and exotic creature comforts.
Go drive if you can find a 2014 G550 and report back.
Nothing is built like a G.
There is a reason one of its nick names is the brick s**t house on wheels.
That's the last old school vehicle built before luxury changed to technology from hand made quality.
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Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Go drive if you can find a 2014 G550 and report back.
Been in one. Mercedes SUV is not my cup of tea.
I'll take your word for it that they haven't buggered that one up, like they have with all the later car models, IMO.
It's an early 1990s platform (or older depending on one's view), so echos my point about the older ones.
Go drive if you can find a 2014 G550 and report back.
Been in one. Mercedes SUV is not my cup of tea.
I'll take your word for it that they haven't buggered that one up, like they have with all the later car models, IMO.
It's an early 1990s platform (or older depending on one's view), so echos my point about the older ones.
So was the 1994-96 Fleetwood. Considering what that meant (LT1!), this is not a bad thing.
And honestly...I'd take a Cimarron over just about any of the other wrong-wheel drive junk they built for 20 years. If I have to drive a car I hate, give me the one that gets 30MPG. Much as I hate Cavaliers, they're at least cheaper to fix than anything with a 4100!
And honestly...I'd take a Cimarron over just about any of the other wrong-wheel drive junk they built for 20 years. If I have to drive a car I hate, give me the one that gets 30MPG. Much as I hate Cavaliers, they're at least cheaper to fix than anything with a 4100!
It was a very good idea for us. Maybe not a good idea for everyone else.
Probably should have bought one new. Couldn't justify the expense back then. But we got one close enough.
Only way for you to know if it works for you is to drive one, top down.
Probably should have bought one new. Couldn't justify the expense back then. But we got one close enough.
Only way for you to know if it works for you is to drive one, top down.
As I recall, the E55 was not particularly reliable while still under warranty. I had two friends with them when new and the spent an inordinate amount of time in the shop for AMG related issues.
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