Mileage Interval Until Synthetic Use

[BusyLittleShop]

Originally Posted By: Mackelroy

You've noticed too, how easily people have become brain washed with the synthetic term, mobil1 or any of the other group 3 so called synthetics should work just like dino oil non synthetic labled.



Dino don't work like Synthetic because

In a traditional Mineral (Dino) oil, the molecules varies in size and
this vary composition gives rise to increase friction and consume more HP.

In a fully synthetic oil like Mobil 1, the molecules are the same size and
this uniform composition decreases friction and consumes less HP.

The main thing you want in any synthetic oil is uniform size molecules...

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
In a traditional Mineral (Dino) oil, the molecules varies in size and
this vary composition gives rise to increase friction and consume more HP.

In a fully synthetic oil like Mobil 1, the molecules are the same size and
this uniform composition decreases friction and consumes less HP.

The main thing you want in any synthetic oil is uniform size molecules...

I think you're giving way too much credit to these so called uniform molecules. Differences in friction and HP are miniscule and are more attributable to friction modifiers than to the actual base oil. Besides, even oils like M1 contain some amount of these "non uniform" molecules because no oil is 100% fully synthetic.

These retarded diagrams have been discussed here before...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...ss_#Post3388930

 

[Robenstein]

I once remember some car performance magazine took a vintage Ford and replaced all the dino fluids in the drive train with synthetic. Got something like 3 or 4 horsepower. That was motor oil, differential lube, and auto trans fluid. While on a drag strip or track you will notice that miniscule amount in an E.T. or MPH, your butt dyno won't likely register the gains.

On a motorcycle I would imagine the power gains would be even smaller than on a large displacement V8. For me it is about wear numbers when it comes to oil more than power gains.

 

[Mackelroy]

Amsoil may get some pao base from Mobil, but anyone with a Nose , can clearly tell they arent even close in the final product. Amsoil smells like Pao, and Mobil one smells a lot like Dino oil.

One question Ive had with all the Hydro cracking going on, a lot of Hydro cracked labled dino oils smell more like synthetics than a typical dino oil.

Which leads me to believe, some of the Hydrocracked dino oils, could be labled synthetic under U.S. law, but they aren't to provide a lower price point, oil.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Mackelroy
Amsoil may get some pao base from Mobil, but anyone with a Nose , can clearly tell they arent even close in the final product. Amsoil smells like Pao, and Mobil one smells a lot like Dino oil.

Isn't it ester that gives Amsoil this peculiar smell?

 

[kschachn]

Most polyalphaolefins are colorless and have low odor. It's not the PAO you are smelling and I am going to wager it isn't the Group III either.

Originally Posted By: Mackelroy
Amsoil may get some pao base from Mobil, but anyone with a Nose , can clearly tell they arent even close in the final product. Amsoil smells like Pao, and Mobil one smells a lot like Dino oil.

One question Ive had with all the Hydro cracking going on, a lot of Hydro cracked labled dino oils smell more like synthetics than a typical dino oil.

Which leads me to believe, some of the Hydrocracked dino oils, could be labled synthetic under U.S. law, but they aren't to provide a lower price point, oil.

 

[Mackelroy]

The only ester oils, that I know for sure contain esters are like Belray EXS and Silkolene pro, and Motul v300, the latter two both smell like bananas, the EXS I think is some sort of combo of ester and PAO. The old Castrol R4 superbike oil also had a unique smell, which was PAO and maybe an ester combo.

As to Mobil 1, the MC oils used to have very high flash points, like 480 degree for the MX4t and over 500 degree for the Vtwin. Those flash points are presently way down more comparible to their car oils, I thinks we have a Base oil change.

 

[Rosetta]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
In a traditional Mineral (Dino) oil, the molecules varies in size and
this vary composition gives rise to increase friction and consume more HP.

In a fully synthetic oil like Mobil 1, the molecules are the same size and
this uniform composition decreases friction and consumes less HP.

The main thing you want in any synthetic oil is uniform size molecules...

I think you're giving way too much credit to these so called uniform molecules. Differences in friction and HP are miniscule and are more attributable to friction modifiers than to the actual base oil. Besides, even oils like M1 contain some amount of these "non uniform" molecules because no oil is 100% fully synthetic.

These retarded diagrams have been discussed here before...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...ss_#Post3388930




AMAZING This theory pictured. So, those molecules are bigger than the engine clearances!? Never heard of Molecules of 3-25 microns!!!
I'm sorry, but Not even micron, nano, neither pico sized are molecules, even the biggest really polymerized. Some BIG [censored]! IMO

 

[Robenstein]

Doesn't say anything about engine clearances, merely the direction of force/power. I guess it is more similar to take a bike over rough terrain versus flat uniform terrain. The direction of force is always forward but you have less rolling resistance on the smooth surface.

 

[alarmguy]

It doesnt matter what oil you use during break in, never has, its just an old wise tale based on peoples interpretation of mass marketing by the oil industry. Keep in mind synthetic oil is a cash cow for the industry. Stick "Synthetic" on the label and everyone thinks its superior when it comes to engine wear.

There is nothing superior in wear numbers between synthetic oil or conventional oil. Depending on the oil of course and without question as a rule synthetics will be equal to or better then most conventional oils, yet depending on the synthetic you are using, some very inexpensive conventional oils beat or equal many synthetics.

So the argument from any "mechanic" not to use synthetic before break in, is completely untrue and just tells you to find another mechanic OR just ignore his/her advice on the subject because he/she is uninformed.

Before ANYONE gives me grief for this post go do your own research, you can look up Amsoils own industry standards testing (which is the best) The test compares about a dozen synthetic motoroils and 2 conventional. It shows WHEN IT COMES TO WHAT MATTERS "wear" that Valvoline CONVENTIONAL motorcycle oil is in the middle of the pack of ALL the synthetics. Soooo if your mechanic tells you not to use synthetic ask him why, then show him why he is wrong.

 

[Robenstein]

You must also be willing to trust the Amsoil results. I have found that most companies will tend to bend the rules a bit to make themselves look better than their competition. I would give more credence to independent testing versus sponsored testing. Not saying Amsoil is bad....it is good.

I will say that in several cases Valvoline oils offer pretty darn good results and in more than one case their conventional oils show less wear than some synthetics. Even though their VOA additive packs sometime look sort of "meh", they do return great results on overage during conventional OCI's.