Of What Use Is An "Upper Cylinder Lubricant"?

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Originally Posted By: INTJ
I've wondered the same myself. It is all theory and fancy verbiage that makes it appear sound. Without a side by trial, though, there is no way to know if it lubricates the very upper cylinder..


OK, look at it this way...a 2 stroke engine is lubed by oil being mixed with the fuel. It's "upper cylinder" is certainly being lubricated by said oil.

So oil in the fuel WILL provide a lubricant to the upper cylinder, just how much of a benefit (if any) it provides is in question, but there will be oil introduced to the top ring area.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: INTJ
I've wondered the same myself. It is all theory and fancy verbiage that makes it appear sound. Without a side by trial, though, there is no way to know if it lubricates the very upper cylinder..


OK, look at it this way...a 2 stroke engine is lubed by oil being mixed with the fuel. It's "upper cylinder" is certainly being lubricated by said oil.

So oil in the fuel WILL provide a lubricant to the upper cylinder, just how much of a benefit (if any) it provides is in question, but there will be oil introduced to the top ring area.


Yes, 2 cycles get oil or lube down on the lower cylinder and rod/crank bearings, everything is lubed globaly by fuel/oil.

That is why they have low compression ratios, due to "oil" stealing octane from the fuel. 6.5 to 1 is typical.

It'd be interesting to see if that smaller quantity of "oil" could provide anti-ware vs. straight up gas. It could sound as, "any is better than none." I've seen top rings cut into cylinder walls, and I've heard of a simple re-ring doing the trick at very high miles, across different engines.

I guess it couldn't hurt on "faith."
 
Dagnab it, I have had the head off the B+S flathead in my sitdown mower recently. It was a hurried operation and I didnt remember to check the piston and valves for carbon.
 
Originally Posted By: Loobed
Originally Posted By: cchase


Where are you getting 15% ethanol fuel?


California



Only of you are buying it from a special blending pump. E15 is not fully approved for widespread sale at this time - it received some initial approvals from the EPA, but has NOT rolled out for widespread use yet.

10% is the usual max percentage sold as regular gasoline. Even in California.
 
Originally Posted By: INTJ
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: INTJ
I've wondered the same myself. It is all theory and fancy verbiage that makes it appear sound. Without a side by trial, though, there is no way to know if it lubricates the very upper cylinder..


OK, look at it this way...a 2 stroke engine is lubed by oil being mixed with the fuel. It's "upper cylinder" is certainly being lubricated by said oil.

So oil in the fuel WILL provide a lubricant to the upper cylinder, just how much of a benefit (if any) it provides is in question, but there will be oil introduced to the top ring area.


Yes, 2 cycles get oil or lube down on the lower cylinder and rod/crank bearings, everything is lubed globaly by fuel/oil.

That is why they have low compression ratios, due to "oil" stealing octane from the fuel. 6.5 to 1 is typical.

It'd be interesting to see if that smaller quantity of "oil" could provide anti-ware vs. straight up gas. It could sound as, "any is better than none." I've seen top rings cut into cylinder walls, and I've heard of a simple re-ring doing the trick at very high miles, across different engines.

I guess it couldn't hurt on "faith."


Ok, I'm quoting my self here, but half way through 30 gallons of treated fuel with MMO; my truck is different in sound and feel by the motor. This difference was 'sudden' on one day in comparison to the prior drive. Smooth as silk, although the truck never was rough to begin with. It must have cleaned up something.

I'm the type to walk away from titles in products that are 'mystical' sounding, and have a carnival like catch all phrase. I remember this stuff came in steel cans some decades ago.

Funny thing how prejudice can play on you.
 
I use a UCL, primarily TC-W3, to offset the drying effects of ethanol in gasoline. Don't forget that ethanol attracts moisture and moisture is not something that you want in your fuel system.

Moisture in your fuel tank will degrade and rust out your fuel pump and lines over time. With the use of TC-W3 added to each fill up in the ratio of 1 ounce to every 5 gallons of ethanol winter blend gasoline, sold in my region, I feel that this oil helps keep the pump and line lubed.

Ethanol, like any alcohol, does not help with plastic, rubber or silicone found in gaskets and seals. At least these seals are getting a small dose, with the fuel pump running, of lube.

I like to mix my TC-W3 with either Chevron Techron Fuel System cleaner or Gumout Regane Fuel System cleaner.

I add 3 ounces of TC-W3 and the fuel system cleaner, 3 ounces of each, to every fill up of 14 to 15 gallons of regular unleaded gasoline.

Kept in premixed 6 ounce bottle in a air tight container, the delivery can be introduced to the fuel, prior to filling up at pump at the gas station.

No problems to report after using this blend for the past few years and my engine runs smooth. The TC-W3 and fuel system cleaner in small doses burns off clean in the combustion chamber, after lubing everything between the fuel tank and the cylinder.
 
So mongo. You are basically saying use a 2 stroke oil as an upper cylinder lube. Now I see your ratios really aren't that stiff. Are you saying that at these ratios you have had no ill effects as far as oxygen sensor function in today's very sensitive fuel injection systems. Or is this basically for carb only use.
I have alot of carburated gas equipment. I have found that 1 ounce of acetone per 10 liters of fuel has lowered consumption. I guess what I'm asking is does this help fuel economy,or does it help wear. Or both.
Thanks
 
K. So 1 ounce per 5 gallons. Does that ratio show any fuel consumption gains. Or wear or what. I have got 15 quarts of amsoil dominator 2 stroke oil but only my weed eater needs it. I am looking for a use for it.
I get amsoil free from a friend so I have a stock pile of all kinds of stuff. I want to see some form of savings such as fuel or maintenance.
So my Jerry can is 25 liters. So how much should I use to realize a fuel consumption saving. Or is there one.
 
Be very careful of what kind of 2 Stroke oil that you use. It MUST be TC-W3. It should state so on the label and contents. TC-W3 will state that it is ashless. When it burns off in the combustion chamber it will not leave any carbon or residue behind.

I personally use Pennzoil Marine Synthetic Blend TC-W3. The reason I use this oil is because I picked it up on clearance at Target a while back and also at WM at the end of the boating season.

In the beginning it took two fill ups with TC-W3/Fuel System cleaner before I noticed any results. But then it took hold and I noticed how smooth acceleration was with the use of the UCL. I have a fuel injection system, not carb, and it has not harmed the sensors in my 1997 T4R.

I don't notice any MPG improvement with winter blend gasoline with ethanol that is sold in my region of the country. However, I do pick up a mile or two per gallon when the Summer Blends come back to the pump, after the winter/spring season ends.

YMMV.....some people like MMO, others use Lucas UCL but for me....my concoction of the TC-W3 and Chevron Techron Fuel system cleaner seems to work great. I do use Gumout Regane Fuel System cleaner but not the concentrate.

I have a nice stash of the "unconcentrated" old PEA Gumout Regane in 12 ounce bottles that I use to mix with TC-W3 in a empty MMO quart bottle. 16 ounces of TC-W3 and 16 ounces of Fuel System cleaner with PEA....mix well and fill your empty 6 ounce bottles.
 
Thanks mongo. Great info to know. Do you know if the amsoil dominator stuff falls into the ashless department. I will run out and inspect a bottle.

Thanks again. I am going to try er out
 
Oops. It's called interceptor. Not dominator. And I thought that tcw spec was for biodegradabilty. Not ash. I could very well be mistaken though. If you can clarify for me please.
Thanks
 
The TC-W3 spec is known for it's Biodegradability especially around lakes, rivers and oceans. The "Marine" TC-W3 is used for that purpose and the impact it would have on the environment.

Just make sure that the 2 stroke oil that you use is Ash-less....if you're going to use it in your fuel. You can even use the WM, TC-W3, engine oil if you like....


I know nothing about the Amsoil line of products.
 
Last edited:
Bumping this old thread.

I have tried MMO in a few vehicles as an UCL, 6oz/15gal. It may be all in my head, but I think they run smoother. Ran several tanks in the Forester, and I think it smooths out idle and acceleration. Not sure it's necessary, but the feeling your doing something better sure is addictive. Have not had the gumption to try it in my turbo legacy just yet. Maybe soon???
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: 05LGTLtd
Bumping this old thread.

I have tried MMO in a few vehicles as an UCL, 6oz/15gal. It may be all in my head, but I think they run smoother. Ran several tanks in the Forester, and I think it smooths out idle and acceleration. Not sure it's necessary, but the feeling your doing something better sure is addictive. Have not had the gumption to try it in my turbo legacy just yet. Maybe soon?


It will work just fine in your turbo Legacy. It works fine in my turbo Forester. About the only issue may be that your cat won't like it - but that could apply to any of your vehicles.
 
Red Line SI-1 comes in a considerably thicker base fluid than other fuel injector cleaners. They claim it contains an a "synthetic" upper cylinder lubricant. Other fuel injector cleaning additives come in some sort of generic thin solvent like a Stoddard solvent (that's on the Chevron Techron Concentrate MSDS.
 
Redline fuel cleaner has a UCL in it... Some guys here on the forum use around 3-4 oz per tank of fuel. It keeps everything clean and lubed.
 
[censored] the torpedoes! Added 5oz of MMO to the LGT yesterday. I might be an addict to MMO...
 
Originally Posted By: morris
check this out http://www.ampcolubes.com/ its a lot like the upperoiler that MMO used to make. i have been running one one for 3 jears, half of the mmo goes in the tank the other half goes in the intake



I've got 2 of them. They're called an inverse oiler. I've got one on my charger right now.
 
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