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#3435288 - 07/25/14 12:49 PM they are still doing it NHRA
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
yep 7-20-14 sun. NHRA drag racing Denver Co. if i post it this time you will say iam beating a dead horse. 30 passes. only 10 under full power.

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#3435293 - 07/25/14 12:58 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
NMBurb02 Online   content


Registered: 09/12/12
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So...5 days ago?
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#3435297 - 07/25/14 01:06 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15179
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: morris
yep 7-20-14 sun. NHRA drag racing Denver Co. if i post it this time you will say iam beating a dead horse. 30 passes. only 10 under full power.


I know how you feel. This is not racing like you and I grew up with!!!
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#3435302 - 07/25/14 01:13 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
dave1251 Offline


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 7245
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
I am missing something. No doubt.
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#3435315 - 07/25/14 01:26 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
02SE Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 358
Loc: The Canyons
Conditions were a little tricky this past weekend at Bandimere, as you noted. That's a fairly common scenario at that high-altitude track.

There is a razor-thin margin of error, so they either go fast, or have issues.

Anyway, things are getting busy here in the pit at Sonoma. Hopefully the overall performance of the Fuel teams, will be better for the fans.

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#3435333 - 07/25/14 01:45 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: dave1251]
ag_ghost Offline


Registered: 12/08/10
Posts: 403
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: dave1251
I am missing something. No doubt.

First thread from the OP about this general topic:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3403215/all/NHRA_drag_racing_june_15
Kevin
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#3435377 - 07/25/14 02:21 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: ag_ghost]
dave1251 Offline


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 7245
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
Thank you!
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#3435388 - 07/25/14 02:31 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
dave1251 Offline


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 7245
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
Makes sense to me.

Why would anyone blow a engine in preliminary rounds and lose millions of dollars in revenue in lost sponsorship and earnings?

My opinion is this. By not racing at 100% full bore 100% of the time showcases the drivers overall skill thus to win takes a more complete driver. This is a complete balancing act on the driver and crew that really underscores the knowledge, skill, and ability of all aspects of racing.

Of course there going to differing opinions.
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#3435443 - 07/25/14 03:18 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
i know iam beating the horse. sorry. but when 70% of the runs are a fail to race. SOMETHING is wrong. the only reason i posted this again is that its all most EVERY race. course when you own half the car at the track you DO have a chance to do good.

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#3435450 - 07/25/14 03:28 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15179
Loc: Sunny Florida
They are over regulated for safety. They cannot risk a death on TV.

Thank the lawyers...
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#3435570 - 07/25/14 05:40 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
sorry i have to say it again. SEALED ENGINE, SEALED ENGINE. will help the safety trouble. DAAAAA.

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#3435934 - 07/25/14 11:46 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: SteveSRT8]
KenO Offline


Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 1174
Loc: Auburn, GA
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
They are over regulated for safety. They cannot risk a death on TV.

Thank the lawyers...



Over-regulated for safety?? You're kidding, right? NHRA is one of the most dangerous 4-wheeled motorsports, the NHRA people have blatantly ignored MAJOR safety concerns for years. WAY too much redneck engineering in NHRA, and far too many closed minds to accept any constructive criticism.


Edited by KenO (07/25/14 11:47 PM)
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#3435971 - 07/26/14 01:23 AM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: KenO]
02SE Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 358
Loc: The Canyons
Originally Posted By: KenO
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
They are over regulated for safety. They cannot risk a death on TV.

Thank the lawyers...



Over-regulated for safety?? You're kidding, right? NHRA is one of the most dangerous 4-wheeled motorsports, the NHRA people have blatantly ignored MAJOR safety concerns for years. WAY too much redneck engineering in NHRA, and far too many closed minds to accept any constructive criticism.


OK, what would you change?

I did get a chuckle out of the "redneck engineering" comment, though.

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#3435999 - 07/26/14 05:14 AM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: 02SE]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15179
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: KenO
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
They are over regulated for safety. They cannot risk a death on TV.

Thank the lawyers...



Over-regulated for safety?? You're kidding, right? NHRA is one of the most dangerous 4-wheeled motorsports, the NHRA people have blatantly ignored MAJOR safety concerns for years. WAY too much redneck engineering in NHRA, and far too many closed minds to accept any constructive criticism.


OK, what would you change?

I did get a chuckle out of the "redneck engineering" comment, though.



That one WAS good for a laugh, eh?

C'mon, really? Redneck? The faster classes feature some truly cutting edge engineering, expensive machine work, and are held to extremely high standards by safety regs and more.

He must have been thinking of "Test and Tune" night at the local strip...
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#3436162 - 07/26/14 10:03 AM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
i might be telling my age. but i remember when they found out the nitro fumes was knocking drivers out. mid-50s? in the late 60s the ONLY rules was safety. not to slow the car down. and i think NHRA is a bit like the gestapo. like you ONLY can use ONE certin brand of nitro.....???????

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#3436203 - 07/26/14 11:04 AM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
bdcardinal Offline


Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 6621
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Originally Posted By: morris
and i think NHRA is a bit like the gestapo. like you ONLY can use ONE certin brand of nitro.....???????


NASCAR requires all teams to use Sunoco ethanol, same with IndyCar. You have to run Goodyear tires in NASCAR even though, arguably, Hoosier makes a superior product.

It not only keeps costs in line, but it keeps teams from formulating their own fuels.

F1 teams have Shell, ExxonMobil, and Petronas make custom fuels for their cars. Samples are provided to the FIA to ensure they meet requirements. Would you rather have that?
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#3436205 - 07/26/14 11:05 AM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
bdcardinal Offline


Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 6621
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
I do wish they would go back to the full 1320ft thing with the Fuel cars. But even the FIA has changed the distance in the drag racing series it runs to 1000ft, and since they are ultimately the ones running NHRA that is the rule.
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#3436292 - 07/26/14 12:54 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
did not i say gestapo?

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#3436293 - 07/26/14 12:55 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: bdcardinal]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21380
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
I do wish they would go back to the full 1320ft thing with the Fuel cars. But even the FIA has changed the distance in the drag racing series it runs to 1000ft, and since they are ultimately the ones running NHRA that is the rule.


+1 I wish they'd let them run the full quarter.
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#3436300 - 07/26/14 01:05 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
bdcardinal Offline


Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 6621
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Originally Posted By: morris
did not i say gestapo?


I don't see how it is at all. Plus when sponsor money is involved, especially with a fuel and tire supplier, they tend to prefer exclusive contracts since losing is bad for publicity.
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#3436387 - 07/26/14 02:39 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
in the late 60s i went to the world points finals from 1965 to 1968. one time i saw a guy with a max wedge with an aluminium front end. he lost the hood in the traps. and NHRA would NOT let him use a steel hood. i have known some racers leave NHRA cause of the gestapo tactics. OH about winning? when you own half the cars at the track you do have a chance to win.

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#3438241 - 07/28/14 09:30 AM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: SteveSRT8]
sunruh Offline


Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 1631
Loc: Cedar Park, TX
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: morris
yep 7-20-14 sun. NHRA drag racing Denver Co. if i post it this time you will say iam beating a dead horse. 30 passes. only 10 under full power.


I know how you feel. This is not racing like you and I grew up with!!!


yeah no kidding

1 cylinder of a tfd/tfc makes more hp than all 8 cylinders did back then.
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#3439017 - 07/28/14 09:48 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
OK sanoma cal. 7-27-14 only 6 out of 30 pass with both car at full power. thats all.

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#3439156 - 07/29/14 01:52 AM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
02SE Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 358
Loc: The Canyons
I've said it before, but a sealed engine as you keep mentioning over and over again, would kill the Fuel car classes.

I know that I and most of my colleagues would lose interest in running a Fuel car that is a shadow of it's former self. Most of the fans would follow in their lack of interest in a lame Fuel Car class. A Top Fuel Dragster or Funny Car that can't run with a Pro Stock Car, would be an insult to the original intent of their respective classes.

There are a slew of regulations that are intended to and do slow the cars down, which make these cars much more tricky to tune. Especially for a track with an inconsistent surface.

Sorry you weren't pleased with the Sonoma event.

On to Pacific Raceways, where conditions are often conducive to good runs.

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#3439371 - 07/29/14 10:09 AM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: 02SE]
bdcardinal Offline


Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 6621
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Originally Posted By: 02SE
I've said it before, but a sealed engine as you keep mentioning over and over again, would kill the Fuel car classes.


I don't go out of my way to watch NHRA, I will catch it when I am flipping through and remember it is on. However if they went to sealed engines in the fuel class I would lose complete interest. Half the fun is watching the crew chiefs come up with a tune that will let the car stick and not spin tire.
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#3440114 - 07/29/14 10:16 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
it would NOT kill it. they have adapted to lower nitro level, 1,000 ft track. no computer control clutch, blower size restriction, rear end ratio limit, wing size limit, engine cubic inch limit. and just off the top of my head. they WILL adapt!!! how in world is 70% failing to finish under power a RACE? i thought a race was BOTH car finishing the track under power. or am i crazy?

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#3440188 - 07/30/14 01:43 AM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
02SE Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 358
Loc: The Canyons
You've only scratched the surface of the various regulations and restrictions, Fuel cars must adhere to.

A "Race" is beating the guy in the other lane. Or in the case of the Four-Wide deal, the other three lanes. Whether the car(s) in the other lane(s) finish under power or not.

I get it. You want them tamed to the point that everyone finishes under power, no matter the circumstances.

I can tell you that I and all of the colleagues I've discussed this with over the years, would give up Fuel racing if it came to that. Not that it would matter, because the majority of fans would stop coming out to the races, if the Fuel cars were no longer the ground-pounding, ear-splitting, internal organ rearranging, noxious fume belching violent machines we know and love.

I say lets just race the team traveling and tow vehicles. Imagine a bunch of Toyota Minivans and SUV's racing down the track. Everyone would finish under power! smile

At any rate, this discussion is going nowhere.

Have a good night.

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#3440562 - 07/30/14 12:14 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
how do you "BEAT" some one if he gives of half way down the track. that is a "FAIL TO RACE". ill say this if i was a top fuel tuner and my engine blew up 70% of the time i would be VERY embarrassed.

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#3440857 - 07/30/14 04:51 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
could this happen? iam a top furl tuner and EVERY run the other guy fails to be at full power at the finish line? SOOOOOO did i win the race? what think? would you be proud if that happened to you?

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#3440946 - 07/30/14 06:20 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
sunruh Offline


Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 1631
Loc: Cedar Park, TX
how is that different than the other person red lighting?

it is not.

a large part of TF ***IS*** getting the tune right for the track.

then the driver has to do the job they are paid for! pedal it or not.

it is too bad you dont understand this simple concept.
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#3440982 - 07/30/14 06:52 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
i DO understand all you say. my first NHRA drag race was 1955 greatbend KS. it IS hard to run a fast car for sure. BUT when 70% of the passes are ONLY one car at full power. that is NOT a race.

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#3441353 - 07/31/14 06:57 AM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
chestand Offline


Registered: 09/20/11
Posts: 128
Loc: Kansas City
Morris,
Ever watch fuel altereds race back in the day? A complete pass with both cars under full power was rare in that class. Were they "racing"? I bet Willie Bosch felt that he was doing the best he could. How about funny cars match racing at strips that weren't really prepared well or safe? Often they would reduce the Nitro percentage to save on parts. Was that racing? How about a car failing to make the next round call resulting in a bye run? Or a car losing fire after a burnout? 40 years ago I saw a lot of fuel cars make incomplete passes. The good old days weren't always that good.

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#3441705 - 07/31/14 01:10 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: chestand]
02SE Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 358
Loc: The Canyons
The late "Wild Willie" Borsch.


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#3441835 - 07/31/14 03:06 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: 02SE]
chestand Offline


Registered: 09/20/11
Posts: 128
Loc: Kansas City
Now that's entertainment!

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#3442069 - 07/31/14 06:13 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
O YA i went to the world points finals from 1965 to 1968. i have talked to Ronnie Sox, BIG DADDY, connie with a SOHC ford digger. i have seen the mopar A/FX cars in Wichita and BIG. we had our own hero John Webee BEFORE he was fast. O and dont for get i was at the FIRST NHRA nationals 1955 greatbend KS. so i think i can have option that that is valid. and the altered was crazy cause of the short wheelbase. BUT failed engines and tire spin by now should be a thing of the past by now. how many pages of info do they have on the race condition do they have but still cant get it hooked of.


Edited by morris (07/31/14 06:20 PM)

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#3442137 - 07/31/14 07:23 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
02SE Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 358
Loc: The Canyons
Originally Posted By: morris
O YA i went to the world points finals from 1965 to 1968. i have talked to Ronnie Sox, BIG DADDY, connie with a SOHC ford digger. i have seen the mopar A/FX cars in Wichita and BIG. we had our own hero John Webee BEFORE he was fast. O and dont for get i was at the FIRST NHRA nationals 1955 greatbend KS. so i think i can have option that that is valid. and the altered was crazy cause of the short wheelbase. BUT failed engines and tire spin by now should be a thing of the past by now. how many pages of info do they have on the race condition do they have but still cant get it hooked of.


A LOT has changed on Fuel cars, in the last 46 or 59 years. Depending on which year you're referencing.

As I've already said, there are numerous regulations and restrictions that make these cars much more tricky to tune. I'd be happy if most of those went away. Until then, they will always be tricky to tune.

If you think you can do a better job than those of us that have been doing this for years, by all means come out and show us how it's done.

In lieu of that, I hope you can still enjoy watching the races, despite our inept efforts.

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#3442315 - 07/31/14 10:28 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: 02SE]
bdcardinal Offline


Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 6621
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Originally Posted By: 02SE
If you think you can do a better job than those of us that have been doing this for years, by all means come out and show us how it's done.

In lieu of that, I hope you can still enjoy watching the races, despite our inept efforts.


Thanks for posting your insight. Always interesting hearing from those that work in racing series what their thoughts are on the current situation in their respective series.
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#3442912 - 08/01/14 01:56 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: 02SE]
A_Harman Online   content


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 4323
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: 02SE
The late "Wild Willie" Borsch.



Now that's the drag racing of olden times: wildly out of control overpowered machines driven by men who were either crazy or clanged when they walked. Parts breakage and incomplete passes have always been part of the game. The object is to win, and to win you have to tune to either the limit of the car or the limit of the track. If you exceed the limit of the car, you blow up and lose. If you exceed the limit of the track, you go up in smoke and lose. I think the most exciting races are where both cars go up in smoke, and it becomes a contest between drivers who can pedal the throttle more effectively.
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#3443133 - 08/01/14 05:57 PM Re: they are still doing it NHRA [Re: morris]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
when i posted O YA i did NOT mean it to say in your face. i might have phrased it wrong. i ment it to say i do understand what you are saying. i have not tuned fuel engines. but i HAVE helped on diff diggers / old style funny cars. ill say this. IF the blow up engines was reduced by 50% but the cars top MPH droped by 30-40. but you had 50% of the passes with two cars side by side. you WOULD have a better race, and happier FANS. the classes that do that NOW have tons of interest. dont they?

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