Fram Cartridge Failure

[ElastoHydro]

Originally Posted By: gtmaster303
Even though the filter failed, its not like the engine detonated. Sure it may be passing unfiltered oil but the media is still there doing its job with whatever oil makes its way through, right?
What's the worst that can really happen from an oil filter failure? (Please no flaming, this is a genuine question)


A hole in the oil filter will let through more particles for a little more engine wear. It migh even have some particles on the media surface wash through, and, if a small chunk comes off the oil pump or other parts, that part could be let through for a round of fun snuggling up into bearings and timing chains, etc.

 

[boundarylayer]

Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
Originally Posted By: Motorking
Hello,
I work for FRAM. we would like very much to see the filter. Please call 800-890-2075 and press the option for claims and quality. We will evaluate the filter and provide feedback.


Yes, you too can work for Fram for free! Seriously, if Fram can't already uncover problems from random sampling, on their own dime, then what can a consumer do? They already have a picture of it. Now, Fram, go out and see what the statistics are of failures.

Of course, the customer can get a coupon for another Fram oil filter to tear and potentially let chunks infest their engines, yay!


OK, sure nothing beats a big oil filter company going out and getting 50 random filters a week to see how often they see tears, but it generates a lot of customer satisfaction if Fram acts like they really want a customer to spend their time calling, talking, mailing it in, and getting a coupon for a new one in the mail in return to get MORE wear in their engine again. Its good business.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
Originally Posted By: Motorking
Hello,
I work for FRAM. we would like very much to see the filter. Please call 800-890-2075 and press the option for claims and quality. We will evaluate the filter and provide feedback.


Yes, you too can work for Fram for free! Seriously, if Fram can't already uncover problems from random sampling, on their own dime, then what can a consumer do? They already have a picture of it. Now, Fram, go out and see what the statistics are of failures.

Of course, the customer can get a coupon for another Fram oil filter to tear and potentially let chunks infest their engines, yay!


Fram/Motorking is taking advantage of any opportunity to collect failure data ... nothing wrong with that. I think Motorking also said once that Fram actively does sample the field for used filters to sample how their products hold up in real use.

At least Fram doesn't act like Purolator and just ignore people's direct contact with reported failures.

 

[smithph]

These are held in place, once installed, via spring loaded pressure applied to the top and bottom end caps of the filter. Lack of glue (but assembly robots would never do that!)and a good squeeze to the top/bottom could pop those joints loose.

 

[ElastoHydro]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
Originally Posted By: Motorking
Hello,
I work for FRAM. we would like very much to see the filter. Please call 800-890-2075 and press the option for claims and quality. We will evaluate the filter and provide feedback.


Yes, you too can work for Fram for free! Seriously, if Fram can't already uncover problems from random sampling, on their own dime, then what can a consumer do? They already have a picture of it. Now, Fram, go out and see what the statistics are of failures.

Of course, the customer can get a coupon for another Fram oil filter to tear and potentially let chunks infest their engines, yay!


Fram/Motorking is taking advantage of any opportunity to collect failure data ... nothing wrong with that. I think Motorking also said once that Fram actively does sample the field for used filters to sample how their products hold up in real use.

At least Fram doesn't act like Purolator and just ignore people's direct contact with reported failures.


I'm tough on the practice of taking the time to mail stuff back to companies, yet in this case, I think most Fram oil filters are probably the least likely to get a tear. Any oil filter can tear and its rare for well made ones to rip. If its 1%, companies are likely OK with that.

 

[Bud_One]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix


At least Fram doesn't act like Purolator and just ignore people's direct contact with reported failures.


+1 Exactly

 

[boundarylayer]

Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
Originally Posted By: Andy636
I like the way Mann does it; they inject the resin in such a way that it bonds the plates and forms the endcaps at the same time.
That's the same way Denso do it for their Totota-branded filters, both cartridge and spin-on.


There are no end caps for some filters.

I guess it just tucks in, gets shrouded somehow. Thats the way to go. Get some heavy duty permanent parts to just tuck a bare element into.

 

[Motorking]

Really? The owner would get reimbursed for the filter and shipping and quite possibly more than that. Without the date code it is very difficult to know what factory this came from and without engineering analysis the failure mode is difficult to draw a conclusion on from foggy internet pictures. We do care that this occurred and want to prevent it from happening again. The last guy who took the time to send me a filter got a case of Ultras for his time.

 

[RF Overlord]

I'm not too proud to admit I was once a FRAM fan-boy, then became a FRAM-hater after joining BITOG, but I've come almost full-circle again. The FU seems to be a great filter and Jay is the only representative from a filter company who bothers to read and post here and it appears FRAM does actually care about us.

Are you reading this Purolator???? The first sign of tears in one of my beloved Motorcraft FL820S and an Ultra goes on my cars.

 

[Motorking]

Hi,
I am the tech director at FRAM. If you would please call 800-890-2075 and press the option for claims and quality, please let them know you have spoken with me and they will pay for shipping to send the filter in. We would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted By: Motorking
Hi,
I am the tech director at FRAM. If you would please call 800-890-2075 and press the option for claims and quality, please let them know you have spoken with me and they will pay for shipping to send the filter in. We would greatly appreciate it.


I think it's great to have customer service like this. There are people who care about the products they produce.
FWIW I change the oil in my wife's 2012 Equinox 2.4 every 3,000+ miles, and have found that the ACDelco cartridge filters I use start to get a little distorted looking. The OP changed his oil at 5K miles. Maybe the interval had something to do with it, but just guessing.

 

[gtmaster303]

Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
Originally Posted By: gtmaster303
Even though the filter failed, its not like the engine detonated. Sure it may be passing unfiltered oil but the media is still there doing its job with whatever oil makes its way through, right?
What's the worst that can really happen from an oil filter failure? (Please no flaming, this is a genuine question)


A hole in the oil filter will let through more particles for a little more engine wear. It migh even have some particles on the media surface wash through, and, if a small chunk comes off the oil pump or other parts, that part could be let through for a round of fun snuggling up into bearings and timing chains, etc.

Of the small amount of tears that do occur and possibly the few more that occur without anyone ever knowing (not everyone checks their filters), how likely is it to harm the engine? Anything is possible, but has filter failure ever killed an engine?
What I'm trying to poke at is, can an engine make due with dirty unfiltered oil (even filter failure) or will it die?
I think anyone who reasonably changes their oil at the right intervals will not see any harm. I think that is...

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: gtmaster303
Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
Originally Posted By: gtmaster303
Even though the filter failed, its not like the engine detonated. Sure it may be passing unfiltered oil but the media is still there doing its job with whatever oil makes its way through, right?
What's the worst that can really happen from an oil filter failure? (Please no flaming, this is a genuine question)


A hole in the oil filter will let through more particles for a little more engine wear. It might even have some particles on the media surface wash through, and, if a small chunk comes off the oil pump or other parts, that part could be let through for a round of fun snuggling up into bearings and timing chains, etc.

Of the small amount of tears that do occur and possibly the few more that occur without anyone ever knowing (not everyone checks their filters), how likely is it to harm the engine? Anything is possible, but has filter failure ever killed an engine?
What I'm trying to poke at is, can an engine make due with dirty unfiltered oil (even filter failure) or will it die?
I think anyone who reasonably changes their oil at the right intervals will not see any harm. I think that is...


Sure, lets all just accept torn media in oil filters. Maybe it should just be made part of the design if it's not that important to filter 100% of the oil. But they couldn't call them "full flow" filters anymore, as it would them become a "bypass filter".

 

[ElastoHydro]

Originally Posted By: Motorking
Really? The owner would get reimbursed for the filter and shipping and quite possibly more than that. Without the date code it is very difficult to know what factory this came from and without engineering analysis the failure mode is difficult to draw a conclusion on from foggy internet pictures. We do care that this occurred and want to prevent it from happening again. The last guy who took the time to send me a filter got a case of Ultras for his time.


I do like Fram filters over just about anything else, I admit. (Wix maybe too.) That said, a big company like Fram must take a look at samples from the field to form a statistical case. I think a few tears are likely acceptable, if it happens rarely enough, and the only way to know how rare it is, is to just take a few Fram filters back used.

 

[ElastoHydro]

Originally Posted By: gtmaster303

Of the small amount of tears that do occur and possibly the few more that occur without anyone ever knowing (not everyone checks their filters), how likely is it to harm the engine? Anything is possible, but has filter failure ever killed an engine?
What I'm trying to poke at is, can an engine make due with dirty unfiltered oil (even filter failure) or will it die?
I think anyone who reasonably changes their oil at the right intervals will not see any harm. I think that is...


I see your assertion. Sure few engine failures occur due to oil filter problems. Yet, for the enthusiast, we like to know the thing isn't torn inside, or at least if we knew how rare it is for that to happen. The additional wear from a torn filter is invisible usually.

 

[JerryBob]

Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
Originally Posted By: Motorking
Hello,
I work for FRAM. we would like very much to see the filter. Please call 800-890-2075 and press the option for claims and quality. We will evaluate the filter and provide feedback.


Yes, you too can work for Fram for free! Seriously, if Fram can't already uncover problems from random sampling, on their own dime, then what can a consumer do? They already have a picture of it. Now, Fram, go out and see what the statistics are of failures.

Of course, the customer can get a coupon for another Fram oil filter to tear and potentially let chunks infest their engines, yay!


You're rude and uninformed.

 

[stickybuns]

Originally Posted By: SF0059
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Are the ends still glued or did they tear allowing unfiltered oil to pass?


It was fully separated allowing unfiltered oil to pass.

Also, all the pleats were straight, so it wasn't a situation where pressure collapse caused the failure.


I disagree, there was no real flow-thru. This Fram Ultra cartridge end-cap issue may be nothing at all.

The wire backed media stays in place (stiff), and the flat end caps are always held in place by the surrounding housing metal.

It all means there is no failure here.

 

[stickybuns]

Originally Posted By: JerryBob
Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
Originally Posted By: Motorking
Hello,
I work for FRAM. we would like very much to see the filter. Please call 800-890-2075 and press the option for claims and quality. We will evaluate the filter and provide feedback.


Yes, you too can work for Fram for free! Seriously, if Fram can't already uncover problems from random sampling, on their own dime, then what can a consumer do? They already have a picture of it. Now, Fram, go out and see what the statistics are of failures.

Of course, the customer can get a coupon for another Fram oil filter to tear and potentially let chunks infest their engines, yay!


You're rude and uninformed.


No, he's right. Fram already should be doing their own work taking samples from actual use to determine if a high percentage have a problem. Not the customer.

 

[telecat]

Originally Posted By: stickybuns


No, he's right. Fram already should be doing their own work taking samples from actual use to determine if a high percentage have a problem. Not the customer.
Oh no, dontcha know, Fram is the new Wix!

 

[Hessam]

I don't get it...isn't a filter tear basically the same thing as a regular "untorn" filter going into bypass mode? There are million of oil filters that go into bypass mode without people every knowing about it, or having any physical evidence of it, and most engines get through it just fine.