War in Ukraine

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: Trav
...

Obama is not considered center right. He is considered a Socialist.


By whom? You? Your personal opinion isn't "fact"...


Where are you getting your information? Out of your own mind or what?
No one is stupid enough to believe this communist is center right. Maybe you are.


No one is stupid enough to confuse communist with socialist either. (Well, maybe you are....). Pick one and stick with it.

He isn't either, but whatever gets you through the night............


I know the difference, this guy is a socialist bordering on Communism. Inform yourself.

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Socialism

It figures you jump in when you think you have help. You cant do it on your own as usual.

 

[Drew99GT]

Russian backed separatists have shot down 10 aircraft over the last half year, they tweeted and announced on VERIFIED/CONFIRMED social media outlets they set up themselves they shot down a plane the day MH17 was shot down, and now people are buying the BEE ESS conspiracies thrown out by Alex Jones or Russian media?

I have followed this story from the beginning and watched the conspiracies blossom from the usual sources. Reliable media were pointing out the weather the flight was diverted around about an hour after the incident!

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1022728/pg1

""The page has been posting for rebels affiliated with Strelkov for weeks, and has some 130,000 followers." So it's not some fake site, it's the real deal."

This [censored] about western intel or Ukrainians creating fake tweets etc. is verifiable GARBAGE. It's all cached online for anyone to see what the Rebels did and what they said the days before, the day of, and days after the shooting down of MH17.

If Russian (or anyone else for that matter) had 1 iota of reliable evidence this was done by the west or Ukraine, you don't think they'd be trotting it out by now?

What I can't understand is people siding with Russia over the United States, it's allies, and it's interests. Some of you guys seriously need to think a bit deeper about history and what the world would look like with a stronger Russia.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT

What I can't understand is people siding with Russia over the United States, it's allies, and it's interests.


Well, it turned out the most vocal pro-putin BITOG members are not americans but russians holding US visa. They said it themself. Apparently the nationalist fervor is at its highest in Russia (among other places).

BTW, it's more than 10 planes.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
...

I always appreciate when this kind of response to my comments are posted, it confirms that a certain protocol is used that is learned in training.

Common sense?


LMAO!!!

 

[Trav]

So what if they shot down 100 enemy planes, its a war or is it only a war when the rebels are ones the US supports like Syria and Libya?
If you want to accept facebook, twitter and youtube as proof knock yourself out.

Personally i think Europe would do far better in todays world with Russia as a strong trading partner.
That not so say i want to see a decline in the US but lets face it the US market is getting weaker by the day for Euro goods and the Russian market is growing.
The US is more interested in trading (one way) with China.

Euro goods are growing in demand in Russia and business will thrive.
A strong a vibrant Russia will be good for all of Europe without posing any threat to the US.
They have enormous mineral, metals and energy supplies that can only be of benefit to Europe as a trading partner.

IMO The Ukraine needs to be broken into 2 ethnic states (common in post Soviet Europe) and the US needs to stop threatening Russia with putting missiles right on its door step in Poland.
Taking the Crimea was an absolute must for Russian defense it cannot risk US missile cruisers and subs porting in their backyard.
When the USSR did that with the missiles in Cuba the Americans went mad. Its normal the Russians react the same way.

I am not pro/anti Russian, pro/anti Putin or pro/anti American.
I am against the current US regime and its leader that is using any crisis it can gin up or get behind to divert from crimes committed against its own people.
That in no way makes me anti American.

If Mr Putin wanted to take the Ukraine he would have done while Obama and UN were talking about what to do about it if he makes the move. He could have it in hours not even days.
He hasn't and i really cant see him doing it. What is it you people really want? A war with Russia?
Do you really want to escalate this to the point of launch? As i said before this is a regional and Euro problem let them handle it.

I have been called some homo sexual remarks, a racist and a few other things because i see a situation a differently and have a different point of view.
I am seriously disappointed that some of the members here feel the need to stoop that low although from a few its expected.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT

What I can't understand is people siding with Russia over the United States, it's allies, and it's interests.


Well, it turned out the most vocal pro-putin BITOG members are not americans but russians holding US visa. They said it themself.

No one said they are Russian or is me not being an American automatically make me a Russian?
I never said i had a Visa either i have a Green card which expires.

 

[dave1251]

You are right. Putin had to invade an sovereign country in Ukraine just like he did in Georgia to protect "Ethnic Russians."

Notice Putin did not use any military action while an pro-Russian government held power in Ukraine, once the majority of Ukrainians had enough of the pro-Russian government and thru demonstrations and protest removed the government that the majority of Ukrainians felt that did not represent them. After this the Russian land grab commenced.

It is OK for a pro-European union majority in Ukraine to have a government that does not represent them. An pro-Russian government minority in Ukraine has to be "protected" by the Russian Army. This makes perfect sense.

Trav also the straw that broke the camels back in Ukraine was the Ukrainian citizens wanted the executive branch of Ukraine to have less unchecked powers.

I maybe wrong but I believe from your past posts you would agree that the powers of government should be checked and balanced.

 

[LazyPrizm]

Oh nice, no-RSP is revoked? Somebody better call whine-1-1, it's going to be a noisy place in here for the next two years (and probably the 4 after that too, at least)!

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
I maybe wrong but I believe from your past posts you would agree that the powers of government should be checked and balanced.

Agree 100%
He did not grab the Ukraine. He grabbed the Crimea which was part of the USSR in 1921 and is important to the Russian military on the Black Sea.

Saying he grabbed the Ukraine is like saying the killer Whale tried to kill its trainer.
No trying about it, if it wanted to it would have in the blink of an eye.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: LazyPrizm
Oh nice, no-RSP is revoked? Somebody better call whine-1-1, it's going to be a noisy place in here for the next two years (and probably the 4 after that too, at least)!

Was just thinking the same thing. If this thread proves anything, it's that BITOG's mods no longer care.

 

[antiqueshell]

THE USA ATTACKED AND INVADED THE SOVERIGN NATION OF IRAQ, WHEN THAT COUNTRY POSED NO THREAT TO THE USA, AND US OFFICIALS KNEW THE ACCUSATIONS AGAINST IRAQ WERE LIES!

Pot meet kettle.

At least the Ukraine and especially Crimea are in the Russia sphere of influence.

The US has invaded, attacked or used their intel agencies to destablized or topple these sovereign nations' govts even though they posed NO threat to them.

Iran
Iraq
Libya
Nicarugua
El Salvador
Argentina
Chile
Afghanistan
Lebanon
Panama
Grenada
Cuba
Sudan
Viet Nam
Korea
........
more

Pot meet kettle.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Sure, USA did a lot of evil. Iraq is the best recent example. FYI, Korea was an UN mission, I thought everyone knew it?

But, is this an excuse for russians to do their atrocities?

Why don't you list all the countries Soviets/Russians invaded? If you don't, we will think you are just a paid russian troll.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Speaking of paid russian trolls. Interestingly, this was published in russia.

Quote:
Anonymous International last week uploaded hacked correspondence alleged to be between employees and their superiors at the Internet Research Agency, a secretive company based in the village of Olgino near St. Petersburg, which revealed its extensive pro-Kremlin activities on the Internet.

The correspondence showed that paid bloggers and commenters have been heavily used to infiltrate the Internet forums of Western media outlets and blogs, even posing as Westerners despite their writing hinting at their Russian background. It also showed increased activity during Russia’s annexation of Crimea in March and the pro-Russian separatist uprising in eastern Ukraine.

The Western media has expressed concern about pro-Kremlin commentators. In April, The Guardian newspaper ran a commentary by its readers’ editor Chris Elliott, called “The readers’ editor on… pro-Russia trolling below the line on Ukraine stories,” where he said that Guardian moderators, who deal with 40,000 comments a day, believed there was an orchestrated, pro-Kremlin campaign going on in the newspaper’s comments section.

This kind of phenomenon has been well known and documented in Russia since 2005, when the Kremlin reacted to the victory of the then Maidan protests in Kiev against the flawed presidential election. Dubbed the Orange Revolution, it led to a revote and the defeat of the Kremlin-backed candidate Viktor Yanukovych. Back then, Vladislav Surkov, dubbed the Kremlin’s grey cardinal by Western media outlets, met with Russian rock musicians in an apparent questioning of their loyalty, a number pro-Kremlin youth movements such as Nashi were launched and extensive work on the Internet began. Groups of paid bloggers were created in order to flood the Internet with pro-Kremlin and anti-American comments as well as to harass the critics of President Vladimir Putin by posting hateful comments and offensive, and often pornographic, images.

However, in the last few years, these paid bloggers have moved on to the international media and blogs.

The thousands of letters recently posted by Anonymous International contained instructions on how to behave on foreign forums and social networks, and how to plan campaigns and indoctrinate Western readers. The correspondence also contained passport scans of the employees and CVs, with at least one of them being a Russian living in Germany. In addition, it showed that a number of employers were hired in April after the military conflict in Ukraine had started.

One letter contained a task of creating 50 fake accounts on Facebook for posting pro-Kremlin and anti-American comments.

According to the MR7.ru website, the Internet Research Agency employs 300 people who write 100 comments a day each, mostly in Russian but also in English and Ukrainian, resulting in 30,000 postings daily.


http://sptimes.ru/index_bp.php?action_id=2&story_id=40009&section=74

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: dave1251
I maybe wrong but I believe from your past posts you would agree that the powers of government should be checked and balanced.

Agree 100%
He did not grab the Ukraine. He grabbed the Crimea which was part of the USSR in 1921 and is important to the Russian military on the Black Sea.

Saying he grabbed the Ukraine is like saying the killer Whale tried to kill its trainer.
No trying about it, if it wanted to it would have in the blink of an eye.


You enjoy rewriting history? Crimea was a territory of Ukraine when Ukraine became a country. Once foreign country invades a territory you are invading a country.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
THE USA ATTACKED AND INVADED THE SOVERIGN NATION OF IRAQ, WHEN THAT COUNTRY POSED NO THREAT TO THE USA, AND US OFFICIALS KNEW THE ACCUSATIONS AGAINST IRAQ WERE LIES!

Pot meet kettle.

At least the Ukraine and especially Crimea are in the Russia sphere of influence.

The US has invaded, attacked or used their intel agencies to destablized or topple these sovereign nations' govts even though they posed NO threat to them.

Iran
Iraq
Libya
Nicarugua
El Salvador
Argentina
Chile
Afghanistan
Lebanon
Panama
Grenada
Cuba
Sudan
Viet Nam
Korea
........
more

Pot meet kettle.

I am still waiting for your answer from a few days back.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Speaking of paid russian trolls. Interestingly, this was published in russia.

Quote:
Anonymous International last week uploaded hacked correspondence alleged to be between employees and their superiors at the Internet Research Agency, a secretive company based in the village of Olgino near St. Petersburg, which revealed its extensive pro-Kremlin activities on the Internet.

The correspondence showed that paid bloggers and commenters have been heavily used to infiltrate the Internet forums of Western media outlets and blogs, even posing as Westerners despite their writing hinting at their Russian background. It also showed increased activity during Russia’s annexation of Crimea in March and the pro-Russian separatist uprising in eastern Ukraine.

The Western media has expressed concern about pro-Kremlin commentators. In April, The Guardian newspaper ran a commentary by its readers’ editor Chris Elliott, called “The readers’ editor on… pro-Russia trolling below the line on Ukraine stories,” where he said that Guardian moderators, who deal with 40,000 comments a day, believed there was an orchestrated, pro-Kremlin campaign going on in the newspaper’s comments section.

This kind of phenomenon has been well known and documented in Russia since 2005, when the Kremlin reacted to the victory of the then Maidan protests in Kiev against the flawed presidential election. Dubbed the Orange Revolution, it led to a revote and the defeat of the Kremlin-backed candidate Viktor Yanukovych. Back then, Vladislav Surkov, dubbed the Kremlin’s grey cardinal by Western media outlets, met with Russian rock musicians in an apparent questioning of their loyalty, a number pro-Kremlin youth movements such as Nashi were launched and extensive work on the Internet began. Groups of paid bloggers were created in order to flood the Internet with pro-Kremlin and anti-American comments as well as to harass the critics of President Vladimir Putin by posting hateful comments and offensive, and often pornographic, images.

However, in the last few years, these paid bloggers have moved on to the international media and blogs.

The thousands of letters recently posted by Anonymous International contained instructions on how to behave on foreign forums and social networks, and how to plan campaigns and indoctrinate Western readers. The correspondence also contained passport scans of the employees and CVs, with at least one of them being a Russian living in Germany. In addition, it showed that a number of employers were hired in April after the military conflict in Ukraine had started.

One letter contained a task of creating 50 fake accounts on Facebook for posting pro-Kremlin and anti-American comments.

According to the MR7.ru website, the Internet Research Agency employs 300 people who write 100 comments a day each, mostly in Russian but also in English and Ukrainian, resulting in 30,000 postings daily.


http://sptimes.ru/index_bp.php?action_id=2&story_id=40009&section=74

Oh good lord have mercy. LOL
Yes BITOG has been infiltrated by paid Pro Russian posters from Germany.

 

[Trav]

Look Guys. Now i see this guy actually is looking for Russian posters posting and all sorts of crazy stuff i guess i will come clean.

This was nothing more than Devils advocate, pro-conta for me. I played it for entertainment purposes only
I usually don't get into topics like this either because i don't care of i don't know enough about it.
I told some friends by PM not to get into this because its just a laugh. We have been rolling with every page.
I wish i could day i'm sorry but it has been too a good laugh.

Some really good stuff was ginned up that never appeared in the thread like "my wall of greatness" but it may have driven some folks totally bonkers. It would have been great though, i sort of regret not using it.

I was in the middle of ginning up some new twist and turns but its gone too far.
I cant have friendly and a few other going to bed muttering that bastar.
trav is reporting back to vlad as he post.

Seriously though this is what happens when politics are discussed and some sod looking for some cheap entertainment because nothing is on TV gets involved.

Now the guys who knew can post.

 

[OVERKILL]

I was watching the hornet nest poking after our talks of you stirring it up a little in here, figuring that's about as far as you'd take it with the Obama and Putin stuff and then you posted the infowars (and associated) links and I was roaring over here! OMG! Playing into antiqueshell's conspiracy stuff AND using it as a reference was awesome.

I got a good chuckle out of it all bud

I know you wanted to take it further but I think you were definitely getting a few of the good folks on here a bit too wound up. Nice to end it now.

 

[Turk]

Yea, it was kinda fun while it lasted.

On to something more important, like, the IRS Scandal. Where's the Outrage??

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Look Guys. Now i see this guy actually is looking for Russian posters posting and all sorts of crazy stuff i guess i will come clean.

This was nothing more than Devils advocate, pro-conta for me. I played it for entertainment purposes only
I usually don't get into topics like this either because i don't care of i don't know enough about it.
I told some friends by PM not to get into this because its just a laugh. We have been rolling with every page.
I wish i could day i'm sorry but it has been too a good laugh.

Some really good stuff was ginned up that never appeared in the thread like "my wall of greatness" but it may have driven some folks totally bonkers. It would have been great though, i sort of regret not using it.

I was in the middle of ginning up some new twist and turns but its gone too far.
I cant have friendly and a few other going to bed muttering that bastar.
trav is reporting back to vlad as he post.

Seriously though this is what happens when politics are discussed and some sod looking for some cheap entertainment because nothing is on TV gets involved.

Now the guys who knew can post.


Nice job buddy. I was wondering when you'd come clean or the thread get locked. It was fun reading, and I'm glad I stayed out when it heated up. I have a feeling this thread will continue to take twists and turns w/o you or get locked anyway.