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#3433161 - 07/23/14 10:19 AM Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils.
Proxyon Offline


Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Europe
Hi folks.

I am new here. I am comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic engine oils available for the european market.

The first one is this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mobil-Formula-151054-Fully-Synthetic/dp/B004RCNOBO

It says FULLY SYNTHETIC down there.

And the other one is this:
http://www.amazon.de/Mobil-Formula-5W-30-Motor%C3%B6l-Liter/dp/B008EX7N78/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1405005590&sr=8-2&keywords=mobil1+5w30+esp

Which says SHC SYNTHETIC TECHNOLOGY

Apparently the first one is promoted on the UK market and the second one on the German.
I am puzzled, because it is the same brand, the same viscosity, the same production facility it was made and still there is a difference on the label. Is it the same oil under different description OR are there differences between the ingredients and the technology? Is SHC fully synthetic?

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#3433177 - 07/23/14 10:35 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Proxyon]
Darwin1138 Offline


Registered: 01/07/14
Posts: 258
Loc: Mexico City
In Germany only if the oils are from group IV you are allowed to call them "synthetic". Synthetic technology implies that the oil is a group III. In short both oils are the same and they are not fully synthetic.
_________________________
Self-Diagnosed Grumpy Old Crumudgeon

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#3433181 - 07/23/14 10:40 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Proxyon]
chrisri Offline


Registered: 06/01/14
Posts: 331
Loc: Fiume,Croatia,EU
They are both the same but in Germany they are not allowed to sell HC group III oil as full synthetic. This is not the case in rest of the world so elsewhere they sell them as synthetics. Would one consider groupe III oils as real synthetics is debatable. For sure they can perform good as PAO synthetics at lower price.
_________________________
99 FIAT Punto Sporting 16v (Mobil Super 3000x1 5w40)
06 FIAT Stilo MW 1.9 Multijet (Selenia WR 5w40)
93 Ford Escort 1.3 HCS (HDO 5w30)

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#3433185 - 07/23/14 10:47 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Proxyon]
Proxyon Offline


Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Europe
Thank you for the prompt responses, guys.
Here is the deal, I bought this oil for my 2009 Honda Accord (Acura TSX in America), 2.0l gasoline engine. The point is that if I knew it was not fully synthetic I could have gone with Mobil Super 3000 5w40. Now comparing the Mobil1 ESP 5w30 "fully synthetic" with the other Mobil products (and other brands as well) I feel I have paid too much for something that is not worth the money. Correct me if I am wrong.


Edited by Proxyon (07/23/14 10:48 AM)

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#3433204 - 07/23/14 11:13 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Proxyon]
chrisri Offline


Registered: 06/01/14
Posts: 331
Loc: Fiume,Croatia,EU
I'm using this Mobil Super 3000 x1 in wife's Punto, not a bad oil but M1 you bought is in a different league. M1 use some PAO in it's base oil even though it isn't full synthetic. If you want cheaper but great oil consider Shell helix ultra in the future.


Edited by chrisri (07/23/14 11:15 AM)
_________________________
99 FIAT Punto Sporting 16v (Mobil Super 3000x1 5w40)
06 FIAT Stilo MW 1.9 Multijet (Selenia WR 5w40)
93 Ford Escort 1.3 HCS (HDO 5w30)

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#3433222 - 07/23/14 11:29 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Proxyon]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25926
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Proxyon
Thank you for the prompt responses, guys.
Here is the deal, I bought this oil for my 2009 Honda Accord (Acura TSX in America), 2.0l gasoline engine. The point is that if I knew it was not fully synthetic I could have gone with Mobil Super 3000 5w40. Now comparing the Mobil1 ESP 5w30 "fully synthetic" with the other Mobil products (and other brands as well) I feel I have paid too much for something that is not worth the money. Correct me if I am wrong.

Pricing issues aside, the ESP is a low SAPS oil, required for modern diesel engines with DPF. Why would you even want it in your gasoline Accord to begin with?
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3433229 - 07/23/14 11:32 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: chrisri]
Proxyon Offline


Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Europe
So are you actually telling me that there is a real benefit in choosing M1 ESP "fully synthetic" instead of M3000 x1 that you use for your wife's car? Better for the car? Better milage? Postponed need for oil change? Change it on every 20000 kms instead of 10k?

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#3433230 - 07/23/14 11:34 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Quattro Pete]
Proxyon Offline


Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Proxyon
Thank you for the prompt responses, guys.
Here is the deal, I bought this oil for my 2009 Honda Accord (Acura TSX in America), 2.0l gasoline engine. The point is that if I knew it was not fully synthetic I could have gone with Mobil Super 3000 5w40. Now comparing the Mobil1 ESP 5w30 "fully synthetic" with the other Mobil products (and other brands as well) I feel I have paid too much for something that is not worth the money. Correct me if I am wrong.

Pricing issues aside, the ESP is a low SAPS oil, required for modern diesel engines with DPF. Why would you even want it in your gasoline Accord to begin with?


Because it was promoted in the German sites as "GREAT SYNTHETIC OIL" for both diesel and gasoline engines!

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#3433237 - 07/23/14 11:40 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Proxyon]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25926
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Proxyon
Postponed need for oil change? Change it on every 20000 kms instead of 10k?

Hardly. ESP has a lower add pack to protect DPF, so it won't last in service any longer than full SAPS oil. If anything, it'll actually be spent sooner.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3433239 - 07/23/14 11:40 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Proxyon]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25926
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Proxyon
Because it was promoted in the German sites as "GREAT SYNTHETIC OIL" for both diesel and gasoline engines!

Sounds like great marketing. smile
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3433242 - 07/23/14 11:41 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Quattro Pete]
chrisri Offline


Registered: 06/01/14
Posts: 331
Loc: Fiume,Croatia,EU
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Proxyon
Thank you for the prompt responses, guys.
Here is the deal, I bought this oil for my 2009 Honda Accord (Acura TSX in America), 2.0l gasoline engine. The point is that if I knew it was not fully synthetic I could have gone with Mobil Super 3000 5w40. Now comparing the Mobil1 ESP 5w30 "fully synthetic" with the other Mobil products (and other brands as well) I feel I have paid too much for something that is not worth the money. Correct me if I am wrong.

Pricing issues aside, the ESP is a low SAPS oil, required for modern diesel engines with DPF. Why would you even want it in your gasoline Accord to begin with?


Some Euro petrols required mid saps c2 oils, like newer FIAT petrols. Not sure about Honda though.
_________________________
99 FIAT Punto Sporting 16v (Mobil Super 3000x1 5w40)
06 FIAT Stilo MW 1.9 Multijet (Selenia WR 5w40)
93 Ford Escort 1.3 HCS (HDO 5w30)

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#3433243 - 07/23/14 11:42 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Quattro Pete]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1093
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Proxyon
Thank you for the prompt responses, guys.
Here is the deal, I bought this oil for my 2009 Honda Accord (Acura TSX in America), 2.0l gasoline engine. The point is that if I knew it was not fully synthetic I could have gone with Mobil Super 3000 5w40. Now comparing the Mobil1 ESP 5w30 "fully synthetic" with the other Mobil products (and other brands as well) I feel I have paid too much for something that is not worth the money. Correct me if I am wrong.

Pricing issues aside, the ESP is a low SAPS oil, required for modern diesel engines with DPF. Why would you even want it in your gasoline Accord to begin with?

Actually, ESP is recommended for all gasoline engines in the EU.
ULSG, tough emission standards etc.
For example, VW dealerships are using VW504.00/507.00 in all DI engines in EU.
With gas in EU, ESP will not have any issues.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3433244 - 07/23/14 11:43 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Proxyon]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1093
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Proxyon
Thank you for the prompt responses, guys.
Here is the deal, I bought this oil for my 2009 Honda Accord (Acura TSX in America), 2.0l gasoline engine. The point is that if I knew it was not fully synthetic I could have gone with Mobil Super 3000 5w40. Now comparing the Mobil1 ESP 5w30 "fully synthetic" with the other Mobil products (and other brands as well) I feel I have paid too much for something that is not worth the money. Correct me if I am wrong.

Where in Europe?
If it is EU, use it with no issues. What is oil change interval on that car?
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3433246 - 07/23/14 11:46 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: edyvw]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25926
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: edyvw

Actually, ESP is recommended for all gasoline engines in the EU.
ULSG, tough emission standards etc.
For example, VW dealerships are using VW504.00/507.00 in all DI engines in EU.

Yes, they do it to standardize and cover all their engines with a single spec. "One size fits all" kind of a thing, so that the dealership does not have to stock too many lubricants.

Quote:

With gas in EU, ESP will not have any issues.

I did not say he will have issues, but I wouldn't go out of my way and pay extra for it, because I don't think he'll gain much benefit in his gasoline Honda.

One thing this ESP does have going for it is very low NOACK though, so maybe that would help with oil consumption issues, if his engine experienced any.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3433249 - 07/23/14 11:48 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: edyvw]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25926
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: edyvw
If it is EU, use it with no issues.

That wasn't the question. The question was: was it worth the extra money compared to another M1 product?

_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3433255 - 07/23/14 11:49 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Proxyon]
chrisri Offline


Registered: 06/01/14
Posts: 331
Loc: Fiume,Croatia,EU
Originally Posted By: Proxyon
So are you actually telling me that there is a real benefit in choosing M1 ESP "fully synthetic" instead of M3000 x1 that you use for your wife's car? Better for the car? Better milage? Postponed need for oil change? Change it on every 20000 kms instead of 10k?

Well only if your Honda is spec'd for such oil. If Honda is spec'd for ACEA A3 then M1 0w40 is better version of Mobil 3000. What oil is spec'd for your car?
_________________________
99 FIAT Punto Sporting 16v (Mobil Super 3000x1 5w40)
06 FIAT Stilo MW 1.9 Multijet (Selenia WR 5w40)
93 Ford Escort 1.3 HCS (HDO 5w30)

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#3433260 - 07/23/14 11:52 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Quattro Pete]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1093
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
If it is EU, use it with no issues.

That wasn't the question. The question was: was it worth the extra money compared to another M1 product?


Well, IDK, up to him.
I would say Honda spec 5W30 oil in the EU, not sure is it ACEA A1.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3433263 - 07/23/14 11:53 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Quattro Pete]
Proxyon Offline


Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Proxyon
Because it was promoted in the German sites as "GREAT SYNTHETIC OIL" for both diesel and gasoline engines!

Sounds like great marketing. smile



Sounds like a real scam and legal money robbery!

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#3433265 - 07/23/14 11:55 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: edyvw]
Proxyon Offline


Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Proxyon
Thank you for the prompt responses, guys.
Here is the deal, I bought this oil for my 2009 Honda Accord (Acura TSX in America), 2.0l gasoline engine. The point is that if I knew it was not fully synthetic I could have gone with Mobil Super 3000 5w40. Now comparing the Mobil1 ESP 5w30 "fully synthetic" with the other Mobil products (and other brands as well) I feel I have paid too much for something that is not worth the money. Correct me if I am wrong.

Where in Europe?
If it is EU, use it with no issues. What is oil change interval on that car?


10 000 kms or one year whatever comes first. That is under normal operating conditions.

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#3433276 - 07/23/14 12:00 PM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Quattro Pete]
Proxyon Offline


Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
If it is EU, use it with no issues.

That wasn't the question. The question was: was it worth the extra money compared to another M1 product?



Yeah. That was the question. Because I was offered M1 0w40 "fully synthetic" again for even higher price. Since Honda Accord/Acura TSX recommends 5w20 I was a little afraid to go with that thicker oil. However, in Germany where I bought the car from they put 5w40 oil (in Honda dealerships). The explanation: "Well, here in Germany people drive really harsh on the highways, so speeds like 160 km/h are not something uncommon. Your Honda will have better protection if you use 5w40 oil instead of lower viscosity."
So I decided to be somewhere between. Even though now is a summer, temperatures go 30+ Celsius and perhaps 5w40 would have been a better choice.


Edited by Proxyon (07/23/14 12:00 PM)

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#3433280 - 07/23/14 12:01 PM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Proxyon]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1093
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Proxyon
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Proxyon
Thank you for the prompt responses, guys.
Here is the deal, I bought this oil for my 2009 Honda Accord (Acura TSX in America), 2.0l gasoline engine. The point is that if I knew it was not fully synthetic I could have gone with Mobil Super 3000 5w40. Now comparing the Mobil1 ESP 5w30 "fully synthetic" with the other Mobil products (and other brands as well) I feel I have paid too much for something that is not worth the money. Correct me if I am wrong.

Where in Europe?
If it is EU, use it with no issues. What is oil change interval on that car?


10 000 kms or one year whatever comes first. That is under normal operating conditions.

You can use ESP with no issues for 10K. What country? That is important bcs of fuel.
Also, what oil is recommended for TSX?
Also, ESP is not only Group III. Do not get stuck on SHC. ESP has mix of base oils including Group V.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3433286 - 07/23/14 12:06 PM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: edyvw]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25926
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Also, ESP is not only Group III. Do not get stuck on SHC. ESP has mix of base oils including Group V.

edy has a point here. Don't get hung up on the whole base oil classification (synthetic vs fake synthetic) because it doesn't mean much for the oil's actual performance. Focus on mfg specs that an oil meets. Do some more research and find out what your Honda calls for. You mentioned 5w-20, but that's just a grade. There is probably some more specs that go with it. Then choose an oil based on that. While those very high end M1 products won't hurt, they may just be unnecessary in your case and you could find a less costly oil that will do the job just fine.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3433348 - 07/23/14 01:10 PM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Quattro Pete]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1093
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Also, ESP is not only Group III. Do not get stuck on SHC. ESP has mix of base oils including Group V.

edy has a point here. Don't get hung up on the whole base oil classification (synthetic vs fake synthetic) because it doesn't mean much for the oil's actual performance. Focus on mfg specs that an oil meets. Do some more research and find out what your Honda calls for. You mentioned 5w-20, but that's just a grade. There is probably some more specs that go with it. Then choose an oil based on that. While those very high end M1 products won't hurt, they may just be unnecessary in your case and you could find a less costly oil that will do the job just fine.

I took some time and went to German Mobil1 web site.
I made assumption that OP's Honda has 2.0 i-VTEC engine and base on Mobil1 recommendation, this oil should be used:
Mobil1 0W30 Fuel Economy

As second option, Mobil recommends Mobil Super 3000 X1 FE, but that is step back from 0W30.
Same oils are recommended for 2.4i engine.

If it is DTEC engine, then use ESP according to Mobil.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3433356 - 07/23/14 01:16 PM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: edyvw]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25926
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: edyvw

I took some time and went to German Mobil1 web site.
I made assumption that OP's Honda has 2.0 i-VTEC engine and base on Mobil1 recommendation, this oil should be used:
Mobil1 0W30 Fuel Economy

As second option, Mobil recommends Mobil Super 3000 X1 FE, but that is step back from 0W30.

Thanks, so basically he needs an ACEA A1/A5 oil, in which case neither the ESP nor the Super 3000 5w-40 that he mentioned in his earlier post should be used.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

Top
#3433362 - 07/23/14 01:21 PM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Quattro Pete]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1093
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw

I took some time and went to German Mobil1 web site.
I made assumption that OP's Honda has 2.0 i-VTEC engine and base on Mobil1 recommendation, this oil should be used:
Mobil1 0W30 Fuel Economy

As second option, Mobil recommends Mobil Super 3000 X1 FE, but that is step back from 0W30.

Thanks, so basically he needs an ACEA A1/A5 oil, in which case neither the ESP nor the Super 3000 5w-40 that he mentioned in his earlier post should be used.


Yeah, I would go with 0W30.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3433388 - 07/23/14 01:35 PM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: edyvw]
Proxyon Offline


Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Europe
Thank you guys for your detailed answers.
Last question: Since I've already bought the M1 ESP 5w30 oil (though I haven't put it on the engine yet), should I return it for 0w30 or this one time I could go with the ESP?

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#3433391 - 07/23/14 01:36 PM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Proxyon]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1093
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Proxyon
Thank you guys for your detailed answers.
Last question: Since I've already bought the M1 ESP 5w30 oil (though I haven't put it on the engine yet), should I return it for 0w30 or this one time I could go with the ESP?

There is no damage to use ESP.
However, probably engine will feel sluggish a little, and consumption might go up.
Considering that you bought it on Amazon, I would return it and get 0W30.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3433414 - 07/23/14 01:49 PM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Proxyon]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25926
Loc: Michigan
Just use it. No big deal.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3433486 - 07/23/14 02:52 PM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: chrisri]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 9855
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: chrisri
I'm using this Mobil Super 3000 x1 in wife's Punto, not a bad oil but M1 you bought is in a different league. M1 use some PAO in it's base oil even though it isn't full synthetic. If you want cheaper but great oil consider Shell helix ultra in the future.


All M1 badged oils are a blend of base stocks to produce a superior overall base. All M1 badged oils have a base of several formulas, such as Grp3+, PAO, easters and such. Here is a link on esters.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Does_Mobil_1_Contain_Ester_Oil.aspx


Edited by tig1 (07/23/14 02:53 PM)
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 144,000 miles
M1 0-20
2007 Ford Focus 129,000 miles
M1 0-20
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF
M1 10-30 in all OPE

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#3437033 - 07/27/14 06:27 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: tig1]
rossn2 Offline


Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 332
Loc: Central Texas
Quote:
Hardly. ESP has a lower add pack to protect DPF, so it won't last in service any longer than full SAPS oil. If anything, it'll actually be spent sooner


Really? This is interesting due to the fact the ESP meets the new Ram 1500 Ecodiesel spec, and has to last 10k miles between oil changes..
_________________________
2014 Ram 1500 Quad Cab, 4x4, 3.55 rear, Ecodiesel V6
2013 Hyundai Elantra 4cyl
2013 CVO Ultra, '13 Tri Glide,'11 Electra Glide Limited,'08 Road King

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#3437055 - 07/27/14 07:02 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: rossn2]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25926
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: rossn2
Quote:
Hardly. ESP has a lower add pack to protect DPF, so it won't last in service any longer than full SAPS oil. If anything, it'll actually be spent sooner


Really? This is interesting due to the fact the ESP meets the new Ram 1500 Ecodiesel spec, and has to last 10k miles between oil changes..

My response was to the OP who has a gasoline engine. My comment does not apply to diesel engines that use ULSD fuel.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3437083 - 07/27/14 07:50 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Proxyon]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25926
Loc: Michigan
Besides, 10K miles isn't an overly long interval these days.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3437209 - 07/27/14 10:49 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Proxyon]
Proxyon Offline


Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Europe
I put the ESP, now I'll see how the engine goes. Still, I am a little concerned, perhaps for not choosing the best oil for a gasoline engine (I've heard about catalyst converter issues using ESP), but lets hope my Accord will like it. Will inform you how it goes with it.

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#3437213 - 07/27/14 10:55 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Quattro Pete]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1093
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: rossn2
Quote:
Hardly. ESP has a lower add pack to protect DPF, so it won't last in service any longer than full SAPS oil. If anything, it'll actually be spent sooner


Really? This is interesting due to the fact the ESP meets the new Ram 1500 Ecodiesel spec, and has to last 10k miles between oil changes..

My response was to the OP who has a gasoline engine. My comment does not apply to diesel engines that use ULSD fuel.

Yeah, but in EU they are using ULSG.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3437214 - 07/27/14 10:56 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Proxyon]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1093
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Proxyon
I put the ESP, now I'll see how the engine goes. Still, I am a little concerned, perhaps for not choosing the best oil for a gasoline engine (I've heard about catalyst converter issues using ESP), but lets hope my Accord will like it. Will inform you how it goes with it.

What kind of issues?
If anything, ESP should be better.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3437236 - 07/27/14 11:30 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: edyvw]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25926
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Yeah, but in EU they are using ULSG.

My comment still stands. Weaker add pack = shorter possible OCI. That doesn't meant that ESP can't handle 10K miles in Europe. All it means is that non-ESP full SAPS oil could handle an even longer OCI.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3437359 - 07/27/14 01:26 PM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: edyvw]
Proxyon Offline


Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 10
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Proxyon
I put the ESP, now I'll see how the engine goes. Still, I am a little concerned, perhaps for not choosing the best oil for a gasoline engine (I've heard about catalyst converter issues using ESP), but lets hope my Accord will like it. Will inform you how it goes with it.

What kind of issues?
If anything, ESP should be better.


Well, I became a little hesitant after some folks here asked me like: "Why did you choose ESP, it is mostly for diesel engines. You have better Mobil1 options for your gasoline engine." Not did they say it is bad for it, but I remained with the impressin that the ESP contains sulphur ingredients which are probably not the best alternative for a gasoline engine. I have the feeling the ESP is still OK, however not the best option.

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#3437388 - 07/27/14 01:48 PM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Proxyon]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25926
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Proxyon
I remained with the impressin that the ESP contains sulphur ingredients which are probably not the best alternative for a gasoline engine.

You've got it mixed up a little. It's the sulfur in gasoline that were were discussing, not sulfur in oil.

The problem with high sulfur in gasoline is that it can rapidly deplete additives in the oil, and since the ESP oil already starts with a reduced additive level, it may have its additives depleted sooner than a non-ESP (full SAPS) oil. Still, if you're not going to be running super long oil change intervals (like 20K miles), then no worries.

Besides, European fuel generally has very low levels of sulfur these days, so that's even less for you to worry about.

_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3437454 - 07/27/14 03:07 PM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Proxyon]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1093
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Proxyon
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Proxyon
I put the ESP, now I'll see how the engine goes. Still, I am a little concerned, perhaps for not choosing the best oil for a gasoline engine (I've heard about catalyst converter issues using ESP), but lets hope my Accord will like it. Will inform you how it goes with it.

What kind of issues?
If anything, ESP should be better.


Well, I became a little hesitant after some folks here asked me like: "Why did you choose ESP, it is mostly for diesel engines. You have better Mobil1 options for your gasoline engine." Not did they say it is bad for it, but I remained with the impressin that the ESP contains sulphur ingredients which are probably not the best alternative for a gasoline engine. I have the feeling the ESP is still OK, however not the best option.

ESP carries VW504.00 and 507.00 requirements. On is for diesel (507.00) one is for gasoline (504.00).
If you read on back of the bottle you will see that Mobil1 recommends that oil also for VW502.00 (which is requirement for older VW gasoline engines).
ESP has weaker additive pack, but also those additives that it has, are highly sophisticated. It is design to meet all emission standards in the EU, but also provide superb lubrication.
Where you got confused is that this is forum with the U.S. market in mind firstly. Those engines that are now on sale in the EU are also result of tough EU emission standards as well as very expensive gas. Since emission standards are tough, also EU dealt with gas manufacturers, so they are under strict rules what they can sell in the EU.
In the U.S. EPA is not as strict as the EU. Gas has much more sulfur, as well as corn ethanol. When that gas dilutes oil in new direct-injection engines, it simply starts to destroy additives in the oil, it degrades oil.
So in the U.S. drivers are still using old fashioned oils with full additive packs. Diesel is much better, so that is why VW, BMW, Mercedes etc are able to sell their diesel engines here and you can use oils such as ESP in those engines.
I use ESP in my VW CC, but I am still sending samples for lab tests because I am not sure how gas will affect oil. Also, I cut my OCI in half.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3437457 - 07/27/14 03:09 PM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Quattro Pete]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1093
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Yeah, but in EU they are using ULSG.

My comment still stands. Weaker add pack = shorter possible OCI. That doesn't meant that ESP can't handle 10K miles in Europe. All it means is that non-ESP full SAPS oil could handle an even longer OCI.


It could. Not sure also.
On CC 2.0TSI engine in Germany, OCI is 25K km, using VW 504.00.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3437458 - 07/27/14 03:11 PM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: edyvw]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25926
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: edyvw
On CC 2.0TSI engine in Germany, OCI is 25K km, using VW 504.00.

Yup. And maybe it could have been 35k km using VW 502.00. smile

I guess we'll never know.


_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3437514 - 07/27/14 04:15 PM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Quattro Pete]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1093
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
On CC 2.0TSI engine in Germany, OCI is 25K km, using VW 504.00.

Yup. And maybe it could have been 35k km using VW 502.00. smile

I guess we'll never know.



Agree, but those engines are design around Mid-SAPS and Low-SAPS oils, so using 502.00 would contribute to various issues, and some of them we are experiencing here.
So, yes, you could have longer OCI, but not worth of it.

In this case, nothing will happened, he just needs to switch to 0W30 after this OCI.


Edited by edyvw (07/27/14 04:30 PM)
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3437558 - 07/27/14 05:08 PM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: edyvw]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25926
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: edyvw
so using 502.00 would contribute to various issues,

What issues?

Quote:

In this case, nothing will happened, he just needs to switch to 0W30 after this OCI.

Agreed. I think we've all been saying this since the beginning, but somehow the OP became panicked.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#3437920 - 07/27/14 09:54 PM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Quattro Pete]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1093
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
so using 502.00 would contribute to various issues,

What issues?

Quote:

In this case, nothing will happened, he just needs to switch to 0W30 after this OCI.

Agreed. I think we've all been saying this since the beginning, but somehow the OP became panicked.

Well obviously carbon deposits. Also, cat converters have prolonged life span.
Not sure how it affects emissions, but I would say there i a catch there too.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (M1 0W40+Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 ESP 5W30+OEM Filter)

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#3440260 - 07/30/14 07:03 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Proxyon]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1704
Loc: London, England
Since putting Mobil1 5w30 ESP C3 in my Jag i have not had the DPF light on once.(the one that tells you to go for a run down the road at 40 mph or more for a few miles)

Engine sounds the same as it did before.

Performance is the same.

Fuel economy is the same.

The vehicle has used no oil whatsoever in the several thousand miles since i did it, including a rare period of long journeys and running almost continuously for 10/12 hours.

Citreon spec 5w30 C2/C3.

Jag spec 5w30 C1 for the same engine(it is a Citroen engine not Ford of Jag)

I have used Mobil Super 3000 X1 FE for many thousands of miles.

In Ford Mondeo diesels, Volvo V50 diesel, my Pathfinder diesel and a mates Honda CR-V diesel.

All have used little oil if any.

The V50 and Mondeo had more than 200k.

The Pathfinder is on 123k

The CR-V was on just under 70k.

The Jag is on 111k.

Money no object i would use ESP.

If on a budget i would happily use Mobil Super.

But i would not run Mobil Super much past 8k or so.
_________________________
06 Clio1.5DCi,133k 6kOCI Shell Extra 5w40
08 Pathfinder 2.5 Dci Sold with 125k
12 Jaguar XJL 3.0 D Luxury 118k 8kOCI Mob 1 ESP 5w30

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#3440450 - 07/30/14 10:25 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Proxyon]
riggaz Offline


Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 304
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: Proxyon
Thank you for the prompt responses, guys.
Here is the deal, I bought this oil for my 2009 Honda Accord (Acura TSX in America), 2.0l gasoline engine. The point is that if I knew it was not fully synthetic I could have gone with Mobil Super 3000 5w40. Now comparing the Mobil1 ESP 5w30 "fully synthetic" with the other Mobil products (and other brands as well) I feel I have paid too much for something that is not worth the money. Correct me if I am wrong.


You haven't paid too much for something that wasn't worth the money, it's a good oil for what it's designed for, there's just other oils out there for your application that cost less. ESP 5w-30 is a low ash, longlife oil which your engine doesn't require. Your engine (Honda R20A3 engine?) has some artistic licence apparently 0w-20/30/40 and 5w-30/40 with min specs of API SJ/ ACEA A3,A5 gives you loads of options.

Don't even worry about the whole group 3 (synthetic technology) vs group 4 (full synthetic) stuff, they are comparable performance wise, group 3's have better seal compatibility and better add pack compatibility. Group 4's just tend to have slightly lower pour points and higher flash points, the business end of an oil is in the add pack. The engine will outlive the electronics using either base oil wink


Edited by riggaz (07/30/14 10:26 AM)

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#3440466 - 07/30/14 10:45 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: Quattro Pete]
riggaz Offline


Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 304
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Weaker add pack = shorter possible OCI.


It's blended to be a very low oxidation oil I think so that it can do long OCI's

In Europe it (VW504.00 VW507.00) goes up to 20k intervals in VW petrol engines and up to 30k in VW diesel engines, you just need a new turbo at 150k wink

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#3440956 - 07/30/14 06:28 PM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: riggaz]
bigjl Offline


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 1704
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: riggaz
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Weaker add pack = shorter possible OCI.


It's blended to be a very low oxidation oil I think so that it can do long OCI's

In Europe it (VW504.00 VW507.00) goes up to 20k intervals in VW petrol engines and up to 30k in VW diesel engines, you just need a new turbo at 150k wink


In all honesty i have only heard of one person running the longlife service schedule on a Passat.

Only fleet managers are interested in the kind of cost savings they represent.

Also VW appear to quote 18k or 2yrs.

And they add caveats like covering more than 25 miles a day and use on longer journeys etc.

Fixed interval servicing every year is advised for those doing less than 10k a year.

The OCI on my Pathfinder is 18k (and i think 24mths) for example.

It had 90k on it at just over 3 yrs and had all services done by mileage. The actual vehicle drove round the M25 London orbital motorway twice a day from Crawley to Bluewater Shopping Centre and back. So was used in ideal conditions.

In the workshop manual it clearly states not tk run the oil for 18k in a vehicle used in severe service, which includes stop start urban running.

The only reason there are issues with long oci is when they are used wrongly.

Like leaving the oil in situ for 24months when the car is only ever used to do the school run.
_________________________
06 Clio1.5DCi,133k 6kOCI Shell Extra 5w40
08 Pathfinder 2.5 Dci Sold with 125k
12 Jaguar XJL 3.0 D Luxury 118k 8kOCI Mob 1 ESP 5w30

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#3442462 - 08/01/14 04:15 AM Re: Comparing two Mobil1 5w30 synthetic oils. [Re: bigjl]
riggaz Offline


Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 304
Loc: England
Quote:

In all honesty i have only heard of one person running the longlife service schedule on a Passat.

Only fleet managers are interested in the kind of cost savings they represent.

Also VW appear to quote 18k or 2yrs.

And they add caveats like covering more than 25 miles a day and use on longer journeys etc.

Fixed interval servicing every year is advised for those doing less than 10k a year.




Correct, most people driving VAG cars are on the wrong service schedule for their driving style.

Like you say variable servicing is for long distance, low load, gentle driving.

Fixed interval is for short distance, stop start, spirited and high load (towing) type driving


Edited by riggaz (08/01/14 04:16 AM)

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