Any additives that offer "the full package"
- Thread starter Shannow
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Originally Posted By: Shannow
They are different, in that they are basically cleaners and don't have things to prevent wear (except some chlorinated stuff in at least one), or resist acids.
Depending on whose analysis you use, MMO has a significant percentage of lightweight oil. From another thread, Rislone seemed to be mostly solvent - little or no lubricant. Seafoam is all solvent - basically a fuel system cleaner and/or fuel additive. You didn't include Z-max in your list but I think it is all lightweight oil. So, ranking these four from most lubrication to least, you might have Z-max, MMO, Rislone (?), and Seafoam.
They are different, in that they are basically cleaners and don't have things to prevent wear (except some chlorinated stuff in at least one), or resist acids.
Depending on whose analysis you use, MMO has a significant percentage of lightweight oil. From another thread, Rislone seemed to be mostly solvent - little or no lubricant. Seafoam is all solvent - basically a fuel system cleaner and/or fuel additive. You didn't include Z-max in your list but I think it is all lightweight oil. So, ranking these four from most lubrication to least, you might have Z-max, MMO, Rislone (?), and Seafoam.
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Lubeguard's engine oil additive. Lots of organic moly and other good stuff.
Originally Posted By: SuperDave456
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Lubeguard's engine oil additive. Lots of organic moly and other good stuff.
You mean the Bio-Tech?
http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-306/LUBEGARD+BIO-TECH+Engine+Oil+Protectant
I put Lubegard's Bio-Tech in my '98 Saturn SC2 Red Hot, along with PYB.
Shortly after, I absolutely noticed the engine "freed up", or rev'd up more free than it did before the Bio-Tech.
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Lubeguard's engine oil additive. Lots of organic moly and other good stuff.
You mean the Bio-Tech?
http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-306/LUBEGARD+BIO-TECH+Engine+Oil+Protectant
I put Lubegard's Bio-Tech in my '98 Saturn SC2 Red Hot, along with PYB.
Shortly after, I absolutely noticed the engine "freed up", or rev'd up more free than it did before the Bio-Tech.
Originally Posted By: Turk
Originally Posted By: SuperDave456
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Lubeguard's engine oil additive. Lots of organic moly and other good stuff.
You mean the Bio-Tech?
http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-306/LUBEGARD+BIO-TECH+Engine+Oil+Protectant
I put Lubegard's Bio-Tech in my '98 Saturn SC2 Red Hot, along with PYB.
Shortly after, I absolutely noticed the engine "freed up", or rev'd up more free than it did before the Bio-Tech.
It's a great product.
Originally Posted By: SuperDave456
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Lubeguard's engine oil additive. Lots of organic moly and other good stuff.
You mean the Bio-Tech?
http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-306/LUBEGARD+BIO-TECH+Engine+Oil+Protectant
I put Lubegard's Bio-Tech in my '98 Saturn SC2 Red Hot, along with PYB.
Shortly after, I absolutely noticed the engine "freed up", or rev'd up more free than it did before the Bio-Tech.
It's a great product.
Yes, demarpaint, it is.
Hey, I got 2,000 miles on the PYB + Bio-Tech & the oil is black.
This Saturn burns (at 3,200 RPM Freeway speeds) a 1/2 Qt. per 200 miles.
Less at lower speeds & RPM's.
Today, I'm going to add 1/3 bottle Seafoam to the oil, drive it, oh, 30 miles, then change the oil to 2 Qts. PU 5w-30 + 2 Qts M1-TDT 5w-40. I'm doing this for an experimental extreme ring cleaning.
Perhaps I should document this in a separate thread.....
Hey, I got 2,000 miles on the PYB + Bio-Tech & the oil is black.
This Saturn burns (at 3,200 RPM Freeway speeds) a 1/2 Qt. per 200 miles.
Today, I'm going to add 1/3 bottle Seafoam to the oil, drive it, oh, 30 miles, then change the oil to 2 Qts. PU 5w-30 + 2 Qts M1-TDT 5w-40. I'm doing this for an experimental extreme ring cleaning.
Perhaps I should document this in a separate thread.....
Originally Posted By: Turk
Yes, demarpaint, it is.
Hey, I got 2,000 miles on the PYB + Bio-Tech & the oil is black.
This Saturn burns (at 3,200 RPM Freeway speeds) a 1/2 Qt. per 200 miles.
Less at lower speeds & RPM's.
Today, I'm going to add 1/3 bottle Seafoam to the oil, drive it, oh, 30 miles, then change the oil to 2 Qts. PU 5w-30 + 2 Qts M1-TDT 5w-40. I'm doing this for an experimental extreme ring cleaning.
Perhaps I should document this in a separate thread.....
I bet the BEP did some cleaning. I also like your idea for extreme ring cleaning.
I'd start a new thread, hopefully it stays on topic, and people leave other additives etc, etc, etc, out of it. Maybe you should spell it all out in the beginning if you decide to start a new thread.
Yes, demarpaint, it is.
Hey, I got 2,000 miles on the PYB + Bio-Tech & the oil is black.
This Saturn burns (at 3,200 RPM Freeway speeds) a 1/2 Qt. per 200 miles.
Today, I'm going to add 1/3 bottle Seafoam to the oil, drive it, oh, 30 miles, then change the oil to 2 Qts. PU 5w-30 + 2 Qts M1-TDT 5w-40. I'm doing this for an experimental extreme ring cleaning.
Perhaps I should document this in a separate thread.....
I bet the BEP did some cleaning. I also like your idea for extreme ring cleaning.
I'd start a new thread, hopefully it stays on topic, and people leave other additives etc, etc, etc, out of it. Maybe you should spell it all out in the beginning if you decide to start a new thread.
Originally Posted By: Turk
Today, I'm going to add 1/3 bottle Seafoam to the oil, drive it, oh, 30 miles, then change the oil to 2 Qts. PU 5w-30 + 2 Qts M1-TDT 5w-40. I'm doing this for an experimental extreme ring cleaning.
I didn't know Seafoam was designed to put in oil. Maybe in your 1-quart-oil-per-400-mile Saturn it wouldn't matter.
If you really think your rings are stuck, have you considered some kind of 'piston soak'? There are numerous threads on this subject, describing methods, products, etc.
Today, I'm going to add 1/3 bottle Seafoam to the oil, drive it, oh, 30 miles, then change the oil to 2 Qts. PU 5w-30 + 2 Qts M1-TDT 5w-40. I'm doing this for an experimental extreme ring cleaning.
I didn't know Seafoam was designed to put in oil. Maybe in your 1-quart-oil-per-400-mile Saturn it wouldn't matter.
If you really think your rings are stuck, have you considered some kind of 'piston soak'? There are numerous threads on this subject, describing methods, products, etc.
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: Turk
Today, I'm going to add 1/3 bottle Seafoam to the oil, drive it, oh, 30 miles, then change the oil to 2 Qts. PU 5w-30 + 2 Qts M1-TDT 5w-40. I'm doing this for an experimental extreme ring cleaning.
I didn't know Seafoam was designed to put in oil. Maybe in your 1-quart-oil-per-400-mile Saturn it wouldn't matter.
If you really think your rings are stuck, have you considered some kind of 'piston soak'? There are numerous threads on this subject, describing methods, products, etc.
Yes, considered a lot of things...
Ended up putting Kreen in the oil, as I remembered I had lots of it.
Originally Posted By: Turk
Today, I'm going to add 1/3 bottle Seafoam to the oil, drive it, oh, 30 miles, then change the oil to 2 Qts. PU 5w-30 + 2 Qts M1-TDT 5w-40. I'm doing this for an experimental extreme ring cleaning.
I didn't know Seafoam was designed to put in oil. Maybe in your 1-quart-oil-per-400-mile Saturn it wouldn't matter.
If you really think your rings are stuck, have you considered some kind of 'piston soak'? There are numerous threads on this subject, describing methods, products, etc.
Yes, considered a lot of things...
Ended up putting Kreen in the oil, as I remembered I had lots of it.
It is, I've used their stuff before (MBL), and pretty sure that I have some of their grey grease still in the shed.
It performs well on the timken machine, but I'm not a fan of lead/copper particles in suspension. Only time I ever used it was on an engine that I'd built myself, expressly with a rope rear main.
It performs well on the timken machine, but I'm not a fan of lead/copper particles in suspension. Only time I ever used it was on an engine that I'd built myself, expressly with a rope rear main.
I have a question.
How can companies that have a very finite research and development department formulate an "all in one" additive that improves upon the many different formulations in automobile lubrication without degrading respective formula's?
Also this is accomplished in an premixed package and this package is sold to you at an very small cost.
How can companies that have a very finite research and development department formulate an "all in one" additive that improves upon the many different formulations in automobile lubrication without degrading respective formula's?
Also this is accomplished in an premixed package and this package is sold to you at an very small cost.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
How can companies that have a very finite research and development department formulate an "all in one" additive that improves upon the many different formulations in automobile lubrication without degrading respective formula's? Also this is accomplished in an premixed package and this package is sold to you at an very small cost.
You're confusing advertising hype with reality. Even a company with a very large R&D department would be challenged to accomplish this. To add to this difficulty is the simple fact that major oil companies or car makers do not agree among themselves as to what makes a good additive package, much less an 'all in one' additive.
Rather than looking for an 'all in one' additive (or searching for the Holy Grail), you might limit your search to solving a specific problem (which, of course, assumes you have a problem). For example, if you have oil seeping past your engine seals, there are additives which will 'swell the seals' and reduce the oil loss. You could also tear the engine apart and replace the seals.
If you are using oil past the rings, MoS2 products may help this. The same products may reduce parasitic heat loss and thereby prolong your oil life in an air cooled engine.
If your engine is burning valves, there are fuel additives such as MMO which may help with this issue. I could go on with this, but you get the idea.
Finally, if you do not have any automobile problems, just change your oil regularly, perform scheduled maintenance, buy good quality gasoline, live long and prosper.
---
Three old men were sitting on a park bench, exchanging stories. The first man said "I owe my 70 years to getting up early each day, doing an honest days work, getting a good night's sleep each night, and always being faithful to my wife!"
The second man pondered this a bit, then said "Yes, I've done those things as well. But, in addition, I avoided all tobacco, I ate a diet of cabbage and vegetables and drank nothing stronger than celery juice. That's the plan that has kept me going for 80 years!"
They turned to the third man, clearly the oldest looking of the three. He broke his silence and said "You know, I rarely went to bed before midnight and I never got up before noon. I smoked big black cigars and drank bourbon with every meal, and in between every meal as well. I never married but I tried to sleep with a different woman each night - can't even remember their names."
The first two men were shocked. One of them asked "By the way, how old are you?"
The third man answered "32"
How can companies that have a very finite research and development department formulate an "all in one" additive that improves upon the many different formulations in automobile lubrication without degrading respective formula's? Also this is accomplished in an premixed package and this package is sold to you at an very small cost.
You're confusing advertising hype with reality. Even a company with a very large R&D department would be challenged to accomplish this. To add to this difficulty is the simple fact that major oil companies or car makers do not agree among themselves as to what makes a good additive package, much less an 'all in one' additive.
Rather than looking for an 'all in one' additive (or searching for the Holy Grail), you might limit your search to solving a specific problem (which, of course, assumes you have a problem). For example, if you have oil seeping past your engine seals, there are additives which will 'swell the seals' and reduce the oil loss. You could also tear the engine apart and replace the seals.
If you are using oil past the rings, MoS2 products may help this. The same products may reduce parasitic heat loss and thereby prolong your oil life in an air cooled engine.
If your engine is burning valves, there are fuel additives such as MMO which may help with this issue. I could go on with this, but you get the idea.
Finally, if you do not have any automobile problems, just change your oil regularly, perform scheduled maintenance, buy good quality gasoline, live long and prosper.
---
Three old men were sitting on a park bench, exchanging stories. The first man said "I owe my 70 years to getting up early each day, doing an honest days work, getting a good night's sleep each night, and always being faithful to my wife!"
The second man pondered this a bit, then said "Yes, I've done those things as well. But, in addition, I avoided all tobacco, I ate a diet of cabbage and vegetables and drank nothing stronger than celery juice. That's the plan that has kept me going for 80 years!"
They turned to the third man, clearly the oldest looking of the three. He broke his silence and said "You know, I rarely went to bed before midnight and I never got up before noon. I smoked big black cigars and drank bourbon with every meal, and in between every meal as well. I never married but I tried to sleep with a different woman each night - can't even remember their names."
The first two men were shocked. One of them asked "By the way, how old are you?"
The third man answered "32"
You have written a very elaborate post without answering the question.
How can anyone formulate an engine oil additive that has an positive effect on machinery while not affecting the balance and performance many different lubrication formulations and functions?
You have stated this in your very long drawn out post. Formulators have different methodology for achieving a desired outcome. Thus each additive someone adds has a different reaction to the different bases and additives already in use by the variety of formulations used by each consumer.
Using a couple of additive examples does not answer the question.
How can anyone formulate an engine oil additive that has an positive effect on machinery while not affecting the balance and performance many different lubrication formulations and functions?
You have stated this in your very long drawn out post. Formulators have different methodology for achieving a desired outcome. Thus each additive someone adds has a different reaction to the different bases and additives already in use by the variety of formulations used by each consumer.
Using a couple of additive examples does not answer the question.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
You have written a very elaborate post without answering the question. How can anyone formulate an engine oil additive that has an positive effect on machinery while not affecting the balance and performance many different lubrication formulations and functions?
Easy. Use an additive with MoS2 - Molykote or Liqui-Moly MoS2 Anti-Friction. MoS2 additives have only positive results (unless you are concerned about oil coloration). MoS2 is quite inert so it does not interact with or mess up the additive package already in the oil. Very few additives or additive packages can say that.
Having answered your question, I note that you never indicated what you were trying to accomplish with the additive.
You have written a very elaborate post without answering the question. How can anyone formulate an engine oil additive that has an positive effect on machinery while not affecting the balance and performance many different lubrication formulations and functions?
Easy. Use an additive with MoS2 - Molykote or Liqui-Moly MoS2 Anti-Friction. MoS2 additives have only positive results (unless you are concerned about oil coloration). MoS2 is quite inert so it does not interact with or mess up the additive package already in the oil. Very few additives or additive packages can say that.
Having answered your question, I note that you never indicated what you were trying to accomplish with the additive.
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Easy. Use an additive with MoS2 - Molykote or Liqui-Moly MoS2 Anti-Friction. MoS2 additives have only positive results (unless you are concerned about oil coloration). MoS2 is quite inert so it does not interact with or mess up the additive package already in the oil. Very few additives or additive packages can say that.
Having answered your question, I note that you never indicated what you were trying to accomplish with the additive.
MoS2 is not inert. It contains Sulfur and Sulfur Dioxide(acidic) thus when exposed to the combustion process sulfuric acid is formed.
Also for MoS2 to effective it has to be part of the formulation. Once one part has exceeded the parameters for the formulation the performance of the formulation has become degraded not enhanced.
Easy. Use an additive with MoS2 - Molykote or Liqui-Moly MoS2 Anti-Friction. MoS2 additives have only positive results (unless you are concerned about oil coloration). MoS2 is quite inert so it does not interact with or mess up the additive package already in the oil. Very few additives or additive packages can say that.
Having answered your question, I note that you never indicated what you were trying to accomplish with the additive.
MoS2 is not inert. It contains Sulfur and Sulfur Dioxide(acidic) thus when exposed to the combustion process sulfuric acid is formed.
Also for MoS2 to effective it has to be part of the formulation. Once one part has exceeded the parameters for the formulation the performance of the formulation has become degraded not enhanced.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
MoS2 is not inert. It contains Sulfur and Sulfur Dioxide(acidic) thus when exposed to the combustion process sulfuric acid is formed.
Combustion process? What were you planning to do with this additive? What kind of engine? MoSw is stable up to around 350 degrees C in an oxidizing environment.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Also for MoS2 to effective it has to be part of the formulation. Once one part has exceeded the parameters for the formulation the performance of the formulation has become degraded not enhanced.
Where do you get this stuff? Powdered MoS2 will do the job. Molykote and Liqui-Moly are simply MoS2 powder in a thin oil suspension. Formulation? You've been reading too much Molakule.
MoS2 is not inert. It contains Sulfur and Sulfur Dioxide(acidic) thus when exposed to the combustion process sulfuric acid is formed.
Combustion process? What were you planning to do with this additive? What kind of engine? MoSw is stable up to around 350 degrees C in an oxidizing environment.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Also for MoS2 to effective it has to be part of the formulation. Once one part has exceeded the parameters for the formulation the performance of the formulation has become degraded not enhanced.
Where do you get this stuff? Powdered MoS2 will do the job. Molykote and Liqui-Moly are simply MoS2 powder in a thin oil suspension. Formulation? You've been reading too much Molakule.
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Where do you get this stuff? Powdered MoS2 will do the job. Molykote and Liqui-Moly are simply MoS2 powder in a thin oil suspension. Formulation? You've been reading too much Molakule.
First if I have a question that is best answered from a triobolgist the first call I am going to make is to Molakule.
The reply I have made to you can be verified by various papers from the S.A.E., GM, and the American Chemical Society.
Reading technical papers is not fun. The information is a lot closer to reality than the marketing of oil additive companies that are far from forthright about their products.
Where do you get this stuff? Powdered MoS2 will do the job. Molykote and Liqui-Moly are simply MoS2 powder in a thin oil suspension. Formulation? You've been reading too much Molakule.
First if I have a question that is best answered from a triobolgist the first call I am going to make is to Molakule.
The reply I have made to you can be verified by various papers from the S.A.E., GM, and the American Chemical Society.
Reading technical papers is not fun. The information is a lot closer to reality than the marketing of oil additive companies that are far from forthright about their products.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
The reply I have made to you can be verified by various papers from the S.A.E., GM, and the American Chemical Society.
Dave: Good luck on your project, whatever it is.
The reply I have made to you can be verified by various papers from the S.A.E., GM, and the American Chemical Society.
Dave: Good luck on your project, whatever it is.
JHZR2
Staff member
Back on track, to discuss the OP question.
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