The Fram HP1 is NOT just a PH8A with a heavy case...

[Big O Dave]

I just cut a virgin HP1 open, and it is quite the oil filter. It has, by far, the largest element surface area of all of the FL-1A and equivalents I have cut open, 385sq.in. The next best is the Purolator PureONE, with 354sq.in.

(So far I have opened 20 FL-1A equivalents [including a FL-1A]... I'm just waiting on two from Fleetguard before I post another update and pics.)

The HP1 also has, in my opinion, the best ADBV I've seen. It uses a very thick rubber (it appears to be silicone) piece, secured by a metal locator.

It has a lot of large holes in the steel center tube, so I imagine it flows pretty well.

The bypass is very similar to that of the TG8A, with a screen over it. The plastic valve itself is made of a different plastic, though, possibly nylon.

Yes, it does have the "cardboard" endcaps.

Not trying to start a controversy, here, but IMHO anyone using an HP1 or its fellow HP's need not fear that he/she is using an inferior filter... an expensive one, yes, inferior, no.

[ September 19, 2005, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: Big O Dave ]

 

[JAF]

Dave,

Thanks for the info. Very timely in fact. I have been searching for a replacement for my HP4. The one thing I like about the HP4 is does have a PSI relief value while most other Chevy filters do not (since Chevy blocks have a built in relief the filters do not need one). I am considering the Baldwin B279 but need to get some more information first. Not sure how much the "cardboard" end caps come into play. I think if they came with metal there would be a whole lot less finger pointing. I would be changing the filter with less than 1K (once a year) anyway. Just can't afford one to fail in that small period of time. Too much $$$ invested into the motor.

Do you have any pictures you could post or email to me?

THANKS!

 

[kanling]

I don't have a problem with cardboard end caps as a rule, either.

As long as the cardboard and epoxy is strong enough to hold the media in place it doesn't matter. I would expect the media to get sucked in before the end cap gives way. As long as that is true, cardboard end caps are plenty good enough.

Other deficiencies I am more critical of.

 

[Big O Dave]

quote:

---

Originally posted by JAF:
Not sure how much the "cardboard" end caps come into play.

---

I know this is heresy, but IMHO the "cardboard" endcaps are no big deal

, but then again, I'm not a filter expert.

I'll be posting photos of all the filters I've cut open, soon. I'm waiting to receive some Fleetguards to cut open and measure... once those are here, I'll put a report together, including photos, to post.

I'm glad the info about the Fram HP was helpful to you!

 

[Big O Dave]

This thread's not gonna fade away that easily...

 

[Gary Allan]

So essentially, the HP series is more media with the same "economical" construction of the standard Fram (which is what I saw when I cut one open) ..OH ..and a heavy can for those who probably don't have any extreme oil pressure

...

 

[Big O Dave]

Hey! Maybe the fiberboard endcaps are tougher...

The thing I really like about the HP1 is that if you like Frams, you get over twice as much Fram with the purchase of one HP1... think about it! Thick can, oodles of element media, even a screen over the bypass and a better plastic bypass valve... it's a PH8A and SO MUCH MORE!!

 

[D$]

Cardboard endisks are no big deal at all. They work just as well if not better than any metal endisk. Im sure cardboard and metal have been tested at research facilities across the country. If they really didnt work, then im sure the manufacturer wouldnt have used them. Does anybody know of cardboard endisks causing any problems on their vehicle? I personally have never had a problem with them and havent heard of any problems with them.

 

[T-Keith]

The cardboard endcaps are the big deal in this application. Unlike some other brands, Fram uses the endcap to center the ADBV in the can, and the ADBV seal against the cardboard. This allows the oil to bypass the whole filter by pushing in the ADBV. In the E-core the center tube is the main structural element, in Fram filters the element and cardboard endcaps are.

-T

 

[ediamiam]

In my application, I've used Fram HP1, Purolator L39001, and the Napa equivalent. With the Fram my oil pressure lights stays on much longer at cold startup than with the Purolator or Napa. I no longer use the Fram.

 

[D$]

I have a question for you T-Keith. I know FRAM uses the endisk to center the AD, but what does the E-core use? This is more of an issue with the AD then it is with the endisks. If the AD seals agains the metal endisks rather then cardboard, you still may run into the problem of the AD being pushed in. It can happen, no matter what the endisks are made of. You would have to use a different material for the AD in order for it to not get "pushed in." Has anybody ever heard of the AD being pushed in like that? I know I havent and I highly doubt that would happen. Please let me know any info you may have.

 

[T-Keith]

You can't end up with the ADBC pushed in on most filters because the endcap is INSIDE the ADBV. On the E-core the rubber is many times thicker because of the bypass valve built in. Also on other filters(including the E-core) the element(media, endcaps, and center tube) is solid and glued together. On the Fram the center tube is loose and the media has very little structure.

-T

 

[D$]

What are you talking about, the endcap? Im not clear on what you are talking about? There is no endcap on the FRAM models. Is there a need for a "endcap?" The element on a FRAM is not cheap my any means. Im sure this stuff is tested before they sell millions a year. SAE standards must be met before a filter can be released for production. FRAM along with every other filter manufacturer must meet these standards before a filter can be made.

 

[jsharp]

The Fram HP1 may have more media than a standard Fram, but the question is, what's the filtering ability of what's there. If it's like a Wix 51515R vs. their standard 51515, it's a poor choice for a street vehicle. The 51515R is sold for "Racing Applications Only" because the media is so porous...

Edit:

Actually Dave, you listed the problem with the HP1 in another thread -

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=002919

Single pass particle retention efficiency of the models is:


HP1 98% at 40 - 50 microns max flow 10 gpm

XG8A 96% at 10 - 20 microns max flow 3-4 gpm

TG8A 98% at 10 - 20 microns max flow 3-4 gpm

PH8A 96% at 10 - 20 microns max flow 3-4 gpm

PH977A 98% at 20 - 27 microns max flow 3 gpm


98% at 40-50 microns? That looks like inferior filtration to me. Not on my street vehicles thank you...

[ November 01, 2005, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: jsharp ]

 

[D$]

Explanation of the previous data: The HP1 is a racing filter. This filter is not made to have a high efficiency, but rather a high flow. If you notice, flow is much higher than the other filters. If the efficiency was higher, the flow would decrease dramatically and no oil would get to your engine. Youre right, the HP1 is not for street vehicles and is not recomended for street vehicles. Also, the oil in racing engines is changed more often, so efficiency is not as important as street vehicles.

 

[Gary Allan]

(nasal passages flaring here --sniff ..sniff)

D$ - you don't happen to have a paycheck that comes from the #1 marketed filter in the American cosumer market, do you??

 

[D$]

If you look through some other threads you will find this information. That is where I got the information from. Also, it is on the box. Plus, I didnt think I said anything that you would have to work there to know. Some common sense stuff if you think about it. As for FRAM, I do believe they make a good filter and I do agree with the fact that it may be priced a little high, but as the saying goes, "you get what you pay for."

 

[Big O Dave]

My point in posting about the HP1, in the first place, was that it is not simply a PH8A with a thicker cannister. It truly is different, using more media, better ADBV and better bypass. I did not state it was a wonderful street filter, but that anyone using one could be sure it's not an inferior filter.

And, as has been pointed out above, it is in the class of other racing filters, such as the 51515R.

Again, it is false to say that the HP1 is simply a PH8A in a stronger cannister (no offense intended, Gary!).

That was, and is, my point.

 

[Gary Allan]

None taken.

As I said, it "appears" to be the same lame stuff that you pay too much for already with a regular Fram (paraphrased).

D$ = although everything you said (all except you get what you pay for) is apparently true. You have not answered the question

(shh quietly acknowledging a well constructed dodge - no, not the car

)

[ November 02, 2005, 04:37 AM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]

 

[Mr Nice]

Big O Dave,

Can you post pictures of the HP1