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#3430545 - 07/20/14 07:39 PM Running conventional in newer Euro cars
KenO Offline


Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 1300
Loc: Auburn, GA
Obviously, I know this could certainly pose warranty issues, but - if changed with a proper OCI, how bad could it really be? I ask because where I work (national auto parts chain) people buy the cheapest stuff to put in their new BMW's, turbo VW's, etc. all day long. Personally, I don't see a major issue, as long as it's a proper grade and it's being changed in a reasonable amount of time, for your average joe streetcar driver. They do enough stupid things to their cars that make me not want to be a 2nd/3rd owner as it is.
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1995 Volvo 960 ShagginWagon
1995 BMW 328ti
1997 Chevy C2500 5.7l V8
1998 BMW 528i

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#3430550 - 07/20/14 07:42 PM Re: Running conventional in newer Euro cars [Re: KenO]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 8707
Loc: Barberton,Ohio
I wouldn't want to in a turbo/supercharged engine, if its not forced induction, and not extended oci.. might be ok.

FI, esp turbo engines can put ALOT of heat in the oil.. and the oil also lubes the turbo.. Going with a non spec oil could spell major $$$$ 20000 or 30000miles later.


Edited by Rand (07/20/14 07:44 PM)
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#3430551 - 07/20/14 07:43 PM Re: Running conventional in newer Euro cars [Re: KenO]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1548
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: KenO
Obviously, I know this could certainly pose warranty issues, but - if changed with a proper OCI, how bad could it really be? I ask because where I work (national auto parts chain) people buy the cheapest stuff to put in their new BMW's, turbo VW's, etc. all day long. Personally, I don't see a major issue, as long as it's a proper grade and it's being changed in a reasonable amount of time, for your average joe streetcar driver. They do enough stupid things to their cars that make me not want to be a 2nd/3rd owner as it is.

Very bad idea!
They either do not know anything about possible consequences or they are just ignorant.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (Pentosin 5W40+OEM-Mann)
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#3430554 - 07/20/14 07:44 PM Re: Running conventional in newer Euro cars [Re: KenO]
simple_gifts Offline


Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 9790
Loc: Middlesex County CT
Problem is "the reasonable amount of time" might not be since they aren't using the proper oil to begin with. If they don't know what to put in, how do they know the proper time to change it?
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#3430562 - 07/20/14 07:49 PM Re: Running conventional in newer Euro cars [Re: simple_gifts]
sicko Offline


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 1569
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Problem is "the reasonable amount of time" might not be since they aren't using the proper oil to begin with. If they don't know what to put in, how do they know the proper time to change it?



This. Especially if they're following a OLM (or OCI) that's set for synthetic.

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#3430565 - 07/20/14 07:53 PM Re: Running conventional in newer Euro cars [Re: sicko]
KenO Offline


Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 1300
Loc: Auburn, GA
Originally Posted By: sicko
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Problem is "the reasonable amount of time" might not be since they aren't using the proper oil to begin with. If they don't know what to put in, how do they know the proper time to change it?



This. Especially if they're following a OLM (or OCI) that's set for synthetic.


Oh definitely. I meant going say, 3-5k miles on conventional. For somebody thats not tracking their car, chances of them really stressing the engine are minimal. Yes, I get the turbo cars will have special applications, but other than flooring it from a stoplight, most people aren't really spooling the [censored] out of their turbo's and creating max heat either.

EDIT: I'm not trying to say I condone their actions, but - when you deal with the general public that not only is NOT into cars (or oil), nor is willing to spend the money to do it right - what do you think when you see that?


Edited by KenO (07/20/14 07:55 PM)
_________________________
1995 Volvo 960 ShagginWagon
1995 BMW 328ti
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1998 BMW 528i

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#3430574 - 07/20/14 08:00 PM Re: Running conventional in newer Euro cars [Re: KenO]
SilverC6 Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 2188
Loc: Southeast
You have to think a non-Euro M1 5W-30 EP would do okay in shorter OCI's.

Of course, if you're at Wallyworld buying the M1 5W-30 EP, just grab the cheaper M1 0W-40 like you should.
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#3430580 - 07/20/14 08:06 PM Re: Running conventional in newer Euro cars [Re: KenO]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1548
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: KenO
Originally Posted By: sicko
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Problem is "the reasonable amount of time" might not be since they aren't using the proper oil to begin with. If they don't know what to put in, how do they know the proper time to change it?



This. Especially if they're following a OLM (or OCI) that's set for synthetic.


Oh definitely. I meant going say, 3-5k miles on conventional. For somebody thats not tracking their car, chances of them really stressing the engine are minimal. Yes, I get the turbo cars will have special applications, but other than flooring it from a stoplight, most people aren't really spooling the [censored] out of their turbo's and creating max heat either.

EDIT: I'm not trying to say I condone their actions, but - when you deal with the general public that not only is NOT into cars (or oil), nor is willing to spend the money to do it right - what do you think when you see that?

Problem is where I do not understand those people is; how you think you will save money when M1 or Castrol 0W40 in Wal Mart is like $25. They buy BMW 328i, but save on oil. No sense.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (Pentosin 5W40+OEM-Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 0W40+OEM-Mann)

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#3430584 - 07/20/14 08:08 PM Re: Running conventional in newer Euro cars [Re: KenO]
simple_gifts Offline


Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 9790
Loc: Middlesex County CT
This is your BMW

This is your budget Peak 5W-30 in a blue jug.

This is your BMW on budget Peak...... any questions?
_________________________
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2006 B2300;94K;ALM

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#3430591 - 07/20/14 08:18 PM Re: Running conventional in newer Euro cars [Re: KenO]
Ram01 Offline


Registered: 10/13/10
Posts: 725
Loc: New York Queens
If your leasing a euro vehicle then sure use a cheap oil. Let the 2nd owner deal with the problems they better get an extended warranty . If not shame on them

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#3430592 - 07/20/14 08:20 PM Re: Running conventional in newer Euro cars [Re: simple_gifts]
KenO Offline


Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 1300
Loc: Auburn, GA
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
This is your BMW

This is your budget Peak 5W-30 in a blue jug.

This is your BMW on budget Peak...... any questions?



Like I said - happens EVERY day. Working in the parts business makes me facepalm daily. That, and all the people buying the cheapest, [censored] brake pads too, along with not replacing the rotors - even after they'd grooved the rotors up good metal to metal. Always get the excuse that either they're selling the car soon and don't care, or they don't need anything high end, the cheap ones 'work just fine'. smh
_________________________
1995 Volvo 960 ShagginWagon
1995 BMW 328ti
1997 Chevy C2500 5.7l V8
1998 BMW 528i

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#3430611 - 07/20/14 08:40 PM Re: Running conventional in newer Euro cars [Re: KenO]
barkingspider Offline


Registered: 12/22/13
Posts: 705
Loc: socal
I work w a guy who drives a 3 series BMW, non turbo. I thinks it's a 2003. He uses synthetic 5w30 and 10w30 with 5000 mile oci. His car runs fine, but I wouldn't use non spec oil in my wife's BMW.
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#3430632 - 07/20/14 08:55 PM Re: Running conventional in newer Euro cars [Re: KenO]
wemay Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 3662
Loc: Florida
Will something catastrophic happen? Probably not. But if something does, they earned it by not following specs.
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14 Sonata 2.4, RT5 10w30 80% / FS syn 5w20 20%
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#3430671 - 07/20/14 09:13 PM Re: Running conventional in newer Euro cars [Re: wemay]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 1548
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: wemay
Will something catastrophic happen? Probably not. But if something does, they earned it by not following specs.

Yeah actually it could happen very easily.
My friend had Audi A4 1.8T. Changed oil in those 10min oil changes, since in his words "is cheaper $30 then in dealership." I told him that he needs to run specific synthetic oil, but he said: well they put synthetic M1 (probably 5W30).
Well, at 80K sludge bomb happened, turbo got deprived of oil, which actually completely destroyed engine.
Euro turbo's are running HOT, really HOT. Not all synthetics are good enough, not to mention conventional oil.
_________________________
10' VW CC 2.0T (Pentosin 5W40+OEM-Mann)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (M1 0W40+OEM-Mann)

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#3430709 - 07/20/14 09:40 PM Re: Running conventional in newer Euro cars [Re: wemay]
sicko Offline


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 1569
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: wemay
Will something catastrophic happen? Probably not. But if something does, they earned it by not following specs.


Sadly, they earned it, but they probably wont learn from it. They'll blame the car manufacturer, the oil manufacturer, or the shop they take their car to for oil changes, but they'll never accept any blame themselves. These are probably the same people you see who say things like "Never buy a [insert euro car manufacturer here], they last just long enough to get out of the warranty and then break down."

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#3430713 - 07/20/14 09:46 PM Re: Running conventional in newer Euro cars [Re: KenO]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 35554
Loc: New Jersey
Modern specs have gotten more robust, this means synthetics too. But the oil temps seen in some vehicles means that a more oxidation-resistant lube is necessary. Grp III and III+ are likely more than good enough with the right chemistry add packs, but II+ and below likely aren't, so that would be my concern.

Time at temperature = oxidation and degradation.

Also, one would have to find the appropriate spec, such as ACEA A3, which is not easy to find in a typical viscosity conventional.

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#3430719 - 07/20/14 09:49 PM Re: Running conventional in newer Euro cars [Re: KenO]
Lolvoguy Offline


Registered: 02/06/14
Posts: 445
Loc: Canada
I'm actually amazed that ALL the newer turbo econo and mid size cars haven't had more engine/turbo failures when running regular oil. I mean, regardless of the technology of these newer cars, they run much hotter and are under a lot of stress that their NA predecessors weren't. I'd be interested to see how they stand the test of time.

I remember in the early 80's with Saab and Volvo being the major users of turbo's on gasser engines, these turbo setups would usually last about 100k miles then a new turbo was in order, regardless of how much you maintained them.
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07 Focus ZX4 SES - Automatic
88 325is - 5 speed manual

Originally Posted By: Clevy

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#3430748 - 07/20/14 10:20 PM Re: Running conventional in newer Euro cars [Re: KenO]
redhorse554 Offline


Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 78
Loc: so cal
how about the customer that buys one quart at a time until the red light goes out. never pulls the dip stick.
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'97 ford f-150 4x4(lubro 5w40)
'02 yam road warrior(motul 15w50)
'04 bmw r1150rt(motul 15w50)
'10 bmw x5m(ultra 5w40)
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#3431431 - 07/21/14 05:29 PM Re: Running conventional in newer Euro cars [Re: KenO]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9874
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
There is no problem per se running a conventional motor oil if shorter oil change intervals are maintained but the motivation to use a dino is initial cost savings and no one is thinking it through that a shorter OCI may be required.
What is most likely is that those going cheap on using a Dino are more likely to not check the oil level and will delay having the oil changed as required.
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74 Lotus Europa 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S TGMO 0W-20 25%/M1 0W-40
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#3431761 - 07/21/14 10:44 PM Re: Running conventional in newer Euro cars [Re: KenO]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12612
Loc: Chicago, IL
Unless of course the motor was designed and engineered around synthetic oil, as Doug Hillary has alluded to...
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2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
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