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#3425960 - 07/15/14 08:57 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Volvohead]
whip Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 1569
Loc: ohio
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Any competent driver at the track does NOT want stability controls going.

If F1 and other racing series didn't ban it, I guarantee every team would use traction and stability control. Are F1 drivers not competent?

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#3425972 - 07/15/14 09:07 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
MCompact Offline


Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 1775
Loc: KY
An F1 car on the track is infinitely different with respect to acceleration, cornering, and braking forces.
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1995 318ti Club Sport
1975 2002A
2007 Mazdaspeed3
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1996 Speed Triple

Hers:
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#3426153 - 07/16/14 04:54 AM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: whip]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15181
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Any competent driver at the track does NOT want stability controls going.

If F1 and other racing series didn't ban it, I guarantee every team would use traction and stability control. Are F1 drivers not competent?


Seems they might be better than most, eh?

And imagining that any competent driver doesn't want any help getting a faster lap? When your car has a specific tuned suite of integrated systems that can signal you well before you can FEEL anything that traction loss is imminent you can learn to drive faster and smoother. I repeat that these systems vary wildly from mfgr to mfgr, and even from model to model within lines of cars.

Some of us of course are already professionals, or at least imagine they are...
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#3426204 - 07/16/14 06:43 AM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
Pop_Rivit Offline


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 3603
Loc: Midwest
Any vehicle is only as safe as the driver. Some of us have had half a century of safe driving in all types of weather, without the aid of traction and stability controls.

Unfortunately we have a large driver skill disparity on the roads today, and vehicles have been mandated to try to keep the poor drivers safer, and protect the rest of us from both the poor drivers and the race driver wannabe's who think that the roadways are their personal race track.

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#3426205 - 07/16/14 06:43 AM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
Eddie Offline


Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 6771
Loc: Florida, Cape Coral
For the average daily driver I believe it is a much safer vehicle and even for the "experts" who occasionally get distracted :-)). Ed
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#3426223 - 07/16/14 07:05 AM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: thescreensavers]
SHOZ Offline


Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 1807
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: thescreensavers
I keep it on in any car I drive on the street, on the Track yea you have to turn it off.

I have plenty of Auto Cross Experience to correct and I keep the systems on. I understand how it intervenes, I understand when it can intervene and I use it as an extension for car control.


I do not understand people who turn it off every time they drive for no reason other than to turn it off.

Even if you know how to correct overseer...understeer...etc its just easier to leave the system on as it can correct more efficiently(stopping individual wheels) and faster then you can, and most importantly with much less needed space.


I have a Hyundai Genesis Coupe with the ESC. The only time I turn it off is when I;m on the track. It really helps in snow when the tail end starts to go out on you. There are many stories of those who turn it off then spin out on went roads because they don't know how to drive or don't know the car's potential.

It does intrude on the impromptu WOT blast though when you shift. frown

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#3426317 - 07/16/14 09:10 AM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
MCompact Offline


Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 1775
Loc: KY
I have been pleasantly surprised by how unobtrusive the stability control system is on my Mazdaspeed. It's so good that I usually leave it on when I'm running on a wet track.
_________________________
Mine:
1995 318ti Club Sport
1975 2002A
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1996 Speed Triple

Hers:
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Son's
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#3426338 - 07/16/14 09:33 AM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
MCompact Offline


Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 1775
Loc: KY
I read an interesting article about possible future implementations of automotive stability control systems. Supermaneuverable aircraft such as the Eurofighter Typhoon and the F-22 Raptor are inherently unstable; they cannot be flown without assistence from the flight computers. I'm simplfying this a great deal but in essence the instability of the aircraft is what allows them to have supermaneuverable abilities. The article went on to discuss whether similar principles could be applied to cars. One example I could think of would be a car like the original 911 Turbo(930), which was notorious in many quarters for its lift throttle oversteer. Perhaps a sophisticated stability cotrol system would allow the vehicle to rotate faster about its yaw axis wihout loss of control or over-rotation.
Food for thought, anyway...
_________________________
Mine:
1995 318ti Club Sport
1975 2002A
2007 Mazdaspeed3
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1996 Speed Triple

Hers:
2009 328i

Son's
2004 X3 2.5

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#3428791 - 07/18/14 09:03 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: MCompact]
artificialist Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 6899
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: MCompact
One example I could think of would be a car like the original 911 Turbo(930), which was notorious in many quarters for its lift throttle oversteer. Perhaps a sophisticated stability cotrol system would allow the vehicle to rotate faster about its yaw axis wihout loss of control or over-rotation.
Food for thought, anyway...

Mitsubishi called their system "AYC" Active Yaw control on some versions of the EVO, and called it "Super AWC" Super All Wheel Control on the Evo X. It is supposed to stop that problem, but because I have never driven an Evo, I'm not sure how well it works. The US Evo 8 and 9 didn't have it, so I am even less likely to drive a car with that system.
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#3428875 - 07/18/14 10:18 PM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
Doog Offline


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 3469
Loc: Ohio
I like all of the new vehicle technology improvements. My first car was a 1960 Ford Sunliner. Single master cylinder braking system. 352 Marauder V8. 3 speed auto trans.

We have come a long way from those days.
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#3429001 - 07/19/14 05:53 AM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
rjundi Offline


Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 6362
Loc: New England
It can in specific situations.

Last winter we got nasty black ice in a 3 way interesection in front of my house. No one stops and then takes a 90 turn sometimes with speed. For those who do not know black ice is in patches and hidden from eye and typically random on a otherwise perfect appearing road with otherwise great traction.

Guess which vehicles went straight into the snow bank vs making(albiet still close) the corner? Anything older hit the snow bank while modern/luxury car just rounded the corner without serious drama.

It helps.
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#3430882 - 07/21/14 07:32 AM Re: Traction control/ stability control safer car? [Re: Corollaman]
leeharvey418 Online   content


Registered: 08/05/11
Posts: 647
Loc: Southeast Michigan
I always find it fascinating that whenever one of these threads breaks out, the person wailing the loudest about how worthless stability control systems are doesn't know the difference between stability control and traction control.

They might use practically all of the same components, but stability control and traction control are not the same thing.
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