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#3427470 - 07/17/14 11:51 AM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 17383
Loc: Iowegia - USA
A suggestion:

Let's take any MTF fluid questions or comments over to the transmission fluid thread:
Forum
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#3427656 - 07/17/14 03:07 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
vintageant Offline


Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 328
Loc: Florida, USA
Thank you, MolaKule!
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#3464214 - 08/25/14 03:51 AM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: vintageant]
ChiaroBlue Offline


Registered: 07/22/14
Posts: 19
Loc: Scandinavia, Europe
Have you all already read this paper from 2013?:

http://www.mdpi.com/2075-4442/1/4/95/pdf (Nanomaterials in Lubricants: An Industrial Perspective on Current Research)

The text below from page 97 is alarming, in particular if the conclusion also applies to Millers NT motor oils (containing IF-WS2):

"IF-WS2 is marketed as the EP/AW additive for engine oils, gear lubricants and greases [4], yet its applications so far are very limited. Among the chief limiting factors is the uncertainty about the health safety and environmental (HSE) profile of fullerenes. IF-WS2 also has issues with copper corrosion and poor oxidation stability. As a result, IF-WS2 fortified engine oils are likely to fail the International Lubricants Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC) GF-2 Sequence L38 and GF-3 Sequence VIII tests.

Changes in various performance characteristics of a motor oil due to deployment of IF-WS2 in formulation are shown in Figure 2. Modest improvements (outward arrows) in wear protection (for direct-acting valve trains) and fuel economy are outweighed by degradation (inward arrows) in such pivotal properties as corrosion protection, with a specific risk for main bearing corrosion, oxidative thickening, and emission system durability. IF-WS2 doped oils may cause severe damage to engines with Nikasil cylinder bore coatings, and offer no advantage whatsoever for engines with Alusil bores and roller-follower valve trains."


Edited by ChiaroBlue (08/25/14 03:56 AM)

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#3464442 - 08/25/14 12:52 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
DrAdmin Offline


Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 73
Loc: Ontario,Canada
" may cause severe damage... "

an article theorized about Inorganic fullerene-like (IF) nano-particles and nano-tubes of WS2; not a WS2 bricks

chemical and lubrication effect is a differ for nano-particles and not well studied.

article itself is some squeeze from reference materials; and words for nicasil damage doesn't have any reference link. The information looks very subjective

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#3464472 - 08/25/14 01:54 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
alternety Offline


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 155
Loc: Pacific NW
Hmmm. I wonder if they have emptied their wet blanket closet with this article.

Interesting read. I am not qualified to really comment on it. I would like to note that the Millers Oil is certified for sale in US and Europe. I don't have the knowledge to relate that to the standards for which they feel it would not qualify.

Some people I have seen tout the Fullerene like materials as lubricating like ball bearings. I have never felt that was a correct view of the IF WS2. I believe it is more the shearing of the Fullerenes and the resulting surface attachment of the resultant much smaller WS2 particles. This is just my gut. Remember, I am not an oil person.

I do share the concern for long term environmental impact of nano-particles. Even just personal exposure of the raw materials. Our track record in identifying long term problem materials has not been very good.

It would really be interesting to see a paper from Millers Oil or the manufacturer in Israel about these issues.

I have the feeling we will see some comments from people who know more then I.

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#3464885 - 08/25/14 09:53 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 8752
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
paging; 67King!
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#3464909 - 08/25/14 10:29 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
GaleHawkins Offline


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 584
Loc: Murray KY USA
Since we know there are no additional additives required in today's motor oil to functionally increase engine life I would want any new additive proved well before using it. I am talking about non turbo engines. Taking 1.4L engines and getting more HP out of then a 454 Chevy is technology that I do not understand very well at all. smile

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#3464945 - 08/25/14 11:13 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: GaleHawkins]
123Saab Offline


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1376
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Since we know there are no additional additives required in today's motor oil to functionally increase engine life I would want any new additive proved well before using it. I am talking about non turbo engines. Taking 1.4L engines and getting more HP out of then a 454 Chevy is technology that I do not understand very well at all. smile


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_in_Formula_One
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#3465467 - 08/26/14 03:39 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
DrAdmin Offline


Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 73
Loc: Ontario,Canada
"no additional additives required in today's motor oil" - oh absolutely smile
Walmart shelf #5 - labeled as "Ideal oil for everything" smile

An each formulation is a tradeoff between many points in a final product, including a price for a product. some additives can definitely improve even a good product, due to product should have a competitive price.

or buy Xenum WRX 7.5W40 per $50 per 1 liter (quart)

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#3465898 - 08/26/14 10:56 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 17383
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Quote:
some additives can definitely improve even a good product, due to product should have a competitive price.


Which ones show any efficacy and how much should you add? ???
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We have to stop saying: "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are seeing that as a challenge. smile


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#3466414 - 08/27/14 02:08 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: MolaKule]
ChiaroBlue Offline


Registered: 07/22/14
Posts: 19
Loc: Scandinavia, Europe

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#3466525 - 08/27/14 04:07 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
alternety Offline


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 155
Loc: Pacific NW
Now that is a nice piece of work. It pretty much demonstrates most of what I have been saying for a long time. Kills my perception that exfoliation of the basic Fullerene shape is the primary lubricating mechanism; got to change my mental store to ball bearings. Although they did mention chunks filling holes after being sheered off the Fullerenes.

ChiaroBlue, that link should be posted in the MS2 thread subject matter. If you don't want to do it, send a PM and I will. Thanks for posting it.

Did anyone here attend that meeting? If you have, some feedback from the audience would be nice.


Edited by alternety (08/27/14 04:08 PM)

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#3466569 - 08/27/14 04:49 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
DrAdmin Offline


Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 73
Loc: Ontario,Canada
"Which ones show any efficacy and how much should you add?"
double-double same as Canadian Tim Horton coffee smile smile
in fact you you nailed me, I cant say any

but:
I may assume an acoustic noise of the working engine do indicate efficiency of lubrication process; and additives run mostly efficient on a boundary lubrication. in assumption lower noise == lower friction; and subconscious filling from car response I can only judge.

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#3466655 - 08/27/14 06:04 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
DrAdmin Offline


Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 73
Loc: Ontario,Canada
is seems i have an answer for efficiency and use additve in overall.

I may assume additive a primary function (what we expecting here) is as a friction modification.

in this document (and i have no evidence not to trust it)
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/g3115.pdf
"Four-Ball Wear Test" indicated a significant differences ( relatively to scale) in wear protection. Adding additive we sliding to the best level possible or choosing a oil where friction modificator exist. (test as an example as "test" regardless it applicability to a real life)

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#3466735 - 08/27/14 07:26 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
alternety Offline


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 155
Loc: Pacific NW
Huh?

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