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#3429230 - 07/19/14 11:19 AM Re: Ecoboost or Not. [Re: sciphi]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9613
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Turbos have been around for a long time. I'd trust a major OEM like Ford to get it right, especially in a truck.


I would not trust that just because Ford did it it will be done right. True Turbo has been around a long time, it been done in Europe for decades.
The difference is most older units and aftermarket kits are a little further downstream where they run slightly cooler.

You would think that Honda would get the VCM down pat but even after almost 10 years they made a nightmare even worse. Or..
Ford, GM and Chrysler after building some of the best transmissions in the world the TH400, C6, 727, would know enough about how to build one stronger than a wet noodle they put in some late model vehicles

Piston slap issues from many major manufacturers? You would think they know enough to fit a piston in a hole properly.
There are so many examples of major manufacturers engineering failures you could fill a book.

Just because a major manufacturer does something means nothing about it being done right IMO.
I wouldn't trust ecoboost with DI further than i can throw the truck this early in life.
_________________________
ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.

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#3430111 - 07/20/14 11:35 AM Re: Ecoboost or Not. [Re: Trav]
Volvohead Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 3519
Loc: SE Pa
If they pilfered Volvo's turbo expertise, it will likely be a more durable setup.

But my opinion on passenger vehicle gasoline turbos is that high mileage ones, even if well-designed, are hen's teeth unless meticulously maintained. And that includes more than oil changes. It's the nature of the beast.

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#3430602 - 07/20/14 08:30 PM Re: Ecoboost or Not. [Re: Volvohead]
rationull Offline


Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 2660
Loc: California, USA
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
If they pilfered Volvo's turbo expertise, it will likely be a more durable setup.

But my opinion on passenger vehicle gasoline turbos is that high mileage ones, even if well-designed, are hen's teeth unless meticulously maintained. And that includes more than oil changes. It's the nature of the beast.


What, specifically, more than oil changes is required in your opinion in order to get good longevity out of one?

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#3431046 - 07/21/14 11:32 AM Re: Ecoboost or Not. [Re: tangojetta]
Fatboymoe Offline


Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 465
Loc: Stockton, Ca.
I have a 2012 F 150 Lariat and couldn't be more happy. I can consistently beat the fuel economy numbers, especially the highway numbers. It very easy to get an honest 24+ MPG cruising at posted speeds.

My truck has 33k and is completely stock except for the dual Moroso oil catch cans that I installed. I never disconnected anything in the PCV system. I just ran both driver's side and passenger side breather systems into the catch cans before returning the oil vapor to the intake manifold. My intercooler hoses were mostly dry inside and I want to keep them that way.

Changed the spark plugs at 30k just to be on the safe side. I bought the Motorcraft plugs from O'Reilly's. They cost $26.09 with tax for 6 and they are SP-534, CYFS-12Y-T3 Iridium. All the installed plugs gaps were over .040. The new ones were all .030. It took about an hour. This was more a preventative action than anything. I never had the problems some have had with the dreaded shudder and limp mode stalling.

I have the full service contract from the dealer and change the oil every 5k, using Motorcraft full synthetic 5w30 and the Motorcraft filter. I also have the 100k extended warranty through Ford.

Most of the internet problems with the 3.5L EcoBoost engines are in high humidity climates. In these cases, in IMHO, the intercooler actually works too good and allows water collection in the cooler itself. Full throttle and too much water in the intercooler from driving in high humidity conditions is a potential problem. I live in the central valley of California and don't have this problem. Some of the factory fixes are covering up some of the intercooler and some ECU changes. I don't have any of these.

I am sure there were some teething problems with this platform. DI engines have their own set of problems. So far, I am a very happy EcoBoost owner..
_________________________
2012 Ford F-150 Lariat, 3.5L Eco-Boost
2003 HD FatBoy
2014 Honda Accord EX-L 2.4

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#3431088 - 07/21/14 12:19 PM Re: Ecoboost or Not. [Re: rationull]
Volvohead Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 3519
Loc: SE Pa
Originally Posted By: rationull
What, specifically, more than oil changes is required in your opinion in order to get good longevity out of one?


What else? Just off the top of my head:

Cooling system. Coolant levels must be very carefully observed, and coolant quality cannot deteriorate. Even a slightly low coolant level can result in a cylinder or head failure under higher boost levels, particularly with any deckless block design.

Fuel system. Injectors must be kept near maximum efficiency, or misfires will result. Partial injector clogs or any other fuel system deficiency resulting in a lean fuel mixture can result in quickly overheating the combustion chambers, and causing damage. This demands more regular fuel filter replacements and complete fuel system cleaning.

Ignition. Spark plugs must be more regularly inspected and changed than in a NA engine, or misfires and detonation will quickly result. Turbos are more sensitive to spark plug selection, and some behave badly with plugs that an NA version would be fine with. Coils must be more regularly tested for minimum HV levels or spark blowouts can more frequently occur. In older designs, this extends to more regular replacement of cap/rotor/wires.

Vacuum line maintenance. Vacuum line integrity is much more critical on a turbo engine, as leaks anywhere in the system can result in boost and wastegate irregularities that can reduce performance or cause damage. Higher underhood temperatures are much harder on vacuum lines/fittings - and all other components - in a turbocharged engine compartment.

Sensor and control valve maintenance. TCVs and wastegates must be periodically checked and adjusted or replaced if out of spec. A malfunctioning TCV or wastegate can result in no boost, or excessive boost, or boost spikes, and engine damage. A sensor failure mode in a turbo is more pronounced than with an NA engine. When a sensor failure occurs in most modern turbo engines, the ECM will often - but not always - drop into limp home mode. When it does not, there is trouble. Boost irregularities and spikes can also excessively wear or damage transmissions and other driveline elements over time.

Intake tract. Intercoolers must be regularly inspected for road impact damage and pressure leaks, as do all pressurized intake lines and connections. Many turbocharged engines will oil soak intake hoses, requiring more regular cleaning and replacement. None of this equipment is present on a NA engine.

Turbocharger maintenance. Turbocharger oil and coolant lines and fittings must be regularly inspected for leaks, which do occur due to the very high ambients in that area.

Heat shield and hood liner maintenance. Some turbos (depending on placement) can overheat the hood or firewall (affecting coatings and shielded components) if heat shields and hood liners are allowed to fail or degrade.

This is in addition to the common need for higher than average quality fuels and oils.

There's more to keep an eye on, but I'm pressed for time today.

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#3432505 - 07/22/14 04:42 PM Re: Ecoboost or Not. [Re: tangojetta]
sciphi Online   content


Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 8428
Loc: Upstate NY
Guide to getting high mileage from a gas turbo: maintain it like a BITOG'er!
_________________________
2009 Honda Fit Sport
2012 Chevrolet Cruze Eco

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#3433918 - 07/23/14 10:25 PM Re: Ecoboost or Not. [Re: Volvohead]
rationull Offline


Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 2660
Loc: California, USA
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Originally Posted By: rationull
What, specifically, more than oil changes is required in your opinion in order to get good longevity out of one?


What else? Just off the top of my head:

...


Ok .. good list.

Originally Posted By: sciphi
Guide to getting high mileage from a gas turbo: maintain it like a BITOG'er!


Hah!

I gotta admit, it's not so much that I was thinking turbo engines didn't need any attention, but I was not really taking into account the idea that you could really ignore lots of that stuff on naturally aspirated engines smile

A lot of those items are much less likely to be a problem on modern, well designed turbo vehicles I would think. How often do wastegates really need adjustment? How often would a modern, stock turbo car actually cause hood/firewall paint damage due to excess heat?

Fair point about coolant maintenance, higher quality fluids, and having the extra piping and intercooler to inspect. However plenty of non-turbo cars have components with extra piping (e.g. oil coolers) or just poorly laid out mechanicals that can lead to problems too.

Aside from shorter maintenance intervals (oil, spark plugs) I'm just not convinced that the "average" driver of a turbo vehicle (including the millions of turbo diesels on the roads in addition to the various gas turbo cars that have been around for years) really does much more to keep their vehicles running. Maybe they do suffer earlier failures, I don't know.

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#3454847 - 08/13/14 09:03 PM Re: Ecoboost or Not. [Re: tangojetta]
tangojetta Offline


Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 204
Loc: MN
Ended getting non ecoboost Flex.
_________________________

06 Ford Freestyle awd ltd

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